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VOCALOID Question about Rin & Len Act 1

CV420

Ultimate Lurker
May 23, 2018
22
California
www.youtube.com
I wanted to know about their choppiness and why exactly they're like that. I know initially it's because Crypton rushed their development and wanted them out on the shelves ASAP because of Miku's popularity, but what in the the voicebank itself makes the samples so short/cut off? Is V2 similar to Utau, where you have to "oto" each sample and mark where the cut off line starts and ends? I was thinking maybe they messed up there. Or is it just because the voice samples themselves are pretty short and weren't recorded right?

Just genuinely curious since I've found tuning Act 1 to be really really easy compared to Act 2, Append and V4. I really wish they weren't so choppy, otherwise Act 1 would be my favorite Kagamine voicebanks.
 
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BenHo

Aspiring Fan
Apr 8, 2018
83
I know that at one point there was information floating around the fandom about ways to extract the samples from a voicebank. (this is how we learned that one of Sonika's samples contains skype noises outside of the part of the sample heard in the Vocaloid editor) if someone were too try that on the act1 banks, they might find something. If it's not the samples the next thing to check would be the "oto" file, but as far as I know, nobody's been able to extract that.
 

CV420

Ultimate Lurker
May 23, 2018
22
California
www.youtube.com
Hmm, interesting. I wasn't even aware extracting samples was a thing! It may be possible the "oto" file is programmed wrong. It also makes me think, if people can extract samples, is it possible to insert ones? :o

But anyway, if someone were to open Act 1's "oto" files, maybe they could adjust the settings to fix the choppiness (if opening the oto is even possible in the first place). Are people still actively looking into Vocaloid voicebanks like this? Tbh I'm very interested in how this is done haha.
 

uncreepy

👵Escaped from the retirement home
Apr 9, 2018
1,618
Vocaloid is patented technology, so I don't assume you can do the same stuff with it you could with UTAU in terms of editing the samples. Even if you could, I don't think Yamaha would want you to mess with the sound source. S:

If it's any help, all of the Cryptonloids are getting an update "soon" (allegedly around Luka's anniversary which is Jan 30). They are going back and have edited the original V1 or V2 voicebanks for each character in order to capture the personality of how people originally perceived their voices to be, but are using a plug-in similar to VocaListener for realistic tuning and have edited each phoneme to get rid of muddy sounds and make the vowels very clear and understandable. (It's being called an "Append", but I don't know if it will be V4X Append or something). So... maybe just wait for that; I assume it will fix up said issues with the Kagamine's original banks. (The updates are confirmed to be able to work with Vocaloid 5.)
 

BenHo

Aspiring Fan
Apr 8, 2018
83
The extraction was more of a one-way thing, as Vocaloid voicebanks aren't open source. While people were able to find a way to detect and rip the audio files the banks use for samples, reverse engineering it to insert new samples would take a LOT more hacking.

But like uncreepy said, according to WAT, the upcoming updates for all the cryptonloids are supposed to be closer in tone to the original voices while also offering the versatility of the V3/V4 versions, so hopefully we'll finally be able to use something of an improved Act1.
 

CV420

Ultimate Lurker
May 23, 2018
22
California
www.youtube.com
Oh, that's right. I remember reading about Crypton updates, but I had no idea it was to update old voicebanks. I assumed it was another thing associated with the V4x banks. What great timing for me to be into Act 1, then haha. I'm excited!
 

BenHo

Aspiring Fan
Apr 8, 2018
83
From what's been tweeted, the updates seem to be for the new V5 engine but are meant to replicate the sound of the original voicebanks, albeit with the necessary improvements to make them compatible with the new engine (ie: additional phonemes and transitional samples). That being said, we still haven't HEARD any of these upcoming updates, so how faithful they'll be to the original banks is yet to be seen. That being said, as someone who would like to see the Act1 banks revitalized, I'm trying to be hopeful.
 
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CV420

Ultimate Lurker
May 23, 2018
22
California
www.youtube.com
Yeah, Crypton's statements in the past about their voicebanks being more true to the originals (Kagamine V4 Power), when they're actually just Append 2.0, tone wise. I've always wanted Rin and Len to go back to their original tones, I'll be ecstatic if these updates are anything like Act 1. But Crypton being Crypton, who knows.
 

uncreepy

👵Escaped from the retirement home
Apr 9, 2018
1,618
That being said, we still haven't HEARD any of these upcoming updates, so how faithful they'll be to the original banks is yet to be seen. That being said, as someone who would like to see the Act1 banks revitalized, I'm trying to be hopeful.
Actually, we have heard a lot of examples of Miku (talking for Shinkalion and the STV news collab and for concert intros, rapping with pinoko, singing for the Tokyo 150 Years) and had one for Luka (at the Kawasaki Jazz 2018 event, but the public wasn't able to hear it). It makes me think maybe they'll release each bank one at a time if they aren't "ready" yet. Wat mentioned an emotional song with Kaito and the Kagamines, but I've yet to see it?
 

BenHo

Aspiring Fan
Apr 8, 2018
83
Ah, my mistake. I didn't realize those instances of Miku were using her new bank. (Then again, since Miku Append has existed since the V2 era, I'm used to Miku sounding a lot of different ways and just kind of accept it)
 

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