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Other New VoiSona "Ui" (CV: Shigure Ui) Releasing in 2025

morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
851
25
Socal
morrysillusion.net
aw man. i dont feel surprised by hearing of the content itself... which sucks to say. i feel like every few voicebank announcements one of them has got to have that problem

EDIT: not sure if anyone will throw the explanations in here and i didnt know her so of course i did my quick research to get an idea.

theres talk of her being openly pedophilic from over a year ago tumblr and i saw it had to do with a song she made called "Shukusei!! Loli Kami Requiem" which i think also took off on tiktok. Shigure Ui is a child/minor of 16 years old. to be clear on the meaning of her song, people stated numerous times it is not anti-loli. many of her fans enjoy loli content and she has shown in response alongside this song that it is supportive of loli/made for her fans that like her as loli content. there are clips of her receiving messages from viewers she reads on stream that are innapropriate and some times laughs and just closes them but it is her thing to continue taking these messages and very obviously support being a "loli". the vtuber wiki also summarizes who she is as a character and vtuber, noting her interest/interactions with ecchi artists or generally vulgar/innapropriate humor compared to her character of being a minor. i think her character is the type of being a 16 year old who like to tease at adults this way. correct me if i am wrong as this is what i was able to quickly gather. but the song she made seems to be the biggest controversy
 
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lIlI

Staff member
Moderator
Apr 6, 2018
932
The Lightning Strike
It's been pretty interesting watching the community grapple with an engine they enjoy choosing to work with a pedophile. For years we've come down hard on any company that chose to work with ACE, and discouraged major producers from using their software. The difference: ACE was unpopular, so boycotting them presented no psychological challenge. Now an even more damning example* is occurring with Voisona, and the moral stance of fans has seen a predictable shift. I wonder if using ACE will remain taboo, and if we aren't critical of future companies who collaborate with Voisona, will the fandom redact their scrutiny of VOICEMITH? Either way, it's sad this remains such a widespread problem in vocal synths.

*Employing a programmer who engaged with CSM on his personal account vs giving them a voicebank, promoting them, endorsing and platforming them publicly.**

**Synthesizer V and Vocaloid have also engaged with this aspect of otaku culture; but most examples came from third parties, so the engine itself avoided scrutiny.
 
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Sep 24, 2024
9
Wow, her announcement crossed 100k likes in under 24 hours, and her Twitter has well over 30k followers. I'm not sure if I've seen such a successful voicebank announcement... ever? Even the most significant voicebanks in recent years (Teto, Kafu) topped out at a fraction of that. A lot of recent voicebanks have tried to court the massive VTuber fandom, and it seems like this could be the first project to really live up to that potential.

It remains to be seen how much of that prerelease hype will convert to fans and producers, since we're still talking about two different fandoms, but she likely has the connections to pull some impressive names from the Vocaloid sphere. Shigure Ui (the person) got her start in the Vocaloid fandom illustrating for major producers (Rerulili, otetsu, Asa), and currently still works with some for her Vtuber music (Junky, Nanahoshi Orchestra, Iyowa).

That is setting aside the elephant in the room, of course. Hiring lolicons and shotacons is frankly not a taboo for otaku-related businesses in Japan, but even so, hiring the singer of the lolicon song of the 2020s is a loaded decision. A lot of the growth in the Vocaloid music scene in recent years has concentrated on works with mainstream youth culture appeal, and that definitely doesn't include "jokes" (air quotes) about sexy nine-year-olds. No idea how this culture clash is going to play out.
 

morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
851
25
Socal
morrysillusion.net
i think there was some recent stuff that has given her loads of hype from fans, i think there was aa live show yesterday or the day before? (i dont think they announced it during the actual show but on the same day, thats a lot of excitement). she has 1.2 million followers (on twitter). i think fact is, a huge majority of people outside of her fans are unlikely to hear anything ever about this whole situation of controversy (and this applies to every similar instance). often times a lack of "action" just comes from... finding out how not popular this kind of thing is when you go to the users of the program who dont know her. which isnt to say its pointless to consider and talk about, and view the companies in a certain way for partnering with them. but in the end this kinda issue loses traction so quickly in the overall fandom. i'll make my individual choice to just not engage with the product but its really as far as its worth going for me, despite knowing i have more extensive feelings on the scenario.
 
