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Mixing Hatsune Miku vocals?

CdrSonan

Passionate Fan
Sep 12, 2019
107
Hello!
In short, I'm looking for tips on how to mix vocals sung by Hatsune Miku.
I've been making original songs for quite some time now, using different Vocaloids, and also other engines. As a result, I think I have gotten good enough at mixing vocals, but there's one exception. Miku.
I'm using Miku V4 English, but compared to the others, her voice just never seemed to fit as well into my songs. It's a bit as if Miku was singing a different song than the instruments are playing.
Now, I have several Miku songs on my channel, but it always feel like I have to completely mangle her vocals with EQ and then drown the mistakes in reverb to make her sound decent.
For my latest song, I tried a different approach. Instead of trying to morph Miku's voice in a way that fits the instrumental, I designed the entire instrumental to fit Miku's voice. I think it worked, but I don't want to adopt this approach for all Miku songs in the future because I don't want to limit myself in such a way.

So do you have any tips for mixing Hatsune Miku in particular, or things you do differently when mixing her compared to other Vocaloids?
I think it's somehow related to her voice color... But then again I'm completely fine with Rin.
Any help is appreciated!
 
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AALLF

I create symphonic metal/rock using Gumi.
May 20, 2020
95
United States
www.youtube.com
Hey, I just listened to your 2020 Miku Expo song, and it sounds good to me. Any advice I could give is just for "sweetening". I don't have Miku (I only have Gumi English), but I think a lot of vocaloids, at least the earlier ones, have similar "issues" with the overall frequency response. At least, what we are used to hearing nowadays with vocals in pop recordings.

One thing I noticed in your song, is there is a lot of upper-mid energy in Miku's voice (around 800-1k, I think) which I hear in a lot of other songs. Maybe try bringing some of that down with a parametric EQ. Then, try to balance the overall level again, or add some 2-4k with a parametric, or +10k with a high shelf for air. That's what I do with Gumi, and it helps a lot.

Another problem with vocaloids I've noticed, is the frequency response can radically change from note to note. I've mitigated this myself as much as I can with EQ, then going into a multiband compressor with 2 compressors for each band, then EQ again and ANOTHER compressor. Then, even some EQ or vocal level automation on certain notes when needed. It takes so much time to make it perfect, that I normally just set the EQ and Compression, forget EQ automation, and just nudge the level every now and then. Knowing how my mind works, I would obsess over it, so I just set and forget for the most part.

I don't use Miku, but that's my best advice I can give based on my work with Gumi, and listening to many other vocaloid songs.

Vocaloids are a pain to work with :LOL:. That much I'm sure.
 
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CdrSonan

Passionate Fan
Sep 12, 2019
107
Thanks for the advice!
In that song, I indeed boosted the range around 1kHz, and it also was for "sweetening". I tried boosting the 2-5kHz range as well when I was testing different EQs, but the frequency response there was extremely inconsistent, and I couldn't easily get rid of that problem. Using compression on this range only always seemed to make it either too loud or not loud enough for certain notes. I'm going to test this more though, to be able to consistently lower or increase the volume in this range, like you said.

Speaking of frequency response, I actually ran into exactly the same problem as you when tuning Rin for a cover that I haven't released yet. I was using a multiband compressor to control most of the dynamics, and I also felt like I needed to add a second compressor on top of it to get an additional compression "layer".
But at that point the effect chain had already become so complicated that I didn't follow through with it and instead started over. The processing on that track in now a multiband compressor to catch peaks and lower the volume around 500Hz, an EQ that boosts the 10kHz range, and a soft compressor. It works well in this particular case, but I'm not going to be afraid of applying several compressors on top of each other in the future!
 
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inactive

Passionate Fan
Jun 27, 2019
179
Have you tried dynamic EQ? TDR Nova is free and sounds very clean thanks to its parallel topography, although it does eat CPU cycles.

And you can also try swapping the order of your EQ and compression plugins, if you haven't already experimented with this.
 

CdrSonan

Passionate Fan
Sep 12, 2019
107
I didn't use a dynamic EQ so far, since I thought it's basically the same as multiband compression
I'm downloading Nova now though, thanks for sharing the link!
About swapping plugin order, I have tried that, but with rather limited success. It seemed to cause more bad than good because the settings weren't dialed in properly any more
 

inactive

Passionate Fan
Jun 27, 2019
179
Yeah, if you swap the order of EQ and compression plugins you have to dial in new settings, particularly on the EQ side of things.
 

