VOCALOID Vocaloid 5 English update

[VocaMew]

I know a lot of people on here were hoping for one of the V1 or V2 English Vocaloids to be the first native-English voicebank to be updated, but I was thinking about the possibilities that come if V5 is indeed coming. Zero-G and Power FX have been put to the test on whether or not they wanna update their loids, at least for now, but Yamaha has not. I know Yamaha is not an English/American company, but Cyber Diva/Cyber Songman are still native English Vocaloids. I personally think at least Cyber Diva has a pretty solid chance in all honesty; I know Yamaha hasn't updated all of their Vocaloids, but they updated Rion, so anything is possible. Also, at least after her release, Cyber Diva did pretty good. The same cannot be said for her counterpart (bless his soul), but again: anything is possible.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

[WintermintP]

Has any English/American company ever updated their Vocaloids to a newer engine before? Personally I don't think I've seen any at all.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[Kona]

My two cents: Cyber Diva has a chance because she's basically Yamaha's main along with VY1. I assume the two will be updated together as time goes on, dropping male counterparts entirely as they go (like how V4 has no VY2, V5 or V6 will have no Cyber Songman)

Aside from her, and with PowerFX gone, I think Dex/Daina are most likely updates for V5 because of their VPs, along with Avanna. I'd say Dex and Avanna only but Aki has strong connections with Zero-G and will likely get to get her updated regardless if she's not a best seller like Dex and Avanna are.
Though let's be real I'll always have hope for Avanna because I'm literally her number one fan

Quite honestly? I don't care much about the English V1/V2 Vocaloids, aside Sonika really. I mean, I would like to buy Prima/Tonio one day and Big Al can sound really nice but I think that's about all my interest. If any got updates aside the mentioned, I likely wouldn't care for it or buy it

Has any English/American company ever updated their Vocaloids to a newer engine before? Personally I don't think I've seen any at all.

Regards,
WintermintP

No native English Vocaloid has ever been updated

 

[Pomelo]

V5 is coming out? I'm so out of the loop rip

I'd be willing to sacrifice my first born for a Prima update tbh, but I do agree that Cyber Diva probably has the best chance ( if any of the Engloids were to update).

 

[DefiantKitsune]

I suspect the only V1/2 that has even a ghost of a chance is Miriam, and that's only due to the fact that she has general appeal and Miriam Stockley is interested. (Sonika has general appeal as well, but her reputation is kaput.)

Daina doesn't sell quite as well as Dex/Avanna, but she definitely qualifies as a very high seller (pretty sure she outpeaked Prima, the previous top 10 record holder), so she'd probably come with them. (Also Aki has been pretty clear on Twitter that she doesn't really have that much influence on Zero-G)

Cyman and VY2 probably won't get dropped entirely, just temporarily ignored.

 

[RawBeansP]

I agree with Kona that the only native Engloids that have any real shot of ever getting updated is Songman and Diva. I think Dex and Daina have a good shot with Aki leading behind them, and to my knowledge Avanna is still outselling Dex (at least I'm pretty sure she is) so I hope that zero-g would update her but I feel like her chances are still a lot smaller regardless

in the past I would've thought that Oliver would be one of the first Engloids to update but I feel like that's all been thrown out the window in hot flames. honestly the curse of being an Engloid is that you only get 15 minutes of fame and that's it, unless money miracles happen Engloids just kinda exist as they are in their own era.its a real shame, but it is what it is

 

[WintermintP]

What happens to the V4 owners if V5 rolls around? Do we have to buy a new editor again at full price? If we have to buy a new editor again at full price and we get no discounts for owning the previous banks then I say it wouldn't be very wise for them to even have updates available, as nobody would want to buy. Even if there are going to be discounts, which I highly doubt, they would have to bring the upgrade prices quite low just to get more people buying, which I seriously doubt if they're going to do because either the development costs are going to be very high or it's just going to be a reskin of the previous editor. The upgrade prices are very likely to be nonsensical either way, because with everything becoming more and more expensive every minute, something's got to go.

As for my thoughts on Avanna being upgraded to V5, that's going to be next to impossible because of the growl feature that V4 has. I don't know about the other singers, but it would be a really tall order to record a growl feature for a bank with a tone that soft. If the tone tightened up a lot, and by that it would have to have gained a lot more attack and strength in tone, then we might see a different story, but otherwise, I highly doubt if there will ever be a V5 Avanna.