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Chuchu

Luka enthusiast
Jul 18, 2018
102
Wow, her announcement crossed 100k likes in under 24 hours, and her Twitter has well over 30k followers. I'm not sure if I've seen such a successful voicebank announcement... ever? Even the most significant voicebanks in recent years (Teto, Kafu) topped out at a fraction of that. A lot of recent voicebanks have tried to court the massive VTuber fandom, and it seems like this could be the first project to really live up to that potential.

It remains to be seen how much of that prerelease hype will convert to fans and producers, since we're still talking about two different fandoms, but she likely has the connections to pull some impressive names from the Vocaloid sphere. Shigure Ui (the person) got her start in the Vocaloid fandom illustrating for major producers (Rerulili, otetsu, Asa), and currently still works with some for her Vtuber music (Junky, Nanahoshi Orchestra, Iyowa).

That is setting aside the elephant in the room, of course. Hiring lolicons and shotacons is frankly not a taboo for otaku-related businesses in Japan, but even so, hiring the singer of the lolicon song of the 2020s is a loaded decision. A lot of the growth in the Vocaloid music scene in recent years has concentrated on works with mainstream youth culture appeal, and that definitely doesn't include "jokes" (air quotes) about sexy nine-year-olds. No idea how this culture clash is going to play out.
Honeyworks campfire announcement for their cevio/voisona voicebanks was also crazy and the campaign reached 90% of its stretch goal in the first day alone. I think they concluded with 270% more than what they asked.

I doubt it'll be a problem in Japan given what producers and cover artists had Kaai Yuki sang, tbh. It's more a if they don't like it, they'll ignore it but won't make much a fuss. It's the English speaking side that will express their distaste more openly but if they can still asked for a whitecul SynthV port from the same company that choose to work with Rosa's VP who also turned out to be a shotacon, and many had issues with that and were ready to cancel them, then their call to boycott voisona/cevio will just ring hollow, imo.

And I doubt Yamaha/Dreamtonics/Techno-speech do much background check or even care to as long as they don't have a bad reputation or committed a crime and can pay for the licence fee and dev time.
 
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morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
851
25
Socal
morrysillusion.net
I'm going to say this: Shigure UI is a lolicon, not a pedophile. Both lolicon and pedophile are not the same thing.
we can get caught up in semantics here but what i think is to be said: the character is a "lolicon", the fans that support her enjoy lolicon. the way they engage with her (a character who is a minor) is what many would consider pedophilic behavior. as she has responded to/engaged with messages from said audience, many being adults, that show attraction to her, often romantic or sexual. the wording of 'shigure ui being a pedophile' is more to say that she supports this behavior and engages with it (whether its stream interaction or the content/media/music etc she releases), like making a song that again supports these concepts. lolicon is more often than not put alongside pedophilia due to the content including minors generally viewed in a sexual nature. the character might be referred to as "lolicon" in subject. the creator and audience engage in behavior that falls in line with what many will see as pedophilic/supporttive of it.

im not gonna argue more on lolicon=pedophilia, cuz its always an topic people argue about and there can be a level of nuance. and the specifics of pedophilia and sigure ui's creator can get way more specific and detailed too. but it is fact that we have adults interacting with a character who is a minor in an inappropriate nature and the creator also supports this very clearly which is why many word it the way they do. (...also. imo i think this topic of the kinds of interactions also gets more weird with this being a fully acted vtuber that is in some form 'alive' more than other forms of fictional media)
 

Chuchu

Luka enthusiast
Jul 18, 2018
102
I'm going to say this: Shigure UI is a lolicon, not a pedophile. Both lolicon and pedophile are not the same thing.
They aren't, but my two cents is that most people simply don't have much love for loli-/shotacons because their liking is so heavily linked with the sexual depictions of characters that clearly look like toddlers or elementary school children if we're honest, and this is what they're mostly associated with. Saying someone is just a loli-/shotacon makes me think that they're fucking weird for liking that stuff and nobody would be surprised IF they turn out to be an actual pedo. No one here really accused her of being a pedophile but pointed out the content she produced that has pedophilic connotations.
 

