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Other New VoiSona "Ui" (CV: Shigure Ui) Releasing in 2025

Leon

AKA missy20201 (Elliot)
Apr 8, 2018
1,043
The argument is definitely nuanced, but I've kind of always personally been on the side of not supporting the creepy products rather than the whole thing. If we get that in the weeds with it re: 3rd party banks, we'd need to boycott Vocaloid for releasing Tsuina with her creepy art style depicting a minor and what the lore of her fellow underaged group members is, which IMO is much creepier than UI's deal. So yes, I personally don't support ACE because of its devs, and I won't be purchasing 3rd party banks that are outright weird like UI or Tsuina.

Ultimately I think there's little anyone can do but "vote with your dollar" -- purchase the products whose values you agree with, and don't buy the ones whose values you don't. But I also think many people who aren't into vtuber or whatever sides of fandom may end up buying banks with unfortunate situations around them just because they like how the character sounds, without knowing anything else. So we can't just start judging anyone who buys one of these "problematic" banks. Not without them doing other creepy things, anyhow.
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
328
How is this any different from Ameya, the developer of UTAU calling beta UTAU "loliedit" and making the first UTAU "Loline Com"? Or Crypton hiring the creator of one of multiple incest anime to create a Racing Miku design for them? Do we have to boycott UTAU and CFM too?
I understand your discomfort but this just feels really hypocritical to me..there are WAY more companies you all should be boycotting, can't use the "third parties/whoever paid the dev fee" excuse for Ameya and Crypton (in the case of Piapro NT) since they aren't third parties in this case..
I'm not sure how this has anything to do with what I said. An earlier post implied/stated that Techno-Speech "gave" a voicebank to Ui, as in she was 1st Party, and thus somehow different from the creepy third parties of SynthV and Vocaloid - which is not the case. She is a third party just like the examples listed prior, and if we are going to treat third party creepy voicebanks for SynthV and Vocaloid as non-reflective of their respective brands, then as she should not reflect the VoiSona software as a whole either.

To your question, no, that's quite literally the opposite of what I was trying to say. Firstly, "loliedit" and "loline.com" were based on a Japanese rapper at the time, both of which were discontinued, and free (as well as UTAU as a whole being free, all of its voicebanks and culture being user developed, and Ameya themselves disappearing for years and never actually sharing / participating in that content themselves).

Crypton hiring an artist for an event is also not the same as a shotacon working IN CRYPTON. Is it subject for criticism, absolutely, but you can just boycott that specifical collaboration. My statement was saying unless their developers themselves (aka people whose paychecks rely on purchasing their products) are creeps, AI bros, or otherwise shady and unethical then there's no reason to consider one collab representative of the entire brand. [Which, in the case of VOICEMITH is not just the one collab with ACE, and that's why plenty of groups who still have collaborated with ACE are widely given criticism, but also hope from fans to engine hop so they can support them. Mine Laru is a perfect example of someone who unfortunately worked with ACE, but due to his dual DiffSinger release many were able to look past it and gives them an option to not pay the ACE company.).


The argument is definitely nuanced, but I've kind of always personally been on the side of not supporting the creepy products rather than the whole thing. If we get that in the weeds with it re: 3rd party banks, we'd need to boycott Vocaloid for releasing Tsuina with her creepy art style depicting a minor and what the lore of her fellow underaged group members is, which IMO is much creepier than UI's deal. So yes, I personally don't support ACE because of its devs, and I won't be purchasing 3rd party banks that are outright weird like UI or Tsuina.

Ultimately I think there's little anyone can do but "vote with your dollar" -- purchase the products whose values you agree with, and don't buy the ones whose values you don't. But I also think many people who aren't into vtuber or whatever sides of fandom may end up buying banks with unfortunate situations around them just because they like how the character sounds, without knowing anything else. So we can't just start judging anyone who buys one of these "problematic" banks. Not without them doing other creepy things, anyhow.
This.
 

Alphonse

Aspiring Fan
Mar 13, 2021
33
Yes they are; this is a common misconception. 'Pedophile' means "person sexually attracted to children", the artistic medium the child is portrayed in is irrelevant.
Words do not work this way. Like... a murderer is someone commits murder, the artistic medium the person is portrayed in is irrelevant, so authors are literally murderers? A bisexual is someone sexually attracted to more than one gender. Even if you'd otherwise be a lesbian and have never dated or looked at a man in but you like some ikemen characters you're still bisexual because the artistic medium the person is portrayed in is irrelevant?