And really, one of my main complaints with Avanna was that her tone is just way too soft and because of that, despite her range, she's really difficult to work with, so unless that's fixed, I wouldn't find an upgrade for Avanna all that appealing in the first place anyway.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[DefiantKitsune]

As for my thoughts on Avanna being upgraded to V5, that's going to be next to impossible because of the growl feature that V4 has. I don't know about the other singers, but it would be a really tall order to record a growl feature for a bank with a tone that soft. If the tone tightened up a lot, and by that it would have to have gained a lot more attack and strength in tone, then we might see a different story, but otherwise, I highly doubt if there will ever be a V5 Avanna.

I mean Yuki and Zunko have it and they're as soft as her (Yuki might be softer) so I don't really think that would be that much of an obstacle.

 

[WintermintP]

I mean Yuki and Zunko have it and they're as soft as her (Yuki might be softer) so I don't really think that would be that much of an obstacle.

I can't speak for Zunko, but do you know how Yuki got her growl? Somebody else had to do it for the VP instead. Unless it's one of those cases, I still see it as a big obstacle. It's high time Avanna's tone got a lot more attack to begin with anyway.

Although, I would much rather see a Female Engloid that has very few quirks like Avanna does but is rather best suited for rock and metal like Flower is.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[DefiantKitsune]

I can't speak for Zunko, but do you know how Yuki got her growl? Somebody else had to do it for the VP instead. Unless it's one of those cases, I still see it as a big obstacle. It's high time Avanna's tone got a lot more attack to begin with anyway.

I don't see anything wrong with someone else doing Avanna's growl- it's not like anyone buying her wants it.

Also, it should be kinda obvious that Yuki having a different growl provider had absolutely nothing with the ability to do it...... miki had someone else do it too.

 

[WintermintP]

Well, if it's a more commonplace practice, then, yea, sure, maybe it's not as bad of an obstacle... (no sarcasm intended)

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[Kona]

@WintermintP when a new version comes up, you can get an upgrade price download version of the editor (it's half priced) or buy it full price. Most people are willing to buy it, even if you may think otherwise. Many people bought V3 and many people bought V4, even though they had to buy editors. You can only upgrade to the same type of editor though (V3>V4, V3 for Cubase>V4 for Cubase). You can actually find those on the Japanese Vocaloid Shop, formally on the old English Vocaloid Store too but not added to the Vocaloid Shop

As for Avanna, growl isn't an issue. Yuki is way softer than her, plus other super soft voicebanks have growl. As far as her being difficult for you, it's likely just your main genre. Myself and really most the community from what I've seen finds her one of, if not the, easiest English Vocaloid to use, especially for beginners.
EDIT: just to demonstrate, you can hear Yuki's growl in this demo, around 0:55

As far as her sales go, I believe she is still the top with Dex being just a little under her. Just by sales alone, I think she'd be the most likely to get updated with her reputation being basically the best selling Native English Vocaloid.

 

[RawBeansP]

What happens to the V4 owners if V5 rolls around? Do we have to buy a new editor again at full price? If we have to buy a new editor again at full price and we get no discounts for owning the previous banks then I say it wouldn't be very wise for them to even have updates available, as nobody would want to buy. Even if there are going to be discounts, which I highly doubt, they would have to bring the upgrade prices quite low just to get more people buying, which I seriously doubt if they're going to do because either the development costs are going to be very high or it's just going to be a reskin of the previous editor. The upgrade prices are very likely to be nonsensical either way, because with everything becoming more and more expensive every minute, something's got to go.

And really, one of my main complaints with Avanna was that her tone is just way too soft and because of that, despite her range, she's really difficult to work with, so unless that's fixed, I wouldn't find an upgrade for Avanna all that appealing in the first place anyway.

I'm with you on the reskin of the previous editor thing, I really hope they don't do that again bc that was some malarkey lol.

