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Utatane Lulu's creator?

Apr 11, 2020
19
Please turn away and ignore this if you cannot handle such triggers.

I saw on UTAU Wiki 2.0 that Utatane Lulu was discontinued. I've seen that Crecia Selestawa was completely removed from the wiki due to her creator's behavior (which will probably be discussed elsewhere). But as for Lulu, the reason is that her voice provider committed suicide. Upon hearing about this tragedy, I searched everywhere to understand what's going on. But I couldn't see anything anywhere, other than all of their accounts being deleted. If anyone knows, I just want to know about what happened and proof that they really did it, because news like this is very shocking for me especially in this community.
 
Apr 11, 2020
19
What?! That's just wrong. Suicide is a tragic, serious act that you can't undo, and causes grief to everyone around you. (It hasn't happened to me yet, but I became aware after what happened with Etika...) Just the mention of it causes a great deal of worry, only for them to reveal that this person lied about their suicide. Such an act is disrespectful to actual suicide victims and those who have recovered from it. If anyone has any information about what happened, or why they did such a thing, let me know.
 

Krin

UTAU is my religion!!!
Feb 28, 2019
182
the UTAU community is definitely a bit messy at the moment and i'm still really shocked about everything that's come up only within the past (3???) days... I also agree and hope that the wiki gets updated soon with the correct story.

Needless to say but I'm extremely, ?? angry and shocked and have a lot of mixed feelings about this week of UTAU drama.
And about Canon; while I do think everyone's entitled to their own opinions it's still very shocking/disappointing to learn these things about a very prominent figure in the UTAU community. I don't support Canon's views, but I've also got a lot of mixed feelings about people cancelling and wanting to quit using Ritsu and all. I want to separate the person from the voicebank (similiar to the whole crecia drama, but i never was fond of her vb anyways) but... Its weird.

Also recent drama about both Ruko and Ritsu's characters both having offensive terms applying to gender... My honest thoughts are, they were originally created as a joke. Since then the UTAU wiki has updated (at least I know in Ruko's case) gender and any other information to be non-offensive. I know a lot of people (including myself) are hesitant on using those two now. It does kinda suck because Ruko has been my go-to fav voicebank (along with Kohaku Merry of course :)) and i've use them since forever, and I've got messy feelings now because of the above.

I'm also very glad Teto has the design she has currently...

Seriously i picked the worst time to come back to the community lol.
 
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Stardust

Vocal Synth Enthusiast
Aug 14, 2020
173
I could change the wording to something like “Lulu Utatane has been discontinued due to drama.” or “Lulu Utatane has been discontinued due to the voice provider faking death.”
I think something like "Lulu Utatane has been discontinued due to controversy surrounding the voice provider faking death." Might work a little better and explain the situation better as well. "Controversy" might not be the best word, but no other words come to mind at the moment that would describe it. That is what I get for just waking up I suppose. If anyone has a better idea, please do chime in.
 

ikaroll

I wanna scream
Jan 23, 2020
453
My computer
I think something like "Lulu Utatane has been discontinued due to controversy surrounding the voice provider faking death." Might work a little better and explain the situation better as well. "Controversy" might not be the best word, but no other words come to mind at the moment that would describe it. That is what I get for just waking up I suppose. If anyone has a better idea, please do chime in.
I think that’d actually work. It gets straight to the point. (I can’t think of another word either :/ )
 

___

Oct 8, 2019
1,546
I think the wiki article should be reverted back to whatever it originally was, the voicebanks are still up and were not discontinued.


And about Canon; while I do think everyone's entitled to their own opinions it's still very shocking/disappointing to learn these things about a very prominent figure in the UTAU community. I don't support Canon's views, but I've also got a lot of mixed feelings about people cancelling and wanting to quit using Ritsu and all. I want to separate the person from the voicebank (similiar to the whole crecia drama, but i never was fond of her vb anyways) but... Its weird.
Ah I hope this doesn't come across as me arguing >o> just sharing a view point of mine. Personally I don't think the two can be separated. Even if someone were to express their fondess of Ritsu the responsible thing to do is to fully embrace and acknowledge Canon's actions, just for the sake of people hurt by such viewpoints.

