Which one, Synthersizer V studio or vocaloid 5?

[Nin10doLink2depic]

Hi vocaverse network. I am new to the forums and really in general to the whole vocaloid/synthersizer V area of discussion. I am not sure if this is the right place to post this thread and all my assumptions are based on one or two days of looking at some videos regarding vocaloid and Syntheszier V studio pro. I narrowed it down to these 2 programs but I believe there are a few more programs based on vocaloid which I have not really looked into.

I use cubase as my DAW and make orchestral, synth, rock type music. vocaloid seems like a good choice if you want some vocals in your own tracks, though it does seem to be difficult to get good results.

I have watched a few videos on vocaloid 5 from the vocaloid/Yamaha site and watched a few videos from dream tonics Synthesizer V as well.

From what I understand Yamaha’s Vocaloid 5 & Synthesizer V studio pro are very similar programs. Vocaloid 5 comes with 4 voices banks included and Synthesizer V studio pro you need to get a bundle but you only seem to get one voice, is that correct? How good are the included voice instruments from vocaloid 5 compared to Synthesizer V studio voices?

Is it possible to use voice banks from say Vocaloid 5 in Synthesizer V studio or vice versa?

Vocaloid 5 seems to integrate some what well into cubase, how well does Synthesizer V studio integrate with cubase?

What are the main differences between these two programs? Is there many or not so many differences? In your view what does one program do better than the other? I think Synthesizer studio pro is cheaper but you don't get any voice banks is this correct?

If you was looking for a good female japanese vocaloid voice bank that could also sing english and you could only choose one which one would you recommend?

I should add I was a bit confused by the word “tune”, for example, “you tune Miku Hatsune well”. To me tune means something like, how well someone can use the instrument be that dynamics or expression and what not, like someone using CC (continuous controllers). Even on the dreamtonics website 04 Tuning mentions parameters that one can control a bit like CC so tuning to me is how well the individual can use the parameters to get the results they want.

I use cubase, so for me Vocaloid 5 seemed like a good place to start but upon hearing about the synthesiser V studio I got a bit confused as I thought there was only one vocaloid program type but as it turns out reading the vocaloid wiki there is a whole history regarding this product and various programs and voice bank libraries and what not.

Another thing from what I read on the wiki is that using these vocaloid programs to sing English is much more difficult than say them singing Japanese so I have to take that into consideration also.

So really what would be the best one of these programs to start on based on their price, features, future proof, compatibility with one and other and compatibility with cubase.

Any help would be appreciated thanks

 

[ikaroll]

Vocaloid and SynthV are two separate pieces of software.

Vocaloid is a commercial product completely. SynthV is a commercial product as well, but the basic software and lite versions of the voices can be downloaded for free.

In regards to tuning, its basically changing the pitch of the voice by drawing curves in the parameters in the vocal synth you use.

I would suggest starting out with the free programs like UTAU and SynthV, since they cost nothing to start with and if it turns out that you do not like how vocal synths work, then $200+ would not go down the drain

As far as I know, Vocaloid5 is compatible with Cubase (I believe V5 comes with a version of the Vocaloid4 editor but is a plug-in for Cubase and can work with V5 voices, but don't trust me on that, as I do not have V5 yet-)

I hope this answered any questions you have-

 

[lIlI]

Welcome to the forums! In my opinion, the biggest gap between Vocaloid5 and SynthesizerV is language and price.

SynthesizerV is significantly cheaper, in fact there's a slimmed down version of the software available for completely free, and five free voices.

However, there is currently only one English voice for the software. This is Eleanor Forte, a youthful female vocalist. She is slightly outdated, but free as well. I would recommend SynthesizerV if you just want to try out synthesized voices - you have nothing to lose here.

Vocaloid5 is more focused on English-speaking markets. You get two English voices bundled with the software and there's a large backlog of compatible voicebanks in a variety of languages, timbres and styles. This the only software with bilingual Japanese and English speaking vocalists currently.