The thing is about the Vocaloid fandom is that the Vocaloids are basically idols that you can skip all the gacha for and buy with the money you would've spent on rolls anyway, which is why a lot of people are really devoted to it (besides making music and stuff obviously).This is esp true for the Japanese loids as nearly all of them have been updated, alternatively its also why Engloids dont do so hot in money terms bc in order to make a quality update that isn't just porting the bank from a previous engine onto the current one it would cost lots and lots of money. Making a quality bank isn't the real issue as much as just even affording to buy the licence to update so. People just don't buy Engloids like they do Japanese loids and if people don't buy then there's no money for an update. It's why there's no Piko update either but there's Tone freaking Rion for some reason

also since no Engloid has been updated it's hard to say if they'd even have discounts, but I know that several of the Japanese loids have had discounts for upgrading to the newest bank

Also to come to the defense of my beautiful Celtic queen, the reason you find Avanna hard to work with is bc she is a very soft EDM oriented vocal that you try to use for primarily rock and hard rock. While I agree that Avanna could have an epic Power bank to accompany her original, it's good to keep in mind that there are much better options for the genres you write for and writing off Avanna as being hard to work with bc she doesn't fit into the genre you write for isn't totally fair

 

[Move->Forward]

V5 is coming out? I'm so out of the loop rip

Just want to pop in and clarify that nothing official has, as of this moment, announced VOCALOID5 is coming.

Some interesting points have been brought up here.

 

[WintermintP]

@Robyn Is A Ninja Fair points, although I'd like to point out that I've moved on to melodic metalcore now. My point was that I was hoping she would be more versatile and become an all-rounder and not just a soft EDM bank.

Also, to my defence, the only other possible Engloid option would've been Miku or Luka V4 English. For that same reason I've started using Miku V4 English a lot more often than I used to. Yes, I bit the bullet and bought her.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[sleepysheep7]

I guess I would agree with everyone else on if an english vocaloid got upgraded. My first bet would be on Cyber Diva and then Songman since they are from Yamaha. Then it would AVANNA, DEX, and DAINA since the voicers for 2 out of the three have close ties to Zero-G. After that it is anyone's guess if an English Vocaloid would be upgraded to V5. Though I would kill for MIRIAM to be updated.

 

[VocaMew]

As far as Zero-G is concerned, I still think updating Miriam would be the most financial sense. She's gained a lot of appeal for an update, and a lot of people don't own her previous version given V1's discontinuation. And even people that own her would be interested given that V1 voicebanks don't work in V4 (or later) engines. People can chill with their Avanna, Dex, Daina, Cyva, etc, but a lot of people just can't do that with Miriam.

 

[WintermintP]

As far as what actually makes sense to do, I'm quite torn. If you upgrade one of the existing Engloids I doubt if they're going to sell well, but on the other hand, if you make a new bank altogether it'll get a lot of criticism saying it sounds the same as x bank. I'd say they're damned either way.

As for why I don't think Engloid updates will sell well, Engloids in general don't sell all that well and trying to put more money into the said market would seem like a waste of money, so my prediction is that all we're going to get is just porting to the new engine at best unless a company is insane enough to actually find the VPs again and redo the recordings. I honestly think their better move would be to find new VPs and move on, but my concern would have to be that they would have to come up with a Vocaloid that sounds drastically different from the other loids.

Speaking of Vocaloids that sound the same, I'm starting to feel the problem of that might be rooting from the engine itself, given the fact that different companies seem to have inadvertently made Vocaloids that sound the same (of course I'm talking about the Giuseppe incident and the new Komachi and other similarities such as IA ROCKS and VY1V4 sounding similar). Also, there are way too many people in this world so you're actually bound to encounter a number of people that have very similar-sounding voices, and I think that might've played a factor as well.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[VocaMew]

I hear what you're saying, but there's just going to be an element of risk in business. Could an update not sell well? Sure. Could an entirely new voicebank go bust? Totally. But it is an absolute guarantee that nothing will do well if you just sit there. Now, I am aware that Zero-G makes instrumental software and the like, and they've got a thing going, but I'm still a fighter for the thought that they'll never know if, say, Miriam V4 won't do well unless they do it.

 

[WintermintP]

I hear what you're saying, but there's just going to be an element of risk in business. Could an update not sell well? Sure. Could an entirely new voicebank go bust? Totally. But it is an absolute guarantee that nothing will do well if you just sit there. Now, I am aware that Zero-G makes instrumental software and the like, and they've got a thing going, but I'm still a fighter for the thought that they'll never know if, say, Miriam V4 won't do well unless they do it.

That's a nice train of thought. I'm normally not a fan of the "just do it" mentality, but we truly never know unless we try.

Best Regards,
WintermintP