Consensus on explicit songs
- Thread starter Kurenai_Akari
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But is that really a problem though? We all have our opinions in regards to the matter & there are several people who agree with you.
It's not really a problem that I'm of the minority per se, but it seems there's not a single soul on here that at least understands my point.
WintermintP
WintermintP
Everyonr has different experiences, upbringings and veiwpoints that lead to different opinions. Cherish the things that make you unique.
Well then, I guess what makes me unique is that I'm able to write metal tracks that aren't NSFW.
WintermintP
WintermintP
I think....it depends....on the context, the lyrics and the producer....
I feel like a lot of songs may go into murky territory, as is the case with MaretuP. A lot of his songs were an indicator of how he glorified mental illness I feel and now see how it played out...Not a shining example.
Also in the case of Powapowa where a lot of his songs were basically him calling out for help before he left his world, sometimes you gotta wonder how concerning the subject matter really is and what the author's intentions were.
Since many people do not have an outlet other than creative media, you can see the subject matter at its purest, when the author expresses it themselves.
As long as it isn't hate speech, or dubious stuff with underage children, or having to do with assaulting someone.
Edit: Or glorifying suicide and/or mental illness.
I'm over the "mainstream songs only talk about sex xd" and sex repulsive media mentalities I had when I was younger, so I don't really mind nsfw pervy songs nor I let that influence how I perceive a Vocaloid character anyways. You have to be careful and realize from which point of view it is after all.
Also Masa is pretty brave for talking about weed and prostitution, both very taboo subjects in Japan.
hope this doesn't offend anyone, it's just my onion.
I feel like a lot of songs may go into murky territory, as is the case with MaretuP. A lot of his songs were an indicator of how he glorified mental illness I feel and now see how it played out...Not a shining example.
Also in the case of Powapowa where a lot of his songs were basically him calling out for help before he left his world, sometimes you gotta wonder how concerning the subject matter really is and what the author's intentions were.
Since many people do not have an outlet other than creative media, you can see the subject matter at its purest, when the author expresses it themselves.
As long as it isn't hate speech, or dubious stuff with underage children, or having to do with assaulting someone.
Edit: Or glorifying suicide and/or mental illness.
I'm over the "mainstream songs only talk about sex xd" and sex repulsive media mentalities I had when I was younger, so I don't really mind nsfw pervy songs nor I let that influence how I perceive a Vocaloid character anyways. You have to be careful and realize from which point of view it is after all.
Also Masa is pretty brave for talking about weed and prostitution, both very taboo subjects in Japan.
hope this doesn't offend anyone, it's just my onion.
Lyrics aren't really the most important aspect of music to me so I'm fairly indifferent. However I strongly believe in freedom of speech and artistic expression so there's no way I'll say these songs shouldn't exist.
I think that many people did not understand my first message. After all, I picked "Like some songs but not all of them".
It's one thing when a song has taboo lyrics because that's an artist's message that is just being conveyed by a VOCALOID. And I'm clearly against censorship of art. But drawing porn or other NSFW content (like VOCALOIDs in n*zi uniforms which can pop up in Google images) of a character that comes from the music industry is just abuse. Sure, it takes some effort to do that but there is just no artistic meaning behind it other than "I want to f*ck this character". It is possible that lonely people are longing for sex and therefore want to "get more" out of characters they like, but when they upload it online it becomes a provocation to the fans because they like those characters in the way that is officially portrayed and stated in the ToS.
Of course, it's not possible for companies like Crypton that only have 30 employees (according to Wikipedia) to track down all the abuse of their characters.
Lyrics are another thing. As I mentioned above, the VOCALOID software is an instrument. Why should artists use instruments that limit their creativity? As long as it is no hate speech against my people, you can express whatever is on your mind. And as long as it is not that kind of a song, like the Yuki song mentioned above, the VOCALOID character won't be abused either. If the music and voice tuning are nice, I will listen to it.
@WintermintP I partially agree with you. However, if an artist uses NSFW lyrics or not depends on his background. You can't expect a depressed artist to write funny lyrics. I'm comfortable with NSFW lyrics because I'm curious about all kinds of things in the world. As long as it's not some suicide propaganda song that goes like "KYS, KYS, KYS" and is not a hate speech, then I won't feel uncomfortable. As it has developed over time with bands like ACDC and Metallica, metal has become interesting for people with dark backgrounds.
While I don't recall to know any VOCALOID producers who only write songs without NSFW content, I still know a lot of metal songs like "Nothing I can't do" by OkameP (my most favorite song btw) and "Palette" by Yuyoyuppe/meola. In general, there are a lot of OkameP songs that are sad and/or mention the death but are not NSFW.
But I have to say that you are truly kind of unique if you are the only VOCALOID producer who makes happy metal songs.
It's one thing when a song has taboo lyrics because that's an artist's message that is just being conveyed by a VOCALOID. And I'm clearly against censorship of art. But drawing porn or other NSFW content (like VOCALOIDs in n*zi uniforms which can pop up in Google images) of a character that comes from the music industry is just abuse. Sure, it takes some effort to do that but there is just no artistic meaning behind it other than "I want to f*ck this character". It is possible that lonely people are longing for sex and therefore want to "get more" out of characters they like, but when they upload it online it becomes a provocation to the fans because they like those characters in the way that is officially portrayed and stated in the ToS.
