Unpopular Opinions

[Blue Of Mind]

I believe that Crypton is making games based on their own Piapro characters moreso than Piapro Studio NT.

Yeah, that's the kind of thing Crypton seem to be wasting* too much time on these days. Same thing with stuff like the Pokemon collab. While I love Pokemon and the collab is adorable, it's not exactly what the fans have been asking for over the last few years.

*I'm always down for new Miku games, but we could do with a new Project Diva soon, or maybe even a new spinoff similar to Project Mirai.

 

[nene]

I feel like Crypton knows that in their current state they could probably never release a new voicebank again after their NT banks.

Miku is so much of a brand-mascot that they don't really have to think about their products meaningfully. Like, even Project Sekai, which used Cryptonloids as a launchpad, has given us some bad tuning and half-baked showcases of their talents.... I'm sure with how many years they've been doing this too- it's easy to use existing synth material you already have avalible or provide keys to old software you made > developing something truly new.

This is just my opinion though, feel free to dissagree/comment back.

 

[Rylitah]

I think even if Crypton was still actively pushing out updates for NT, they wouldn't bother with AI.

Miku (and by extension their other characters)'s uniqueness comes from her robotic tone. The whole point of NT was to make essentially the best Miku, since (forewarning, I have no source for this next bit; it's something I've heard parroted among the community for years though) apparently fans were disappointed in her V3 for not sounding enough like her. Whether that's true or not though, they did confirm that they didn't update Miku to V5 because they thought she didn't sound enough like herself on that engine. AI has always been something I'm positive they would never bother with, especially because they're so strict on how they want Miku to sound on a base level. They encourage a lot of different derivative Mikus, but for an official product, something coming from solely Crypton themselves, I think AI has never been on the table.

It's because of that that I think NT pretty much is the end goal. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they're embarrassed or ashamed of it since they're clearly still using it in Project Sekai, and admittedly the lack of news and updates on it (especially regarding the... other five vocals that they have yet to release for it) is weird, but I really don't think there will be anything after NT, at least not for a very long time. And they can afford that, because like nene was saying, Miku pretty much sells herself. Synth V and any other synth engine out there no matter how many updates and new features they get isn't competition - Crypton hasn't been competing.

 

[Granata]

Is anyone else bothered by Crypton's current trajectory of just hawking Miku out as a mascot character, rather than actively trying to upgrade her VB to modern vocal synth standards? I know she's always been a mascot character available to throw on tons of merch, but NT seems to be dead as a program in truly active development, and we've had no rumours or whispers about other improvements such as an AI bank.

Yeah I'm very bothered by that as well. If it wasn't for Project Sekai Crypton would be even more dead. In terms of recent vb sales AHS suprassed Crypton, Kamitsubaki might too on long-term, and Crypton's kinda doing nothing about it

 

[Blue Of Mind]

<snip>

From this perspective, it sounds like Crypton is almost in the same position Nintendo is today, where they don't worry too much about actively competing with other companies because they've long cornered a specific niche in the market. In Crypton's case, it sounds like they want to stick with standard VBs for the foreseeable future (and in all fairness, banks where you still have to tune everything still have their pros - a lot more freedom when it comes to output for one, compared to AI VBs).

 

[AmazingStrange39]

I think even if Crypton was still actively pushing out updates for NT, they wouldn't bother with AI.

Miku (and by extension their other characters)'s uniqueness comes from her robotic tone. The whole point of NT was to make essentially the best Miku, since (forewarning, I have no source for this next bit; it's something I've heard parroted among the community for years though) apparently fans were disappointed in her V3 for not sounding enough like her. Whether that's true or not though, they did confirm that they didn't update Miku to V5 because they thought she didn't sound enough like herself on that engine. AI has always been something I'm positive they would never bother with, especially because they're so strict on how they want Miku to sound on a base level. They encourage a lot of different derivative Mikus, but for an official product, something coming from solely Crypton themselves, I think AI has never been on the table.

It's because of that that I think NT pretty much is the end goal. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they're embarrassed or ashamed of it since they're clearly still using it in Project Sekai, and admittedly the lack of news and updates on it (especially regarding the... other five vocals that they have yet to release for it) is weird, but I really don't think there will be anything after NT, at least not for a very long time. And they can afford that, because like nene was saying, Miku pretty much sells herself. Synth V and any other synth engine out there no matter how many updates and new features they get isn't competition - Crypton hasn't been competing.

