Question Tips for Improving Tuning?

[Scarlet Illusion]

I'm curious. What are some tips you all have for improving one's tuning? I've been kinda feeling like I'm stuck in a tuning rut and while it sounds good, I feel like I'm not really improving but my tuning could still be much better.

I could use advice on both Vocaloid and UTAU tuning. How could I make my pitchbends more dynamic and interesting? (I feel like sometimes the pitchbends/vocals are kinda uninteresting... especially when I see the way other people tune the same song.) (Is there some kind of "pitch bend theory"? Know what I mean?)

When are the best parts in a song to adjust dynamics? An UTAU specific question here: how can I adjust the envelopes more efficiently? XP

I know it'd probably help if I was more familiar with music theory, but alas, that is not exactly my strong suit! :S

Any advice is welcome and appreciated!

 

[Älfa Dröttning]

I usually notebend or use V5 presets instead of using the PIT/PBS parameters, so I don’t have suggestions for those specifically, but I tend to scoop into the beginnings of phrases (start the note a half step/whole step below the actual pitch depending on the key and move into the correct pitch). I sometimes do notebends in the middle of notes but that’s pretty rare and is mostly just for effect. I think the amount of pitchbends you use depends on what genre of music you’re doing/what style you’re going for. Like if you want the singer to sound cute you could do a pitchbend up at the ends of notes and increase the breathiness (or something like that).

As for dynamics, I’m still figuring them out too. I adjust dynamics throughout the song, so it’s not staying the same in any one part. I know someone who says that “Phrasing is going from low notes to high notes and short notes to long notes.” Now, that is for classical music, so it won’t always apply (and it doesn’t always work for classical music either), but essentially what that means is that you want to increase dynamics when you are going towards long notes or high notes. Take Raspberry*Monster’s chorus for example. If you were tuning it, you would probably want to increase the dynamics until you get to the -ry part of raspberry and then have another climax when you get to the -ter part of monster, right? In that case the saying works. It’s not a foolproof method, but if you can figure out which notes in the melody are most important, those are usually the ones you want to bring out. I hope this helps!

 

[Nezuh]

This may not be what you are looking for, but much of the work I do on a cover is adding harmonies and backing vocals, so there's that.
tbf harms and chorus are my thing (lol), but it's something that people don't usually talk about when they talk about tuning? and they can make a big difference imo.
Don't overdo it though.

In fact, not overdoing it is perhaps the most important advice I can give. My personal rule is not to use too many editions that I don't feel comfortable using.
Like, adding some natural-sounding vibrates (made with Shine Vibrato, btw) in a non-distracting amount, for example.
Although again, that's my style. There are a lot of people who actually prefer overdue and exaggeration and it's fine too I guess

 

[peaches2217]

Something I've tried a few times before: find a really good VSQ, download it, and plug it into your Vocaloid of choice, and look at the way the creator tuned it. Find certain things you like and try mimicking it on your own in another VSQ! It can help to look at the way other people tune, that way you can figure out new things to try.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

I usually notebend or use V5 presets instead of using the PIT/PBS parameters, so I don’t have suggestions for those specifically, but I tend to scoop into the beginnings of phrases (start the note a half step/whole step below the actual pitch depending on the key and move into the correct pitch). I sometimes do notebends in the middle of notes but that’s pretty rare and is mostly just for effect. I think the amount of pitchbends you use depends on what genre of music you’re doing/what style you’re going for. Like if you want the singer to sound cute you could do a pitchbend up at the ends of notes and increase the breathiness (or something like that).

As for dynamics, I’m still figuring them out too. I adjust dynamics throughout the song, so it’s not staying the same in any one part. I know someone who says that “Phrasing is going from low notes to high notes and short notes to long notes.” Now, that is for classical music, so it won’t always apply (and it doesn’t always work for classical music either), but essentially what that means is that you want to increase dynamics when you are going towards long notes or high notes. Take Raspberry*Monster’s chorus for example. If you were tuning it, you would probably want to increase the dynamics until you get to the -ry part of raspberry and then have another climax when you get to the -ter part of monster, right? In that case the saying works. It’s not a foolproof method, but if you can figure out which notes in the melody are most important, those are usually the ones you want to bring out. I hope this helps!

Ahh! That makes so much sense! Thank you!!! I have a feeling that just “clicked” with me.

This may not be what you are looking for, but much of the work I do on a cover is adding harmonies and backing vocals, so there's that.
tbf harms and chorus are my thing (lol), but it's something that people don't usually talk about when they talk about tuning? and they can make a big difference imo.
Don't overdo it though.

In fact, not overdoing it is perhaps the most important advice I can give. My personal rule is not to use too many editions that I don't feel comfortable using.
Like, adding some natural-sounding vibrates (made with Shine Vibrato, btw) in a non-distracting amount, for example.
Although again, that's my style. There are a lot of people who actually prefer overdue and exaggeration and it's fine too I guess

Thank you for the advice! Come to think of it, a lot of the excellent covers I hear make heavy use of good harmonies.
Do you have any advice on making good harmonies? I usually just use whatever harmonies come with the UST/VSQ I’ve downloaded and then tune them, so I don’t know a whole lot about them. :P

Something I've tried a few times before: find a really good VSQ, download it, and plug it into your Vocaloid of choice, and look at the way the creator tuned it. Find certain things you like and try mimicking it on your own in another VSQ! It can help to look at the way other people tune, that way you can figure out new things to try.