Also dunno of you knew but just a heads up, people directly involved in Crecia's creation were hurt and used by her vp in this case and are uncomfortable with Crecia, she sorta...embodies all the years of hurt and abuse her vp has cauzed it's really best to...just leave her be ^^'
 

Rylitah

kiyoteru enthusiast
Staff member
Moderator
Apr 8, 2018
575
Crecia is so closely linked/tied with her VP (and was used by said VP during abusive behavior) that it's really impossible to separate the two no matter how much you like her (if you did) orz.

With Ritsu it's a bit... different since Ritsu's been such a mainstream community figure for so long, but my personal thought on that is there are thousands of UTAU out there, you don't have to feel loyalty to any specific one. There's probably a few out there that sound just like Ritsu as well that don't get nearly the same amount of recognition. I think it's an opportune moment for people to browse less popular UTAU and give them a boost in light of everything. Ritsu probably isn't going to just go away because of his status, but I think it'd be nice to make the VP of a less popular UTAU's day.
 
Apr 11, 2020
19
After seeing everything that's happened, I just want to voice my own point of view.
For one, I don't hate Canon and Namine Ritsu. Canon just supported a politician (just the mention of about ANY politician causes rabid outrage between both parties) and even apologised. Ritsu didn't even have pro-Trump views when he was created. I still like Ritsu and this incident hasn't soiled my perspective on him.

But as for Crecia Selestawa, she has been utterly stained in my eyes after her creator turned out to be emotionally abusing her friends for a long time while under the radar. She was one of the UTAUloids popular enough to appear in lots of medleys, but seeing her now just rubs me the wrong way. Unlike Canon, Crecia has a clear connection with her creator as Hanabi used Crecia as one of her tools for her abuse: by making everything have to be about Crecia and using her UTAUloid as an idealized fantasy version of her. Hanabi's friends turned victims hate seeing Crecia now since she's a symbol of their abuser.

That reminds me, I saw a recent medley which certainly hasn't aged well. (I don't blame the medley's creator since they didn't know about the news back then.) It contains both Crecia Selestawa and Sakasa Shiki (the latter's creator was one of the abuse victims of the former's), but also oddly portrays Crecia with a demonic raspy voice (since she represents Hakaine Maiko in the original song). Clearly this was a coincidence, but upon watching it again I began to think "Wait, you knew all along?" and even then I can't help but imagine that this was a final middle finger to Hanabi.
 

ikaroll

I wanna scream
Jan 23, 2020
453
My computer
If you dont mind me sharing some of my opinions on both situations-
About Crecia: I never knew about her until this thread popped up, but it reminds of what happened with Butch Hartman and Danny Phantom/FOP. The creator is too far linked with the creation to the point where it’s hard to separate creator from creation. For an UTAU like Ritsu, because of how long he’s been around, it’d be easy to just think of him as a separate entity from Canon. But it sounds like with Crecia, the VP was using her AS her identity, so at this point, the UTAU is just ruined for many people.
 

Krin

UTAU is my religion!!!
Feb 28, 2019
182
**not sure if shoving this entire post into a spoiler as a trigger warning is necessary but better safe than sorry!!
Ah I hope this doesn't come across as me arguing >o> just sharing a view point of mine. Personally I don't think the two can be separated. Even if someone were to express their fondess of Ritsu the responsible thing to do is to fully embrace and acknowledge Canon's actions, just for the sake of people hurt by such viewpoints.

That's pretty much the same way I'm feeling too. It's definitely something I'll need to think through more before I go posting covers with him though. Personally I'm not sure if I can separate the two so I completely agree.

Also dunno of you knew but just a heads up, people directly involved in Crecia's creation were hurt and used by her vp in this case and are uncomfortable with Crecia, she sorta...embodies all the years of hurt and abuse her vp has cauzed it's really best to...just leave her be ^^'
But as for Crecia Selestawa, she has been utterly stained in my eyes after her creator turned out to be emotionally abusing her friends for a long time while under the radar. She was one of the UTAUloids popular enough to appear in lots of medleys, but seeing her now just rubs me the wrong way. Unlike Canon, Crecia has a clear connection with her creator as Hanabi used Crecia as one of her tools for her abuse: by making everything have to be about Crecia and using her UTAUloid as an idealized fantasy version of her. Hanabi's friends turned victims hate seeing Crecia now since she's a symbol of their abuser.
Yeah I heard about everything when it first started to surface a few weeks ago... and feel terrible for those who were abused/made uncomfortable. Looking back on my previous comment I want to re-word it a bit; personally I see the Hanabi/Crecia drama as on a completely different level from the Canon/Ritsu drama, (I meant similar in my last post by users not wanting to use the vbs because of the creator's actions/words) and I absolutely agree with the discontinuation of users using Crecia's voicebank(s?).