Alphonse

Aspiring Fan
Mar 13, 2021
33
No one here really accused her of being a pedophile but pointed out the content she produced that has pedophilic connotations.
Someone literally said "It's been pretty interesting watching the community grapple with an engine they enjoy choosing to work with a pedophile" a few posts ago. They also said her work is "openly pedophilic", not just that it has "connotations".
 

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Apr 8, 2018
350
???
I think it’s interesting to see Shigure Ui make a VoiSona bank, it really says something about her popularity in Japan right now. I feel that if you don’t want to support Ui just don’t buy the vb. There’s nothing out there that says that the software devs are pro anything malicious unlike ACE and I would think that they probably see making an Ui vb as a good business venture seeing how popular she is. (I hope this makes sense, it’s 3 am and I’m half asleep)
 

Chuchu

Luka enthusiast
Jul 18, 2018
102
Someone literally said "It's been pretty interesting watching the community grapple with an engine they enjoy choosing to work with a pedophile" a few posts ago. They also said her work is "openly pedophilic", not just that it has "connotations".
I scrolled back and read them and yeah without tangible proof it's a little bit yikes but I only remembered the last two comments before my first reply, so yeah my bad but I still stand by the loli/shotacon part.
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
328
It's been pretty interesting watching the community grapple with an engine they enjoy choosing to work with a pedophile. For years we've come down hard on any company that chose to work with ACE, and discouraged major producers from using their software. The difference: ACE was unpopular, so boycotting them presented no psychological challenge. Now an even more damning example* is occurring with Voisona, and the moral stance of fans has seen a predictable shift. I wonder if using ACE will remain taboo, and if we aren't critical of future companies who collaborate with Voisona, will the fandom redact their scrutiny of VOICEMITH? Either way, it's sad this remains such a widespread problem in vocal synths.

*Employing a programmer who engaged with CSM on his personal account vs giving them a voicebank, promoting them, endorsing and platforming them publicly.**

**Synthesizer V and Vocaloid have also engaged with this aspect of otaku culture; but most examples came from third parties, so the engine itself avoided scrutiny.
I wasn't planning on commenting, but this is most certainly a false equivalency - yes, the voicebank's creators are incredibly problematic, and I will not buy purchasing or supporting this product myself for the record. However, this is not Techno-Speech "giving" Ui a voicebank, she is not 1st party - she is a third party who paid the dev fee just like Zan-shin with Rosa, Quadimension with Shian (and their other characters). Internet Co, AHS, Dreamtonics, Yamaha, etc. all promoted the problematic third party voicebanks as well, and this is no different. ACE actively employes, to this day, that developer and related parties within his circle have defended him. ACE was not unpopular (initially), but their poor business practices and unethical decisions (the employee, as well as their promotion of unethical AI usage) is why they are harshly condemed now. By purchasing ANY ACE voicebank or subscription, you are funding that specific employee - but the problematic voicebanks on SynthV, VoiSona, and Vocaloid only make money if you buy them specifically. Voicemith's condemnation is due to their working with ACE, poor business practices (see the crowdfund for Oscar), their promotion of AI generated artwork, music, and attending conventions for crypto-bros.

We should be condeming Ui, but this should not reflect on VoiSona as a whole just like Rosa, Shian, Haiyi, Rowen, etc. don't reflect their respective engines. It is unfortunate this continues to be an issue, but unfortunately the Otaku culture and vsynth culture are permanently linked. As repeated in this thread, that market and overseas consumers are the main demographic and we can't change that - but we can voice our concerns, not purchase, and hold our community's projects and vocals to the moral and ethical standards that represent us fully.
 