Of course, it's not possible for companies like Crypton that only have 30 employees (according to Wikipedia) to track down all the abuse of their characters.
Lyrics are another thing. As I mentioned above, the VOCALOID software is an instrument. Why should artists use instruments that limit their creativity? As long as it is no hate speech against my people, you can express whatever is on your mind. And as long as it is not that kind of a song, like the Yuki song mentioned above, the VOCALOID character won't be abused either. If the music and voice tuning are nice, I will listen to it.
@WintermintP I partially agree with you. However, if an artist uses NSFW lyrics or not depends on his background. You can't expect a depressed artist to write funny lyrics. I'm comfortable with NSFW lyrics because I'm curious about all kinds of things in the world. As long as it's not some suicide propaganda song that goes like "KYS, KYS, KYS" and is not a hate speech, then I won't feel uncomfortable. As it has developed over time with bands like ACDC and Metallica, metal has become interesting for people with dark backgrounds.
While I don't recall to know any VOCALOID producers who only write songs without NSFW content, I still know a lot of metal songs like "Nothing I can't do" by OkameP (my most favorite song btw) and "Palette" by Yuyoyuppe/meola. In general, there are a lot of OkameP songs that are sad and/or mention the death but are not NSFW.
But I have to say that you are truly kind of unique if you are the only VOCALOID producer who makes happy metal songs.
Oh well here I go.
So my opinion on this is really simple: A lot of people who do songs with f*cked up lyrics have a distorted, bad feeling to their music, and that's what I don't like.
So here I go-- I don't like MARETU, I don't like kikuo, I don't like MASA, I don't like GHOST, I don't like Creep-P, I don't like Crusher-P, RINGO, Circus (Yeah maybe I just don't like english producers, but they are all making f'd up songs it's not my fault \_シ_/ )
However, exceptions: I like rerulili and holy lance explosion boy, even the PDX PV, 'cause the music is good. I like Giga-P(Gigantic OTN, + Boy), I like minato(Spice!, RIP=RELEASE) I like wowoka, I like Hachi
In the middle of this, comes the "anime" producers, like Akuno-P, Kurage-P, Jin, and Nyanyannya, who have some pretty f'd up parts, sometimes weird sounding music, but actually tells a story with ups, downs, seen-some-shit parts but also more legit parts (just like animes like Tokyo Ghoul or Black Butler)
But I approve what ZAR-PARTY said, I think that everything that is not created to be hentai should not get hentai-ised (don't know if this works xD) like anime characters or Vocaloids, in this case. For me, Vocaloids are like my brothers and sisters, so Vocaloid hentai is a no-no. But sexually themed songs don't really matter to me. It's like actors in a movie, they are characters.
So my opinion on this is really simple: A lot of people who do songs with f*cked up lyrics have a distorted, bad feeling to their music, and that's what I don't like.
So here I go-- I don't like MARETU, I don't like kikuo, I don't like MASA, I don't like GHOST, I don't like Creep-P, I don't like Crusher-P, RINGO, Circus (Yeah maybe I just don't like english producers, but they are all making f'd up songs it's not my fault \_シ_/ )
However, exceptions: I like rerulili and holy lance explosion boy, even the PDX PV, 'cause the music is good. I like Giga-P(Gigantic OTN, + Boy), I like minato(Spice!, RIP=RELEASE) I like wowoka, I like Hachi
In the middle of this, comes the "anime" producers, like Akuno-P, Kurage-P, Jin, and Nyanyannya, who have some pretty f'd up parts, sometimes weird sounding music, but actually tells a story with ups, downs, seen-some-shit parts but also more legit parts (just like animes like Tokyo Ghoul or Black Butler)
But I approve what ZAR-PARTY said, I think that everything that is not created to be hentai should not get hentai-ised (don't know if this works xD) like anime characters or Vocaloids, in this case. For me, Vocaloids are like my brothers and sisters, so Vocaloid hentai is a no-no. But sexually themed songs don't really matter to me. It's like actors in a movie, they are characters.
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Yeah, agreed. Art is art, and Vocaloid is used to communicate the producers' words into song-form more or less. Can't help if they're in a bad place, have a darker sense of humor, or anything like that. Plus, there's tons of genres that overlap in Vocaloid which is pretty noice because it has the variety that I can't find in mainstream music anymore. Then again, I listen to the darker, "adult" theme, kinda taboo-y songs because A. they sound good (Machigerita, Reruilli), B. usually tuned well (Giga-P, Circus), C. I can relate to it/it's way too catchy (MARETU, Ghost).
I guess I'm indifferent? It depends on the song. Gomenne Gomenne appeals to me while that old song someone made where Sweet Ann graphically describes the state of her vagina while the listener has sex with her doesn't. It depends more on the quality of the song and whether it manages to be interesting.
