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VOCALOID On the stigma surrounding Vocaloid

mikusingularity

Science and Futurism with Hatsune Miku
Jan 21, 2020
26
The western community is exactly what I would expect it to be given the circumstances. The public perception is that Vocaloid is Japanese, and Japanese media is stigmatized in the west. On top of that, westerners are often skeptical of machines doing the work of humans, and often frown upon technological help in singing. Vocaloid strikes many, if not most westerners as strange, pointless, and unattractive. As a result, Vocaloid is very niche in the west despite our best efforts, which brings me to another problem I have with the western community in particular:

I believe most western Vocaloid fans reject western Vocaloid designs that are not typically manga-styled and cute/pretty. I want western Vocaloids with just plain cool designs, too. I think it would help Vocaloid enter the mainstream here. We already have several western Vocaloids that don't have Japanese-influenced designs, like the Cyber singers, Chris, and Amy, but they are very unpopular.
Ironically, that anti-machine sentiment is the reason why most Japanese companies still use fax machines.

If such alleged behaviour is typical, it could explain Japanese firms' productivity crisis, says Rochelle Kopp, founder of Japan Intercultural Consulting, an international training and consulting firm focused on Japanese business.
With one foot in Tokyo and another in Silicon Valley, she says: "US workers are much more productive because they have access to the best technology - the US is at the technological frontier."
Japan's failure to ditch its analogue habits and go digital means its "companies are losing out on productivity boosters," says Ms Kopp, who used to work in a large Japanese firm for several years.
"Japanese IT departments are remorselessly conservative and hate to connect their computers to the outside world. They fear data theft and hacking, which also makes them fear abroad."
As Martin Ford, author of Rise of the Robots points out, the more advanced your IT, the more likely it is to replace you.
So despite the tech-loving public image, much of corporate Japan seems intent on circling the wagons against automation and using people rather than machines wherever possible. After all, those faxes don't pick up themselves.
Such overstaffing may help keep the country's unemployment rate down at 3.4%, but it also keeps productivity down, too - not to mention entrepreneurialism.
Whether such an approach can stave off the rise of artificial intelligence, robots and automation in a world moving from a commodity-based economy to one based on intellectual capital, seems unlikely.
But corporate Japan seems intent on trying.
Western expats living in Japan want companies to be more tech-savvy, as they are frustrated when IT systems are stuck in the 80s and 90s.

I think promoting the technological aspect of Vocaloid is what should be done. Miku is sometimes said to be part of the high-tech reputation of Japan (before you learn about the faxes and all that).
Japan and technology are often mentioned in the same breath. Bullet trains, robots, only-in-Japan phones that'll never leave the island, digital pop-idols and so on. Tech legends like Sony, Nintendo, Panasonic, Sharp, Nikon, Canon, Toyota and more were born here, but most have had mixed fortunes in recent decades. Some missed out on (or were too late to) the smartphone boom, or suffered from declining point-and-shoot-camera sales. Others simply faced stronger competition from Korean and Chinese companies. Smartphones, wearables and VR have generally come from elsewhere. Japan's reputation for getting the newest technology first doesn't ring very true these days -- in fact, those aforementioned tech giants have a reputation for being a risk-averse and slow to change. (Many, if not most companies still request that I fax over my RSVP for their press conferences and meetings. I kid you not.)
I hate that "weeaboo" stigma, too, but I understand - it's people viewing anime/manga (or anything with that style) as either "too kiddy" or "too perverted," isn't it?
 
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Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
699
I think Vocaloid's stigma is that 1.) It's too associated with anime and wider otaku culture (because of Miku and co.) to appeal outside of the Western anime fandom, and 2.) Vocal synths in general are still a niche instrument among (non-anime fan) musicians, so they're not likely to pick up even an Engloid with a non-anime design, like the Cybers, Amy, Chris, etc.
 

mikusingularity

Science and Futurism with Hatsune Miku
Jan 21, 2020
26
I think Vocaloid's stigma is that 1.) It's too associated with anime and wider otaku culture (because of Miku and co.) to appeal outside of the Western anime fandom, and 2.) Vocal synths in general are still a niche instrument among (non-anime fan) musicians, so they're not likely to pick up even an Engloid with a non-anime design, like the Cybers, Amy, Chris, etc.
What would it take to change that?
 