You can't just decide every definition also includes fictional people because it didn't say otherwise.
 

Wario94

Passionate Fan
Jan 5, 2019
219
30
Words do not work this way. Like... a murderer is someone commits murder, the artistic medium the person is portrayed in is irrelevant, so authors are literally murderers? A bisexual is someone sexually attracted to more than one gender. Even if you'd otherwise be a lesbian and have never dated or looked at a man in but you like some ikemen characters you're still bisexual because the artistic medium the person is portrayed in is irrelevant?

You can't just decide every definition also includes fictional people because it didn't say otherwise.
This 100%.
 
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lIlI

Staff member
Moderator
Apr 6, 2018
932
The Lightning Strike
Words do not work this way. Like... a murderer is someone commits murder, the artistic medium the person is portrayed in is irrelevant, so authors are literally murderers? A bisexual is someone sexually attracted to more than one gender. Even if you'd otherwise be a lesbian and have never dated or looked at a man in but you like some ikemen characters you're still bisexual because the artistic medium the person is portrayed in is irrelevant?

You can't just decide every definition also includes fictional people because it didn't say otherwise.
I'm not entirely sure I understand your post; maybe I didn't explain how the word is used very well. I've attached some examples from other media that I hope will help clarify how I use the term.



(context: this one is from a scientific study on lolicons)

But if you prefer to use a different term for people sexually attracted to children (in art or otherwise); that's honestly fine. So long as we both understand each other, it doesn't matter if we use words slightly differently. After all, this is a very important topic, I don't want to derail it with a long boring discussion of verbs and syntax! I'll avoid arguing semantics any further. Just be aware that I (like several official translators) refer to lolicon under the banner of pedophilia.
 
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Wario94

Passionate Fan
Jan 5, 2019
219
30
Just be aware that I (like Viz Media's official translators) refer to lolicon under the banner of pedophilia.
That's just a mistranslation where a translator decided to translate lolicon (ロリコン) as pedophile, which is completely wrong as the actual translation for lolicon as lolicon, not pedophile. At least the anime translation translate lolicon as lolicon.
 
Sep 24, 2024
9
I think the point worth getting at here is that "lolicon" as a loanword in English has drifted considerably from its use in Japanese, specifically in regards to the relationship between lolicon and pedophilia. In Japanese, "pedophilia" is narrowly defined as a medical diagnosis, and "lolicon" encompasses more or less all sexual attraction to young girls. The early history of the lolicon boom in Japan is inseparable from the era of grey market child pornography in the 70s and 80s, something that was ultimately marginalized in favor of fictional content due to increasing legal and ethical pressure. Many English sources would have discovered the subject after this point and therefore come to the conclusion (out of ignorance)* that lolicons are naturally only attracted to fictional content, while the original meaning in Japan has stuck to this day.

In other words, "are lolicons pedophiles" is a moot point when discussing Japanese creators. The pro-lolicon argument for scenarios like this would instead be that totally simulated sexual scenarios between consenting adults are harmless, or even a form of harm reduction that prevents lolicons from targeting children. (I am skeptical of this, but it is definitely a really common belief in otaku circles.)

* Not that it would always be ignorant to use the English definition of "lolicon", since a few decades have passed and some people now identify with it.

---

Circling back to Shigure Ui though, multiple people have mentioned that most either wouldn't be aware of any controversy or wouldn't find her to be controversial, and it's a bit of a yes and no situation. While not everyone here is aware of Loli Kami Requiem, it quite frankly could be considered the most culturally relevant lolicon-related thing ever, amassing 100m views (more than almost every Vocaloid song), charting in Japan and South Korea, and being featured by numerous mainstream brands. The discourse surrounding this made headlines multiple times, and now that the dust has settled, the broad consensus seems to be something like "it's a dirty joke that doesn't really mean anything" and "probably don't show this on TV or around concerned parent groups". It's not out of the question for old tensions to flare up, but deplatforming this voicebank isn't really in the cards, most likely.

What interests me is how this reputation and the marketing behind this voicebank will impact the scene more broadly. It goes without saying that the overseas community will be totally at odds with this, but it might not be smooth sailing with all Japanese fans either, even setting the loli argument aside. Looking at the current marketing, it's as though they have every intention of writing Ui (canonically another character, 14 y/o) as an infantilized moe archetype like you'd see in a lot of slice of life shows. This goes against common wisdom that the Vocaloid fandom is unisex - a slight majority of fans are girls who like that they can relate to and project on the female characters, so the "cute" factor can't go too far without coming off as condescending to many. However, it's exactly to the taste of Shigure Ui's fandom, who could very well cross into the community in large numbers.