However, it's one of the most expensive vocal synths available, and the starter voices aren't optional.


Something else to consider is continued support and development for the software. Many rumours have circulated suggesting Yamaha is stepping back from Vocaloid development, as new voices have been much scarcer than usual. However, updates continue to come regularly, and Vocaloid has the advantage of over 40 vocalist options from its many years on the market.

Meanwhile SynthesizerV is going through a period of significant growth, rapidly developing and moving into cutting-edge technologies, like AI. However, they currently show little interest in English speaking markets, and have much fewer voicebanks overall under their belt.

So in conclusion, it depends on what type of voice you're looking for! I recommend going through the Vocaloid wikia's Vocaloid4 and 5 voicebanks and listening to their results, as well as SynthV's options, and seeing which ones you think would best fit your music.

 

[KingPapillon]

I would highly highly highly recommend you start with SynthV, it is way easier to get good results with much less effort, and a license for the full SynthV Pro is way less expensive than Vocaloid 5. SynthV is kind of going through its own period of growth right now with SynthV AI voicebanks on the horizon, while the future of Yamaha's Vocaloid is looking very very uncertain. SynthV has just started out though, and it needs all of the support it can get.

Vocaloid requires more skill, effort, and patience to properly tune a voicebank, as most Vocaloids sound pretty bad without a lot of editing first, especially with the new Vocaloid 5 voicebanks Chris and Amy that come with the program, they can easily sound pretty drunk and terrible if you don't know what you're doing. The only thing Vocaloid has over SynthV as of now imo, is a much wider library of vocals to choose from, including iconic voices like Hatsune Miku and GUMI, but honestly when it comes to usability, UI, live replay rendering, work flow, pitch editing, price, stability, and nearly everything else, SynthV is so much more streamlined.

The only big strike I can think of against SynthV, is that so far, we only have one english vocal in Eleanor Forte, and her current released voicebank is a free "lite" demo voicebank, her full voicebank with AI capabilities is expected to come out for sale within the next few months though, which will add more levels of expression to her default voice, and an alternate AI voice that will most certainly sound nearly human. Overall. I find her to be the easiest most versatile english voice synth of all the english voice synths I've ever used.

I started my voice synth obsession like most here with UTAU and Vocaloid, (I really don't recommend UTAU for music producers btw, very clunky and unintuitive, and is mostly just good for the hardcore voice synth hobbyists) so I'd like to think I'm not biased when I say it; I can not stress enough how great SynthV is.

Here are some fantastic examples of the three languages SynthV currently supports; Japanese, English, and Chinese, the first link is the first demo we have seen of the new AI voicebanks coming soon;

 

[peaches2217]

As has been said already, it depends on a HUGE variety of factors. Ultimately they’re both excellent programs. SynthV is a great place to start, as a stripped-down version with simple vocals is available for free, and you can get excellent results from them! However, as there’s such a small number of voicebanks, you don’t have much variety. V5 is very heavy-duty and needs a stronger computer to run, but it opens you up to use every Vocaloid from V3-V5 (that’s like... forty-ish Vocaloids, not even counting the Vocaloids with multiple voicebanks). It’s an investment, but one that grants you loads of options.

I might also suggest running a trial of Piapro Studio, which comes with Crypton’s V3/V4 Vocaloids. It’s a plugin, rather than a standalone editor, but it functions similarly to Vocaloid (and you can use other Vocaloids in it), and it comes with all of Crypton’s trials. I’ll link it when I can!

EDIT: Here we are! You can also run trials of other V3/4 Vocaloids in it; here’s a list of available trials!

 

[Prism]

Oh I'm going to put in my 2 cents.

Since you work in cubebase you can use version 4.5 which is the perfect middle ground between v4 and v5.

I would suggest testing out synth v lite version to see if you actually like working with them before you buy them. Eleanor is great but only one voice.

If you have the money splurge for the pro version of vocaloid that comes with cyber diva and songman they are really great voice banks and a shame they are locked behind pro. I also recommend picking up avanna on sale she's usually goes for 50 and is one of the best.