Sep 21, 2019
1,401
What would it take to change that?
That's an interesting question, really. I think better marketing towards western musicians in general, but that might be more difficult because of the way the music industry functions.

For avatars, maybe a design that's a little more neutral. Not super anime, not super western cartoon-y, but not hyper realistic either. Art is a very subjective medium and no matter what you draw, there'll always be someone who doesn't like it or thinks it's bad.

I'm interested in seeing what other people have to say about this!
 

mikusingularity

Science and Futurism with Hatsune Miku
Jan 21, 2020
26
That's an interesting question, really. I think better marketing towards western musicians in general, but that might be more difficult because of the way the music industry functions.

For avatars, maybe a design that's a little more neutral. Not super anime, not super western cartoon-y, but not hyper realistic either. Art is a very subjective medium and no matter what you draw, there'll always be someone who doesn't like it or thinks it's bad.

I'm interested in seeing what other people have to say about this!
Is there any example of what a "neutral" design looks like?
 
Sep 21, 2019
1,401
Well, "neutral" may have been the wrong word for me to use since art is very subjective. I think it would greatly depend on who the company is and who they're trying to market Vocaloids to. If the voice is more cutesy then a cute anime type design may be best. It really depends greatly on target audience.

I think companies would need to do some research on their target audience before settling on a design. Maybe some focus group testing to see what appeals to their target market.

(So, to actually answer your question, I don't actually know of any examples of a neutral design... :yohioloid_lili:)
 

TheStarPalace

Hardcore Fan
Apr 8, 2018
483
I think Yamaha tried to make "neutral" designs for the V5 starters (they have pretty simple hair styles and outfits) but the art style/lack of expression turned people off. Most musicians I've seen try V5 who weren't familiar with Vocaloid just kinda ignored the designs as well. I wonder if a middle ground of having no designs or using stock images would work.
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
699
I wonder if a middle ground of having no designs or using stock images would work.
Like Leon, Lola, Prima, the VYs, etc.? From what I understand about musicians who aren't into anime or Japanese culture, they tend not to care a whole lot about boxart (aside from it being appealing from a professional standpoint).

I think the Vocaloid program in general needs to sit at a happy medium between appealing to both amateur and professional musicians. Vocaloid was originally aimed at professionals, but Vocaloid culture originally exploded around amateurs. If the amateur presence remains in future versions of Vocaloid, but also manages to attract a professional presence (that may or may not have stronger links to the music industry), then Vocaloid can survive and sustain itself. But I'm not liking the way Yamaha has been going with Vocaloid recently, especially considering the fan reaction to V5 and the severe lack of new VBs on there.
 

mikusingularity

Science and Futurism with Hatsune Miku
Jan 21, 2020
26
Like Leon, Lola, Prima, the VYs, etc.? From what I understand about musicians who aren't into anime or Japanese culture, they tend not to care a whole lot about boxart (aside from it being appealing from a professional standpoint).

I think the Vocaloid program in general needs to sit at a happy medium between appealing to both amateur and professional musicians. Vocaloid was originally aimed at professionals, but Vocaloid culture originally exploded around amateurs. If the amateur presence remains in future versions of Vocaloid, but also manages to attract a professional presence (that may or may not have stronger links to the music industry), then Vocaloid can survive and sustain itself. But I'm not liking the way Yamaha has been going with Vocaloid recently, especially considering the fan reaction to V5 and the severe lack of new VBs on there.
Can Vocaloids appeal to professional musicians only if they had more realistic-sounding voicebanks?
 
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TheStarPalace

Hardcore Fan
Apr 8, 2018
483
Can Vocaloids appeal to professional musicians only if they had more realistic-sounding voicebanks?
I sort of doubt that. If vocaloids became virtually indistinct from human singers, wouldn't it be easier and more cost effective for a professional to just hire a real singer and not have to learn a whole new program? Even realistic voice banks require effort to sound good with a song you make. A lot of people do still find synth voices charming, Porter Robinson even said he liked the "hollow", synthetic quality Avanna has.
The Vocaloid brand name is too heavily associated with amateurs, I feel. And the learning curve is steep, so most people who get invested in it were fans to begin with. Most of the people who got review copies of V5 used it for a bit and then never touched it again.
If anything Synthesizer V is doing very well at being appealing to all kinds of musicians. Maybe it's because it's a new brand and program that isn't heavily associated with vocaloid yet.
 

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