Question Advice for a Noob UST/VSQx maker?

[Scarlet Illusion]

I've been wanting to get into making my own UST/VSQx's for a while, and I've been working on one currently using the Freq tracer plugin (basically vocalistener, but for UTAU wit some differences). Freq tracer doesn't do too shabby of a job in my experience so far despite the "acapella" I've been using not being very clean or noise free, but I thought I might ask for some advice on making things anyways.

My biggest difficulties are finding key and finding the tempo. The last few times I tried making a VSQx on my own, the notes were severely off key. I can tune fine, but making stuff from scratch is entirely different. I'm not particularly adept at pitch detection, or keeping a tempo.

I've received advice before saying to make MIDI in a DAW instead of using Freq. Tracer, but I've tried that, and as stated above, my notes ended up off key, so...

Also, I can't tap along with the rhythm to find the tempo because I'm always way off and I don't know when to start tapping to the rhythm. XD

Any suggestions or advice?

 

[Twillby]

Two programs that have helped me are Virtual DJ and Wavetone. In VirtualDJ you can drag and drop songs into the program and it'll tell you the key and tempo; it’s not always perfect but it still works as a starting point. Wavetone lets you see all the frequencies in a sound file. I use it just to try to get a feel for the shape of the melody but you can also make midis in it (there's a bit of tutorial here).

 

[Leon]

I'd love some advice too tbh. I usually end up looking up a tempo, or else tap the beat out on one of those sites that gives you the tempo of whatever mouse clicks you're doing, and wait till it gets about steady, or take an average of the little variances (like if something wavers between 118 and 122 you can usually assume it's 120-ish). Then I import a wav and just do everything by ear. I'm actually good at getting pitches by ear, but the timing always takes me forever. I hear people import midis to base their VSQs on, but I'm not sure how -- do they find midis of just the vocal track only?

I feel like I should know these things by now asdlfj;saf

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

Ahh! Thank you so much! I'm gonna try those out ASAP!

Edit: Thanks to both of you for the advice!

 

[___]

I hear people import midis to base their VSQs on, but I'm not sure how -- do they find midis of just the vocal track only?

I search for the vocal part in the midi and yes, it is tedious ( for nood like me at least )

Btw for tempo I use this site.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

I search for the vocal part in the midi and yes, it is tedious ( for nood like me at least )

Btw for tempo I use ths site.

Thank you!

Also, I used to try and use MIDI, until I realized after doing an entire cover based on MIDI is that sometimes the MIDI is tedious to work with. XD (Especially when there's heavy usage of "ん" in the song. The midi's I've seen usually make words like "san" one note, so you have to split it to add in the "n" part.)

 

[___]

Thank you!

Also, I used to try and use MIDI, until I realized after doing an entire cover based on MIDI is that sometimes the MIDI is tedious to work with. XD (Especially when there's heavy usage of "ん" in the song. The midi's I've seen usually make words like "san" one note, so you have to split it to add in the "n" part.)

You're welcome!

And yea I totally get you, MIDIs can really be a pain to convert to vsq/ust but I personally do it bc that person who made the MIDI definitely did a better job at everything than I could ( as of right now )

 

[Älfa Dröttning]

I usually use a metronome that has tap tempo (Korg TM 50), so there’s no delay between me pushing the tempo button and the machine recording it. Then I play the song in one ear and listen to the metronome at the same time and adjust the tempo from there. Hitting the play button on both at the same time can be difficult, though.

As for pitch, my method is a combination of ear training and educated guessing. It’s helpful to learn what different intervals sound like. For learning intervals, I have a list of songs where I know what the melody sounds like off the top of my head and I use that. The easiest one for me to remember off the top of my head is “Here Comes the Bride”. The interval when singing that lyric is a perfect fourth. I use the first interval Miku sings in “I Thought I Was an Angel” for minor thirds. By using intervals you don’t really need to know what key you’re in, although knowing the key, or at least being able to identify where do is, is very helpful. If you get one pitch correct, then you can use intervals to figure out the rest of them.

Alternatively, you could do a ton of ear training on musictheory.net and get better at identifying notes that way.

I basically just do everything by ear. The only thing that I found difficult (aside from tuning, which is still difficult) when I first started making VSQxs was notating songs where the eighth note is swung, but once I realized that you can use triplets to get that effect it became way easier.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

Thank you for the advice!