That’s an excellent idea! I do need to do that more often! Also, even though I’m the one who asked the question, I’m gonna suggest to anyone else who reads this to check out some of the demo videos on the Cryptonloid’s V4x pages because of them show the notes (and from what I’ve seen the demo songs from Deco*27 and Hachioji are tuned at least in part using note bending, so you can kinda get a feel for what they did).

 

[Krin]

*ok i love discussing tuning!!!!! so i'm gonna write an essay lol sry not sry*

when it comes to tuning in Vocaloid, there's really not that much i can say about it... (because my experience is exclusively with the V4 engine, and i honestly just don't have a ton of time docked in there. i only have 4 vocaloids which every one of them are engloids too ;0)
UTAU on the other hand... girl i will not shut up

however my quick disclaimer is that, my tuning isn't GODLY as in akem/rev/tanjiro taidana, but its decent at least i mean i can tune ruko's male libraries how bad can i be?

How could I make my pitchbends more dynamic and interesting? (I feel like sometimes the pitchbends/vocals are kinda uninteresting... especially when I see the way other people tune the same song.) (Is there some kind of "pitch bend theory"? Know what I mean?)

"Dynamic and interesting" mostly comes down to personal opinion. Of course a ust with only essential pitchbends is always gonna sound bland af. Adding more creative pitchbends will definitely make the voice more interesting, but pitchbends don't do hard carry tuning. Editing consonant velocity, preutterance/overlap, envelopes and flags all play a part.

But the main key is knowing where to put them so they don't sound out of place, and what to do with them (how they should be drawn). As for a pitch bend theory, i don't think anything like that is real unless all the tuning gods have this super inner circle thing going on. Everyone has their own style of tuning and it really just depends on how the USER wants/prefers to make a voice sound like. Meaning some people are gonna like different singing styles. imo akem's style of tuning is very different than kyaami's, i can hear a lot more exaggerated pitch changes in akem's which is what i like about her tuning style, while with kyaami's way, i can still hear a lot of pitchbend use but the way she tunes just doesn't do it for me :/

I'll try to give advice in the way I do my pitchbends??

(this is a private link because it's missing breaths and cover art yet. vocaverse hears it first!!)
Here i used none other than Merry Kohaku, <3 LOV HER. the resampler i used was moresampler. always. i've officially broken up with all the other resamplers.

Ummm, kinda hard to describe exactly how i tune... i just kinda do what i think sounds cool hfhgkskl

i tried to pick a part where i did a lot of crazy pitchbends :) this is at 1:20 in the song.
at first glance this looks pretty scary lmao. i tried my best to describe what was going on here. this was made in fking ms paint

WELL that's how i do pitchbends atleast. I'd like to go into consonant velocity and flags but this post would get way too long.

damn i should host a ted talk about UTAU tuning. better see everyone of you there :)))

 

[Krin]

how can I adjust the envelopes more efficiently? XP

there's a plugin called envedit that lets you edit the envelopes of multiple notes at a time, by the same guy who made pitch tracer.

ZteerのUTAU関連物

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

*ok i love discussing tuning!!!!! so i'm gonna write an essay lol sry not sry*

when it comes to tuning in Vocaloid, there's really not that much i can say about it... (because my experience is exclusively with the V4 engine, and i honestly just don't have a ton of time docked in there. i only have 4 vocaloids which every one of them are engloids too ;0)
UTAU on the other hand... girl i will not shut up

however my quick disclaimer is that, my tuning isn't GODLY as in akem/rev/tanjiro taidana, but its decent at least i mean i can tune ruko's male libraries how bad can i be?

"Dynamic and interesting" mostly comes down to personal opinion. Of course a ust with only essential pitchbends is always gonna sound bland af. Adding more creative pitchbends will definitely make the voice more interesting, but pitchbends don't do hard carry tuning. Editing consonant velocity, preutterance/overlap, envelopes and flags all play a part.

But the main key is knowing where to put them so they don't sound out of place, and what to do with them (how they should be drawn). As for a pitch bend theory, i don't think anything like that is real unless all the tuning gods have this super inner circle thing going on. Everyone has their own style of tuning and it really just depends on how the USER wants/prefers to make a voice sound like. Meaning some people are gonna like different singing styles. imo akem's style of tuning is very different than kyaami's, i can hear a lot more exaggerated pitch changes in akem's which is what i like about her tuning style, while with kyaami's way, i can still hear a lot of pitchbend use but the way she tunes just doesn't do it for me :/

I'll try to give advice in the way I do my pitchbends??

(this is a private link because it's missing breaths and cover art yet. vocaverse hears it first!!)
Here i used none other than Merry Kohaku, <3 LOV HER. the resampler i used was moresampler. always. i've officially broken up with all the other resamplers.

Ummm, kinda hard to describe exactly how i tune... i just kinda do what i think sounds cool hfhgkskl

i tried to pick a part where i did a lot of crazy pitchbends :) this is at 1:20 in the song.View attachment 3248
at first glance this looks pretty scary lmao. i tried my best to describe what was going on here. this was made in fking ms paint

WELL that's how i do pitchbends atleast. I'd like to go into consonant velocity and flags but this post would get way too long.

damn i should host a ted talk about UTAU tuning. better see everyone of you there :)))

This is literally everything I ever could have asked for in an UTAU pitch bending tutorial. You're my hero, no joke! (Also, if you want to go into preutterance/overlap/consonant velocity, I sure as heck won't stop you! I could stand to learn more about that stuff. XD)
Also, Krin UTAU ted talk when?