It's up to you which one you like. But I would say synth v is the future vocaloid seems dead in the water.

 

[___]

cyber diva and songman they are really great voice banks and a shame they are locked behind pro

They are not, you can buy their V5 banks standalone.

 

[peaches2217]

f you have the money splurge for the pro version of vocaloid that comes with cyber diva and songman they are really great voice banks and a shame they are locked behind pro.

Ah, they’re not locked behind Pro at all! You can purchase them individually from the Vocaloid website.


Edit: Ah, Patuk beat me to it... well, anyway, yeah. All the additional VBs in the Pro bundle CAN be bought separately!

 

[Stigbn]

Just an additional comment on 'tuning': It has been used in the Vocaloid community for any kind of editing of the voice, like editing phonemes and dynamics, not just pitch. It also confused me a lot when I started out! So - don't worry, most Vocaloids don't need pitch-tuning to sing in tune. Pitch editing can make them more expressive, but that's another thing.

 

[Nin10doLink2depic]

Thank you for all the comments and information I really appreciate it.

I downloaded the basic version of Synthesizer V studio with Eleanor forte. Eleanor is the tone of vocals I want for the current project I am on. The problem I have is I can’t run it as an instrument in cubase because the Synthesizer basic version does not seem to come with any VSTi plugin data. I use Mac OSX 10.14

Even though in one of their tutorials it does say it supports VSTi and cubase and even in the manual it shows the VSTi plugin but when I installed it that VSTi plugin was not there.

So to get the VSTi plugin for Synthesizer V do I need to purchase the full version for the VSTi?

VocaloSyntheis, thanks for the comment it did help.

Staff member The Lightning strike- thanks for the greetings I appreciate it and the information, I checked the Vocaloid 4 and 5 wiki and listened to the voice banks like you suggested. I listened to the 4 voice banks that come with Vocaloid 5 Amy, Chris, Kaori and ken. I did kind of like Amy and Kaori but I like Eleanor Forte more from Syntheizer V for some reason.

KingPapillon- thanks I am trying Synth V lite now and she (Eleanor) sounds great out the box to me the only thing I need is that VSTi plugin for cubase. That way I can insert her as an instrument and add Fx to her. I wonder if I can add her to VE PRO as a VSTi.

Yeah from what I heard, when listening to demos and what not on Vocaloid/Yamaha’s site many of the Vocaloid’s voices on initial start up don’t sound too clean when they sing from pitch to pitch. I guess that is ones knowledge of tuning knowing how to control the parameters would be useful in that case. Though really that is kind of crazy because the lite version of Synth V that is free on initial start up and loading Eleanor she just sounds good out the box to me when she sings from pitch to pitch I could not really hear any discernible artefacts in the voice with no edits or messing with pitch changes. Granted I have not messed with the tempo yet. And my current project is around 110bpm to 115bpm so that should be okay with her I think.

Regarding the voice banks for Synth V, I would purchase the Eleanor Forte voice if she was on sale but like you say and others have said it seems like Dreamtonics only has one female singing English voice, compared to Vocaloid/Yamaha which seems to have many voice banks.

It’s cool I understand thanks for your view KingPapillon on Vocaloid and Synth V it has helped me and thanks for the examples, I have said it a few time but I do like the tone Eleanor Forte those are great examples of her tone. The Cangqiong sounds real to me. Is that Chinese singing? I honestly could not tell you if it was a vocaloid voice bank or a real singer dang it.

What are the two CC parameters they use to tune her in the video? Pitch, loudness, tension etc….?

In Synth V in the top right corner in the piano roll editor there are 3 lines that allow you to add more parameters that is cool need to remember that.

Can synthesizer V studio do Melismas? Like being able to sing a broken word over multiple notes?

With Eleanor Forte in the first example you gave I could kind of tell in some parts that it was a Vocaloid but it still sounded good to me, good composition as well.