 

[Vegetaljuce]

I always sound like an idiot when making VSQs because my method for pitch-matching is:

1. Listen to the original to find the part I'm doing
2. Using that as reference, start humming the correct pitch
3. Switch back to the VSQ (humming the whole time) and start mashing random keys on the side piano until one matches the pitch I'm humming.

As for tempo, I also do what @Leon recommended. But for timing individual notes, I still really struggle with that if the song has anything but an extremely regular note pattern, so that's usually the part that leaves me tearing my hair out. One thing I've found that can help with that is making sure you have your minimum note length & quantization set to something higher, like 1/16th, if you're someone who usually has it set way down to like 1/64th for tuning purposes. It just helps you with guessing bc most of the time the notes aren't going to vary by 64ths, you know what I mean?

And also, I should mention, a good way to check your work is to (after you have the tempo properly set on your VSQ!) import a .wav of the original song onto a new track in the vocaloid editor, match up the starting of the first vocal notes in your VSQ and imported .wav, and hit play with both being audible at the same time. That way, you can clearly hear any discrepancies. I nearly always do this.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

That is really great advice! Thank you!

 

[WyndReed]

For the bpm I usually use the tap feature in reaper and then adjust from that by ear, but sometimes when I'm stuck I actually count out the beats in Audacity. What I do is I open the track in audacity, highlight 20 seconds of the track(preferably starting a little before the beat), count the beats within that section and then multiply by 3. Usually I can get pretty accurate results this way. Something else I do is move the track so that a peak(not sure if this word is correct) which corresponds with a beat lines up with where the tempo says the beat is and then look at subsequent beats to see if they are correct as well. Sometimes this is hard in tracks with vocals, so I normally use instrumental tracks for this. I did a quick graphic of what I'm talking about since my brain isn't working right now. ( that is Jingle Bells ga Tomarenai with bpm set to actual 240 and incorrect 200)

As for pitch I have no help. I do it by ear and move a note around until it sounds right. Something you might want to look into is vocal isolation. It helps to clearly hear the vocals when making harmonies.

 

[Leon]

@Vegetaljuice that is really good advice, especially the bit about changing the lengths to 1/16 for making VSQs instead of the 1/64 for tuning. I'm gonna try that next time, thank you!

(And to everyone else as well, all the advice here is lovely <3)

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

For the bpm I usually use the tap feature in reaper and then adjust from that by ear, but sometimes when I'm stuck I actually count out the beats in Audacity. What I do is I open the track in audacity, highlight 20 seconds of the track(preferably starting a little before the beat), count the beats within that section and then multiply by 3. Usually I can get pretty accurate results this way. Something else I do is move the track so that a peak(not sure if this word is correct) which corresponds with a beat lines up with where the tempo says the beat is and then look at subsequent beats to see if they are correct as well. Sometimes this is hard in tracks with vocals, so I normally use instrumental tracks for this. I did a quick graphic of what I'm talking about since my brain isn't working right now. ( that is Jingle Bells ga Tomarenai with bpm set to actual 240 and incorrect 200)

As for pitch I have no help. I do it by ear and move a note around until it sounds right. Something you might want to look into is vocal isolation. It helps to clearly hear the vocals when making harmonies.

Thank you! I especially appreciate the advice about using an instrumental instead of an on vocal track!

 

[Cyana]

Tempo tapping websites like ones linked above are great for finding tempo, but if you have trouble knowing where to start tapping, you want to listen to the kick drum or the snare drum (if the track has those... can be harder for ballads, etc).

Dance music for example often has the kick drum playing on every beat, so just tap along with the kick and you'll be fine.

For more syncopated kick patterns (like in rap beats for example), you want to listen for the snare, which will usually play on beats 2 and 4. If you tap along with only the snare, multiply the result by 2 to get the bpm. Or, if you can pick the 1 and 3 beats between 2 and 4 as well, you'll be good.

Music without drums, (or music that isn't written in 4/4 time, but these are pretty rare in popular music), takes a bit more practice to count tempo. You need to kind of feel for where the "strong" beat is amongst the instruments - that will be your 1 beat. If you get stuck with these I'd recommend practicing counting on tracks with drums until you get a better feel for the "pulse" of music. It comes pretty naturally once you get the hang of it, so don't give up!

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

Oh, that's extremely helpful! Thank you so much! :D

 

[IanGillan]

For the bpm I usually use the tap feature or bpm analyzer