SeleDreams

Passionate Fan
Jul 31, 2019
154
23
When I was mixing my miku expo song I noticed that when boosting the high frequencies, it was better to boost it closer to the right end because her right mid frequencies are already high by default so boosting them kind of saturates her voice so just bringing up the actual highest frequencies helps bring more balance to her voice

it shouldn't be brought too high though as it can make it annoying to listen to as well

I also tend to avoid to totally cut the lower frequencies and instead lower them with a low end shelf
 

CdrSonan

Passionate Fan
Sep 12, 2019
107
The high mid range really is what‘s giving me the most trouble. It is high by default, and sometimes there are rather weird volume spikes in it as well, which makes applying EQ to it rather difficult.
Apart from that, like you, I‘m also boosting the treble to bring out the consonants, and if that makes it hard to listen to, I lower the treble of the entire song with mastering.
My processing of the mids and below really varies from song to song, but I don’t think I’ve tried a simple shelf in the bass
 

SeleDreams

Passionate Fan
Jul 31, 2019
154
23
The high mid range really is what‘s giving me the most trouble. It is high by default, and sometimes there are rather weird volume spikes in it as well, which makes applying EQ to it rather difficult.
Apart from that, like you, I‘m also boosting the treble to bring out the consonants, and if that makes it hard to listen to, I lower the treble of the entire song with mastering.
My processing of the mids and below really varies from song to song, but I don’t think I’ve tried a simple shelf in the bass
For the volume spikes a compressor or a dynamic eq is useful
 

Ronny777

VOCALOID5 Tuner
Dec 10, 2020
127
29
Canada
soundcloud.com
I use Miku in the Vocaloid 5 engine and so Im not sure what would be the equivalent but I lower both the exciter and the character in her voice colour in the style option. depending on the song and pitch ill play around with that until i can understand her words a clearly as i can get them.
 

CdrSonan

Passionate Fan
Sep 12, 2019
107
I use V5 as well!
From my experience, lowering the exciter makes the pronunciation less clear, which is why I don't usually do it, but I haven't tried lowering the CHaracter as well throughout the song yet...
I'm going to try that out, thanks for the advice!
 

Ronny777

VOCALOID5 Tuner
Dec 10, 2020
127
29
Canada
soundcloud.com
I use V5 as well!
From my experience, lowering the exciter makes the pronunciation less clear
Here are my default settings use. I play around with it depending on how i need her voice to sound for cover Im making. The singing skill is just there because i like how glitchy it is and i like to see what it does to the song before i fix it XD it makes a good guid.
Screen Shot 2020-12-11 at 10.30.01 PM.png
here's a sound bite of it on and off. the first sentence Miku original and the next on is Miku english. I've just noticed that it doesn't really affect the jp Voicebank as much as the english one

And if you don't like the way this sounds at least i gave you a guid on what not to do XD
 
Last edited:

inactive

Passionate Fan
Jun 27, 2019
179
Any particular reason as to why you've added huge boosts at 47.5 Hz and 100 Hz? Considering the pitch ranges that you're using, the voicebank probably doesn't have much frequency content down there. And if there is, boosting it to such extremes will mess with your compressor.
 

Ronny777

VOCALOID5 Tuner
Dec 10, 2020
127
29
Canada
soundcloud.com
Any particular reason as to why you've added huge boosts at 47.5 Hz and 100 Hz? Considering the pitch ranges that you're using, the voicebank probably doesn't have much frequency content down there. And if there is, boosting it to such extremes will mess with your compressor.
it helps Miku enunciate properly I feel like it helps her tone. I'm not a professional and i don't know what everything is suppsosed to do. I just listen to what changes it makes when I play around with the program. This is the best i could come up with. so I can't explain why I put it like that exactly.
 

inactive

Passionate Fan
Jun 27, 2019
179
I hope you don't take this question the wrong way, but are you familiar with how pitched and non-pitched sounds are organized?
 
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Ronny777

VOCALOID5 Tuner
Dec 10, 2020
127
29
Canada
soundcloud.com
I hope you don't take this question the wrong way, but are you familiar with how pitched and non-pitched sounds are organized?
XD lower pitched is down, higher pitched is up right? I taught myself everything I now about music and vocaloid tuning. I feel really silly. I think i should definitely take classes or at least the time to learn these things. it would probably help my tuning.
I just play it by ear so its very possible that Im doing something wrong.
 

peaches2217

Give me Gackpoid AI or give me DEATH
Sep 11, 2019
1,930
26
Arklahoma
XD lower pitched is down, higher pitched is up right? I taught myself everything I now about music and vocaloid tuning. I feel really silly. I think i should definitely take classes or at least the time to learn these things. it would probably help my tuning.
I just play it by ear so its very possible that Im doing something wrong.
Hey, don't worry! Many of us do it by ear. The intricacies aren't something everyone can grasp; Parallax is extremely skilled in the science of music, while for me music is more a gut feeling, and those are hardly the only ways to tackle music. Everyone learns and perfects it in their own ways, in their own times.
 
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inactive

Passionate Fan
Jun 27, 2019
179
This video is a good introduction to the basics of pitched sound:

Although the narrator does neglect to explain what you're looking at when he switches to the frequency analyzer. And it's not correct to say that time only exists in the time dimension. But other than that, it's a decent introduction.
 
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CdrSonan

Passionate Fan
Sep 12, 2019
107
Here are my default settings use. I play around with it depending on how i need her voice to sound for cover Im making. The singing skill is just there because i like how glitchy it is and i like to see what it does to the song before i fix it XD it makes a good guid.
Thanks for sharing that!
I don't think I'm going to use V5's builtin effects since the ones in my DAW tend to be higher quality, but I'm going to replicate the effect chain there
I've also done some testing on the voice color settings, and you're using nearly the same settings that I ended up with, you only go heavier on the Exciter decrease
 
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