From looking at that video of Cangqiong is it common to import a finished audio file into Synth V and work the voice from there?
That is different than how I do my music composing. Also if my project has multiple time signatures do I need to manually input them in to Synth V? is there no way to sync my time signatures from cubase with Synth V?

Also what about if the tempo slows down in cubase how does that reflect in Synth V?

What vocaloid 5 equivalent voice bank is close to Eleanor? Megpoid?

Peaches2217- Yeah thanks I think to start with Synth V and Eleanor Forte, Vocaloid seems like I need to put more work/effort in to get better results. Yes Piapro studio I think was one of the other vocal synthesiser programs I ran across but I did not venture further down that road.

Prism- Thanks yeah being able to use a vocal synthesiser like Vocaloid 5 in Cubase to me is a major feature and probably will determine if I will use that program or not. fortunately for me Synthesizer V does have a VSTi plugin so I probably will go with that, if I can find out where the VSTi plugin is located.

Avanna, she was believe it or not the voice that led me down this whole vocaloid rabbit whole but turns out I can’t even use her as she is only available for windows and I use OSX and apparently, I was told, that even if you use vocaloid 5 in OSX you still can’t use Avanna.

patuk- thanks for the clarification on the vocaloid voice banks, Vocaloid 5 does seem to have many vocal libraries/banks to choose from. Where as Synthesizer V only has a few.

Stigbn- Cheers on the clarification on the word “tuning” yeah tuning in music to me means just that. To tune something like a guitar or piano, so when I started hearing the sentence or phrase “you tuned Amy or Miku really good”. I got confused, were they trying to say Amy or Miku are out of tune and they tuned them in tune so now they are good. I really didn’t get it, but I think you kind of explained it, what they mean when they say “tune” it means dynamics, expression, breathiness things of that nature. Basically how well some edits the CC.

Wow this was a long reply, didn't mean it to be that long of a reply and my post seems all over the place.

Thanks everybody, everyone for all the help and comments I think I am going to go with Synthesizer V and with Eleanor Forte she seems cool and her voice should fit my track. Just need to know about the VSTi plugin

 

[sarielv]

So to get the VSTi plugin for Synthesizer V do I need to purchase the full version for the VSTi?

I'm looking through the official forums but I'm not seeing anything to help.
Maybe this? VST won't open in Cubase

The Cangqiong sounds real to me. Is that Chinese singing? I honestly could not tell you if it was a vocaloid voice bank or a real singer dang it.

The Quadimension voices (all the Chinese ones except Aiko) and their albums are phenomenal, and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Songs with Chiyu are easier to tell because she wasn't updated like the rest until late this summer, so there is a gap in quality. This is HIGHLY evident in the two versions of her demo song

Can synthesizer V studio do Melismas? Like being able to sing a broken word over multiple notes?

Use + in the lyrics to break a word across multiple notes. Use - to stretch a syllable across multiple notes.

From looking at that video of Cangqiong is it common to import a finished audio file into Synth V and work the voice from there?

That's assuming you have no DAW, but you're having issues with the VSTI

Also if my project has multiple time signatures do I need to manually input them in to Synth V? is there no way to sync my time signatures from cubase with Synth V?

I need this answer myself, being a prog rocker ;D

The only thing I can think to add is that if you decide you want to invest money into Synth V, then hold off until next year when the AI voices are released so you'll have a better idea of which to get, assuming they aren't packaged together with the originals.

 

[sarielv]

There is another free option called n3utrino. It has a lot of drawbacks, being Japanese-only, having three voices, and no way to affect the dynamics (you use Musescore as an interface). That said, if you need to cover the opening tune to some anime, it's difficult to tell n3utrino from a real person.