So if Ui is successful, would this embolden adult male otaku to take more control of the community? Or would the existing fandom effectively gatekeep them after all? There are also other factors to consider, like the usage of the "KAFU formula" and the relative unpopularity of VoiSona as an engine. Either way, this release seems bound to leave a mark in some fashion.
 

Chuchu

Luka enthusiast
Jul 18, 2018
102
It's not some doomsday event just because UI will release. Loli/shota songs, fanart, doujin/ fanfic and so on have been released before in this fandom with basically every moderately popular synth vb. Like it or not but that's it and her fandom won't change much about it. Different producers have different subject matters that are important to them and it wont be some flooding with questionable content about children than before. What's gets popular or infamous is also outside the influence of any fandom most of the time.
 
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crtstatic

MYK-IV's #1 fan
Jan 23, 2020
397
19
My computer
crtstatic.neocities.org
Her fans might buy the voicebank as merch and do nothing if they're not interested in making music or covers and that's it.
I genuinely don't think her voicebank will take off very much aside from her fans. I listened to a small amount of the VP singing, and she sounds like several other high pitched female vocals. Not very unique. You could get similar results from several other Vocaloids/SVs/literally just get AiSuu at that point. Similar voice without creepy characterization.
 

morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
851
25
Socal
morrysillusion.net
I genuinely don't think her voicebank will take off very much aside from her fans. I listened to a small amount of the VP singing, and she sounds like several other high pitched female vocals. Not very unique. You could get similar results from several other Vocaloids/SVs/literally just get AiSuu at that point. Similar voice without creepy characterization.
dont underestimate vocal synth otakus lol! we have so many samey cute anime girl voices for a reason... people buy them, despite that fact. many likely being bought without deeper knowledge on the character simply because of their design and voices (if they have an origin outside of vocal synth). as much as i dont get it, this sorta fan base is in it for a reason: cute girls with cute voices
 
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junky

Aspiring Fan
Apr 30, 2022
47
Firstly, "loliedit" and "loline.com" were based on a Japanese rapper at the time, both of which were discontinued, and free (as well as UTAU as a whole being free, all of its voicebanks and culture being user developed, and Ameya themselves disappearing for years and never actually sharing / participating in that content themselves).
"Loliedit" and "loline.com" were based on a Japanese rapper at the time-" I am aware. lol. The name of the rapper in question was literally "LOLI.COM" though, it's very obvious what his name was referencing. That + the fact Ameya is a developer and the creator of the UTAU engine themselves instead of a third party, just like that one ACE developer, how is that any different?
 
Sep 24, 2024
9
It's not some doomsday event just because UI will release. Loli/shota songs, fanart, doujin/ fanfic and so on have been released before in this fandom with basically every moderately popular synth vb. Like it or not but that's it and her fandom won't change much about it. Different producers have different subject matters that are important to them and it wont be some flooding with questionable content about children than before. What's gets popular or infamous is also outside the influence of any fandom most of the time.
Loli/shota stuff in Vocaloid has been past its prime for a hot minute, really! Most of that energy has transferred over to the Voiceroid community or elsewhere at this point. Now that you mention it, it's actually been a very long time since I've seen a purely singing voicebank with a good likelihood of attracting that sort of fanbase. I'm mostly hoping Ui's impact is going to be more interesting than just this.

"Loliedit" and "loline.com" were based on a Japanese rapper at the time-" I am aware. lol. The name of the rapper in question was literally "LOLI.COM" though, it's very obvious what his name was referencing. That + the fact Ameya is a developer and the creator of the UTAU engine themselves instead of a third party, just like that one ACE developer, how is that any different?
Well... as already mentioned, the project is very old, dead, and no one is really benefiting from it anymore. LOLI.COM is basically only involved in UTAU history at all because he released the world's first CV voicebank as a joke. Loline Com stopped being a thing as soon as Ameya started making their own voicebanks, and the VP himself left the internet a long time ago. Boycotting the entire UTAU engine over this seems like it would be a far more difficult effort with a lot less of a clear gain.

There's only so much time and effort that people can spend on protesting (there are way more fun things to do in this community, after all), so it's only natural that just a few issues at any given time will make their way to the forefront. Even the predicted backlash against Ui ended up being overshadowed by Pusu returning that same day.
 

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