There are other reasons as to why I don't like those guys, but I happen to be a western producer as well, and I've written mostly uplifting metalcore tracks lately.
WintermintP
EDIT: I'm just going to get a little off topic for a moment and quote Vocaloid Wiki just so I can show more different perspectives.
Where I stand still stands. Censorship is inevitable. Something will always come across as infringing on someone else's rights, and something will always come across as discriminatory and so on and so forth. There will always be people that will oppress what one says, especially if it's the truth (I say "especially" because I've suffered this so many times myself), just because what has been said is not likeable. Someone has to speak the truth, yes, but it will always be oppressed and fall on deaf ears just because it's an unpopular point of view. It will always be censored and hated upon just because people don't like to hear it, even though it's the truth. So why is it that these things are deemed awful, and these morbid songs that were written just for the hell of it are completely okay, when it's one of the most dishonest and pretentious things that anyone can possibly do? That's what I'm struggling to understand here.
If you're suffering from a lot of angst and you really need to express how terrible the state of the world is, that's completely fine. What's not fine is when you're exploring these morbid topics just for the fun of it. Politics and violence are serious topics and must be treated as such. If your thoughts on the state of the world are genuine and you need to get it out there, by all means, go for it, but you can't write any song just for the sake of evoking a reaction. It's just like how trolling is not tolerated on most sites.
I'm going to end the post with the obvious. There is NO SUCH THING as freedom of speech. The whole CONCEPT is NOT REAL. An authority that oppresses the freedom of speech will always exist and it's inevitable because it will always be misused. There is no "good faith" when it comes to this.
WintermintP
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I don't feel like some of the people write explicit songs for the fun of it. I've written personal stories without explicit content with it not because I get a kick out of it, or laugh about it, but because it happens in reality and I struggle with my own personal demons. Of course, I never go too far because comfort levels, but I'm pretty sure a lot of explicit songs happen because it's a way for them to cope with their issues. It's known that several producers struggle with mental illness, personal problems, etc. and so for them they might write these explicit songs as a way to communicate their thoughts. It's difficult to explain, but, I guess what I'm saying is that if you're struggling with stuff, you might write about darker topics because it's on your mind, not because it's funny. I'm sure there's one person who may just enjoy those dark topics and some who troll it, but I don't feel like producers who write explicit songs do it for a reaction from the audience.
TL/DR: I believe that most explicit songs are written not because producers find it appealing/funny, but because inner demons, life, personal thoughts/experiences, and it's what comes out on paper (well, I guess the Vocaloid program here but same thing).
That's true. If you look at the biographies of rappers, you'll notice that their childhoods were all about problems with their parents, drugs and abuse. That's what breeds the bad blood.
I didn't think of it like that, good point.
I feel like this thread is steering into the debate that's been happening on YouTube about whether or not to support movie directors/musicians if they've done something horrible in real life, can you separate the art from the artist? (As in, somebody does something illegal or something, will you throw out your CDs/DVDs or will you still enjoy the piece though you've lost respect?) But in the case of Vocaloid producers, I feel it's almost impossible to know what their reasoning for making a naughty/dark song is. You can't prove if it's cause they're being edgy or if they have some messed up past.
I don't think it's possible for everyone to agree on this issue. It's too related to "core moral values" for everyone to change their mind, though I think we can provide different perspectives. I personally like to listen to dark songs (I have a limit, though, if it's too real vs clearly "fun" fantasy), cause I can relate to it. I can't relate to love songs or happy party all night songs, since I don't do that kind of thing. But I've suffered and can relate to songs about that, it makes me remember that others have hit rock bottom like me. ^^; And I like action, fantasy, and horror just for the plain fact that I find it cool (stuff like fake blood or cool vampires). If the song is metal and about dark stuff, I feel motivated to work and feel more alive cause of the energy in the song, since I am boring and tired a lot. It gets my imagination going. I hope that makes sense.
Well for those songs, there's nothing anyone can do about that. There definitely have been songs that are morbid just for the hell of it, but the songs that describe the producer's own struggles is fine. I've written some dark songs about the state of the world myself, so I won't complain about that.
There have been songs that are great lyrically despite their profanities, and I can see that. So my main complaint has more to do with the intent of the songs than it has to do with the songs themselves.
WintermintP
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That said, I suppose lyrics can add or take away from a song. I'm sure we've all listened to a song that has an F-Bomb that's placed in a way that just makes you cringe. Or on the opposite end "edgy" lyrics can give a song it's overall identity. Take the song "Straight Outta Compton" by N.W.A for example; it probably wouldn't have the same impact to the listener if they were rapping about mac n cheese.
i dont really care much, i tend to enjoy both dark explicit songs and happy cheery songs as long as i like the tune pretty much. im all for creative freedom, though i do have my own personal line when it comes down to it. i don't really like it when VOCALOIDS or UTAUloids who are explicitly stated to be underage like Yuki and Una are used for sexual songs, though even then i kind of just go "i dont like this, im not going to waste anymore of my time" and leave. If they're not hurting anyone and just doing something they love, i don't mind that.