I know my comment on the situation was quick and might have come off as me brushing it off/lumping it into the same thing as Canon's drama so I wanted to re-word it in case it got taken the wrong way. But I might be overthinking that though :,)
 
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Apr 11, 2020
19
So... from the information I've seen, it's basically this:
  • All of this started when Canon said she supported Trump and everyone was outraged.
  • KaynTheWolf (creator of Utatane Lulu and Twinkle) defended Canon and had a heated argument with Mia, even calling her ableist slurs. In the end he said he'd be taking his own life.
  • Everyone made callout posts towards those they thought were related to Kayn's "suicide", specifically several furry UTAU creators.
  • The Vocaloid producer Moros (known for his ...disturbing topics for his music) sent his bandwagon of fans to attack Mia, but was defeated and deleted his Twitter.
  • RossCuth (creator of ROSCO) found out that Kayn was still alive after messaging him and his mother.
  • A lot of UTAU creators said they'd pack their bags and leave the community.
  • There was also an incident unrelated to Kayn in which someone named Kurukuru (not to be confused with Kurukuru Suuzi, who hasn't been active on Twitter since August 25th) was bullied for being "white" and faking being Japanese. In response to the bullying, they left Twitter and shut their UTAU down.
Oh jeez... so much horrible stuff going on. Thank goodness I never planned on getting a Twitter account, since I don't want to get roped into this war. I feel guilty for being a bystander in all this, but being bullied throughout my younger years has caused me a great deal of trauma, and I want to stay out of this situation for the sake of my own sanity.
 
Sep 21, 2019
1,401
For one, I don't hate Canon and Namine Ritsu. Canon just supported a politician (just the mention of about ANY politician causes rabid outrage between both parties) and even apologised. Ritsu didn't even have pro-Trump views when he was created. I still like Ritsu and this incident hasn't soiled my perspective on him.
Yeah. I’m with you on that, honestly. And I also just don’t think it’s any of my business who someone does/doesn’t support… I haven’t seen exactly what Canon said that could’ve gotten everyone so heated but I still hold that I shouldn’t involve myself in a total strangers life or choices—it’s not my business. :yohioloid_lili: My perspective on Ritsu hasn’t changed, and I can’t see it changing unless something extreme happens (like the Crecia and Lulu situations).

Edit on August 2023: I no longer stand behind the opinion I have previously expressed here. I feel very mixed about Ritsu and certainly won't be engaging with content featuring him, and I feel very iffy about Canon given the rather checkered/politically incorrect past of the Vipperloids.

However, on the subject of Crecia, I think that’s an extremely different situation. From my understanding, Crecia’s VP did do some very bad things (an understatement, but you all get my point) and because I presume she’s so closely linked to her UTAU I think discontinuing use of their UTAU was the right thing to do because her UTAU will permanently be tarnished with this and there were actual victims involved in Crecia’s case. (I can’t quite recall what happened, but from what I remember it was really… awful.)
 
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Apr 11, 2020
19
Update.
So... Kayn made an apology. To be honest, I was outraged by what he did, but I never hated Kayn himself. He said that he really did go through mental troubles and really did have suicidal thoughts (as someone struggling with anxiety and insecurities I can sympathize with that). Kayn would've actually did it had RossCuth not alerted Kayn's mother. Several people thought lying about suicide was unforgivable, so they told him to leave. GreySlate has recently been making posts calling out the people involved in Kayn's decision and the "ableists" who still hate him. (Though Grey has a history of righteous crusading against other members of the community, such as with Makku.) Though there are some people who want to stop the fighting, since they don't want Kayn to turn into a source of drama considering he's still recovering at this point. I agree with them, avoiding conflict was the reason I never made a Twitter account in the first place.
 

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