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lIlI

Staff member
Moderator
Apr 6, 2018
932
The Lightning Strike
I'm going to say this: Shigure UI is a lolicon, not a pedophile. Both lolicon and pedophile are not the same thing.
Yes they are; this is a common misconception. 'Pedophile' means "person sexually attracted to children", the artistic medium the child is portrayed in is irrelevant.

This is especially true in Japan, where the word 'loli' and 'lolicon' are often applied to real children and people attracted to real children. It derives from 'lolita complex', which references a novel about a man attracted to a child he knows. In Japanese contexts, you can assume no distinction between fictional and real children is being applied. The framing device of UI's viral song is that you've been convicted for touching a child.

The word 'lolicon' is online slang. Before lolicon, lolicons were called pedophiles. The word 'lolicon' doesn't exist in medical or legal contexts. If you tell your therapist you consume hentai featuring children, you are medically classified as a pedophile. We also don't distinguish between people attracted to drawn men from people attracted to men in real life. Artistic representations of humans activate the same parts of the brain as real humans, so these are psychologically assumed to be the same in discussions of sexuality. If you like women, you like art of women, and vice versa. If you aren't attracted to children, it is biologically impossible for you to be attracted to a drawing of a child. Art and photos produce arousal consistent with a person's sexuality, so having a separate word between them would be redundant.

In most countries, pornographic art featuring children is illegal. In court cases of people convicted, they are not convicted as 'lolicons'. They are convicted as pedophiles. No dictionary definition of 'pedophile' specifies 'real children only'.

Tl;Dr: 'Lolicon', 'shotacon' and 'pedophile' are all synonyms. Pedophiles in Japan attracted to young girls invented the word 'lolicon' as a name for themselves. The idea that lolicons are only attracted to children in fiction was adopted by English speakers much later in certain online communities, and even then, still falls under the dictionary definition of pedophile.
 
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junky

Aspiring Fan
Apr 30, 2022
47
I wasn't planning on commenting, but this is most certainly a false equivalency - yes, the voicebank's creators are incredibly problematic, and I will not buy purchasing or supporting this product myself for the record. However, this is not Techno-Speech "giving" Ui a voicebank, she is not 1st party - she is a third party who paid the dev fee just like Zan-shin with Rosa, Quadimension with Shian (and their other characters). Internet Co, AHS, Dreamtonics, Yamaha, etc. all promoted the problematic third party voicebanks as well, and this is no different. ACE actively employes, to this day, that developer and related parties within his circle have defended him. ACE was not unpopular (initially), but their poor business practices and unethical decisions (the employee, as well as their promotion of unethical AI usage) is why they are harshly condemed now. By purchasing ANY ACE voicebank or subscription, you are funding that specific employee - but the problematic voicebanks on SynthV, VoiSona, and Vocaloid only make money if you buy them specifically. Voicemith's condemnation is due to their working with ACE, poor business practices (see the crowdfund for Oscar), their promotion of AI generated artwork, music, and attending conventions for crypto-bros.

We should be condeming Ui, but this should not reflect on VoiSona as a whole just like Rosa, Shian, Haiyi, Rowen, etc. don't reflect their respective engines. It is unfortunate this continues to be an issue, but unfortunately the Otaku culture and vsynth culture are permanently linked. As repeated in this thread, that market and overseas consumers are the main demographic and we can't change that - but we can voice our concerns, not purchase, and hold our community's projects and vocals to the moral and ethical standards that represent us fully.
How is this any different from Ameya, the developer of UTAU calling beta UTAU "loliedit" and making the first UTAU "Loline Com"? Or Crypton hiring the creator of one of multiple incest anime to create a Racing Miku design for them? Do we have to boycott UTAU and CFM too?
I understand your discomfort but this just feels really hypocritical to me..there are WAY more companies you all should be boycotting, can't use the "third parties/whoever paid the dev fee" excuse for Ameya and Crypton (in the case of Piapro NT) since they aren't third parties in this case..
 
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