 

[SeleDreams]

I'd suggest to be careful on the topic of Eleanor Forte by the way if you use her, one drawback is that she doesn't have a paid version yet for Synthesizer V Studio which means she is under the terms of her Lite licence, therefore no commercial use of her is allowed, you wouldn't be able to make any money out of music using her you make (ad revenue counts as well)

one advantage of vocaloid is that aside from exceptions such as Fukase you aren't likely to have issues monetizing music you make with it (the character names and designs are separate however you'd basically be ok as long as you don't cite their names and use their designs)

 

[SeleDreams]

Also, don't base your choices only on the native languages of voicebanks as we can make voicebanks of any language sing in any language by playing with their phonemes, it is sure more tricky, but it is however doable, I did make Hatsune Miku English and Japanese sing french and Mayu Japanese sing french as an example
Miku French here
Mayu French here

for miku french vocaloid 4 was used for mayu french vocaloid 5

it is also possible to do the same in synthesizer v by the way, for instance I made the japanese Synthesizer V voicebank Kotonoha AOI and Akane sing in english
Kotonoha AOI and Akane in English
this isn't the best result because it was done in one day for a friend's birthday for fun so take it with a grain of salt but it is more of a proof of concept


About the Synthesizer V VST, it is only present on the pro v due to the free version being late in updates versus the pro v, it, I think, will come to the free v once the pro v will have obtained more updates or will stay locked as a pro only feature if dreamtonics want it to be

 

[___]

Also, don't base your choices only on the native languages of voicebanks as we can make voicebanks of any language sing in any language by playing with their phonemes, it is sure more tricky, but it is however doable, I did make Hatsune Miku English and Japanese sing french and Mayu Japanese sing french as an example
Miku French here
Mayu French here

for miku french vocaloid 4 was used for mayu french vocaloid 5

it is also possible to do the same in synthesizer v by the way, for instance I made the japanese Synthesizer V voicebank Kotonoha AOI and Akane sing in english
Kotonoha AOI and Akane in English
this isn't the best result because it was done in one day for a friend's birthday for fun so take it with a grain of salt but it is more of a proof of concept


About the Synthesizer V VST, it is only present on the pro v due to the free version being late in updates versus the pro v, it, I think, will come to the free v once the pro v will have obtained more updates or will stay locked as a pro only feature if dreamtonics want it to be

I honestly wouldn't recommend doing that.

Forcing a VB to sing in a language it's not programmed for is for more experimented users, or people looking for hardcore experimentation. It's not very feasible as a long term thing and will almost always have inferior results than using voicebank itended for that language.

 

[peaches2217]

I honestly wouldn't recommend doing that.

Forcing a VB to sing in a language it's not programmed for is for more experimented users, or people looking for hardcore experimentation. It's not very feasible as a long term thing and will almost always have inferior results than using voicebank itended for that language.

To add in: it’s fun making synths sing in languages they aren’t programed for, but if you’re going for long-term use in a certain language, it’s best to use a synth programmed in said language. There’s only so many phonemes you can work with, and while it’s a fun challenge, trying to do that long-term (especially with Japanese synths, who have so few phonemes comparatively), it’s less fun and more infuriating.

 

[SeleDreams]

I would say it's honestly not as complex as you make it seem like, it's less complex than native vbs because we can't rely on the built-in lyrics converter, but in my opinion once we know most phonemes it becomes the same as working on let's say, UTAU

even more since once we get used to it we learn which phonemes correspond to the best equivalent of what we're looking for for a language

 

[___]

I would say it's honestly not as complex as you make it seem like, it's less complex than native vbs because we can't rely on the built-in lyrics converter, but in my opinion once we know most phonemes it becomes the same as working on let's say, UTAU

even more since once we get used to it we learn which phonemes correspond to the best equivalent of what we're looking for for a language

It's another learning curve, learning of phonetics of langauge one may not have otherwise any use for and for very specific process that more often than not produces inferior results, it's better suited for hobbyists looking for experimentation.

 

[SeleDreams]

It's another learning curve, learning of phonetics of langauge one may not have otherwise any use for and for very specific process that more often than not produces inferior results, it's better suited for hobbyists looking for experimentation.

I personally use it seriously for french and it's working pretty well, not like there's any alternative anyway (except maybe some low quality utaus)