Yeah, I definitely agree with this- Crypton's kind of on its own wavelength and doesn't feel the need to follow the crowd. I'd love to see them do some cool innovation though, even if it's not necessarily in the realm of AI synthesis. A unique new feature, or a new engine with a different approach, could be very cool.

 

[pico]

I think I disagree with this overarching sentiment that Crypton is either a) at a loss due to NT's condition or b) failing as a whole due to the lack of new VB releases.

I think the reality of the situation is that development of products is ongoing, but development is difficult and Crypton happens to be a company dedicated to preserving the particular Miku that we know well, rather than piggybacking on an existing technology for increased revenue.

Here's an alternative way to frame it-- they don't need the money because Miku is so popular on her own, so we won't get VST products that don't align with their vision of what Miku is supposed to be.

Tangentially, it's not as if the people that develop VSTs are the same people negotiating marketing deals with the Pokemon company. Time is not being lost in one direction or another. If you are upset that Project DIVA hasn't come out, take it up with SEGA, not Crypton. Project Sekai is making more money than Project DIVA's releases ever could, so this is really a non-issue for the game companies.

Waiting for an AI release is definitely misguided for this reason. I feel relatively strongly there will be news on NT in the relatively near future.

 

[AmazingStrange39]

I think I disagree with this overarching sentiment that Crypton is either a) at a loss due to NT's condition or b) failing as a whole due to the lack of new VB releases.

I think the reality of the situation is that development of products is ongoing, but development is difficult and Crypton happens to be a company dedicated to preserving the particular Miku that we know well, rather than piggybacking on an existing technology for increased revenue.

Here's an alternative way to frame it-- they don't need the money because Miku is so popular on her own, so we won't get VST products that don't align with their vision of what Miku is supposed to be.

Tangentially, it's not as if the people that develop VSTs are the same people negotiating marketing deals with the Pokemon company. Time is not being lost in one direction or another. If you are upset that Project DIVA hasn't come out, take it up with SEGA, not Crypton. Project Sekai is making more money than Project DIVA's releases ever could, so this is really a non-issue for the game companies.

Waiting for an AI release is definitely misguided for this reason. I feel relatively strongly there will be news on NT in the relatively near future.

oh, i hope so, would be nice to get more news on nt.

but yes. miku is miku and she doesn't really need to be anyone else.

 

[Heruru Meruru]

Honestly, Vocaloid6 AI (particularly the straight ports) and especially Cevio/Voisona still sound plenty artificial, no more human than previous versions of Vocaloid. Only real difference is that it can do the tuning for you and for Vocaloid you can get multilanguage without recording new samples. Miku doesn't necessarily need to move to an ultra realistic engine like SynthV, just going back to Vocaloid should have her sound like her usual self and much better than NT.

 

[AmazingStrange39]

Honestly, Vocaloid6 AI (particularly the straight ports) and especially Cevio/Voisona still sound plenty artificial, no more human than previous versions of Vocaloid. Only real difference is that it can do the tuning for you and for Vocaloid you can get multilanguage without recording new samples. Miku doesn't necessarily need to move to an ultra realistic engine like SynthV, just going back to Vocaloid should have her sound like her usual self and much better than NT.

that's true, we've seen that with una and the zola project

and i guess in that case we might get piapro studio for v6

although they'd probably have to overhaul everything because of what a big whiplash v5 and v6 are compared to v2-4

 

[lIlI]

As awesome as it is to see Vocaloid producers getting their songs performed at major concerts like Coachella, there's also a conversation to be had about how Crypton exploits the unpaid work of small artists with competitions that offer no prize money, and major events where zero pay goes to the actual musicians behind their setlist. Miku as a concept of uniting and empowering people with creativity is exceptional, but companies behind her often fail to do the bare minimum to support the artists they wouldn't exist without.

 

[Granata]

What a coincidence, just last week someone irl asked me if the producers get paid for their songs being played live. I never thought of this before but that irl was rightfully asking. According to Miku Expo website the producers get a 100k yen voucher for music production tools. That's a worth of 647 USD / 609€ which would be fine if it was actual money and not a weirdass voucher

But that convo made me think a lot about commissioned songs in general, like how much do you get for writing a concert theme, an anniversary song, a pjsk commission etc. You don't really find anything about that online