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CeVIO IA English Thoughts/Opinions?

sleepysheep7

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS!!!
Apr 8, 2018
126
CeVIO is definitely superior to UTAU from an interface standpoint, and since it's being updated, it might get better, but UTAU is a better engine, hands down. CeVIO does have talk functionality going for it, but Vocaloid/UTAU sing better and Voiceroid talks better. CeVIO is kind of the Jack of all trades, master of none of vocal synths.
If my memory serves me right, the reason that CeVIO seems to be less powerful than UTAU is because the engine is based off HMM format like Sinsy which was for a talk engine originally. I know you can download the source engine for Sinsy and make your own voice synthesizer and voice bank if you are willing to put in the time which I am wondering if that is what CeVIO did to a point.
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
253
If my memory serves me right, the reason that CeVIO seems to be less powerful than UTAU is because the engine is based off HMM format like Sinsy which was for a talk engine originally. I know you can download the source engine for Sinsy and make your own voice synthesizer and voice bank if you are willing to put in the time which I am wondering if that is what CeVIO did to a point.
Mostly all forms of synthesis were originally for speech, but the real issue with HMM overall is that it's not based off of samples, it's based off of entire songs. It doesn't take samples and pitches them, it makes its own working voice from an example voice (the voice donor)
 
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sleepysheep7

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS!!!
Apr 8, 2018
126
Mostly all forms of synthesis were originally for speech, but the real issue with HMM overall is that it's not based off of samples, it's based off of entire songs. It doesn't take samples and pitches them, it makes its own working voice from an example voice (the voice donor)
That sounds really complicated to be honest. I mean I can kind of understand how Vocaloid and UTAU work but CeVIO I just can't seem to wrap my head on how that would work. I would of thought at some point you would need to have some samples used or something.
 
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Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
253
That sounds really complicated to be honest. I mean I can kind of understand how Vocaloid and UTAU work but CeVIO I just can't seem to wrap my head on how that would work. I would of thought at some point you would need to have some samples used or something.
Basically this is how it works.

You create a blank voice and you "feed" it songs from the voice provider. The blank voice know learns, or is "trained", to emulate the voice provider. What this means is that it's not actually and sound samples at all, but just an artificial intelligence of sorts trying to reproduce what it was taught.
 

sleepysheep7

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS!!!
Apr 8, 2018
126
Basically this is how it works.

You create a blank voice and you "feed" it songs from the voice provider. The blank voice know learns, or is "trained", to emulate the voice provider. What this means is that it's not actually and sound samples at all, but just an artificial intelligence of sorts trying to reproduce what it was taught.
Sooooo if I am understanding right, the engine will hear a sound from a voice provider and then try its best to mimic it back? Kinda like what a bird does when you talk to it?
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
253
Sooooo if I am understanding right, the engine will hear a sound from a voice provider and then try its best to mimic it back? Kinda like what a bird does when you talk to it?
Yeah pretty much. This is one of the advantages of HMM, it learns and can think when it doesn't know something then try to do it without instruction, kinda like a living thing.
 
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sleepysheep7

GET OFF MY LAWN YOU WHIPPERSNAPPERS!!!
Apr 8, 2018
126
Yeah pretty much. This is one of the advantages of HMM, it learns and can think when it doesn't know something then try to do it without instruction, kinda like a living thing.
Well it certainly sounds interesting. I wonder if they 1st place choice this format for english because it would mean less recordings (At least I think there would be less) then doing sample base like with Vocaloid.
 
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Exemplar

Veteran
May 17, 2018
1,028
It hasn't been posted about here yet but, that IA/04 album that has the four IA English songs (Stay Gold, Conqueror, Life Love Peace & Zettairyouiki which happen to be the first 4 songs on it) are now up on Spotify if anyone wants to take a listen to them.



Conqueror and Life Love Peace are the best sounding demos of the bunch to me, so you might want to listen to those two first.
 
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ohpeach

Digital artist
Apr 8, 2018
121
earth
deviantart.com
Well it certainly sounds interesting. I wonder if they 1st place choice this format for english because it would mean less recordings (At least I think there would be less) then doing sample base like with Vocaloid.
What I don't understand is why they would do CeVIO if it costs more than making a Vocaloid. It's been touched on here and on the Wikia, but I still just don't get it. All Ia's other voicebanks have been for Vocaloid, so it's a real bummer that it's now on CeVIO. I'd love to have bought her Vocaloid bank, because I just feel like that would've been better.
Esp. considering CeVIO is the whole "jack of all trades, master of none" in that it can do more, but it's a lower quality result.
 

Ulysses

from VOICeVIO
May 4, 2018
40
What I don't understand is why they would do CeVIO if it costs more than making a Vocaloid. It's been touched on here and on the Wikia, but I still just don't get it. All Ia's other voicebanks have been for Vocaloid, so it's a real bummer that it's now on CeVIO. I'd love to have bought her Vocaloid bank, because I just feel like that would've been better.
Esp. considering CeVIO is the whole "jack of all trades, master of none" in that it can do more, but it's a lower quality result.
Even if a C voice is harder to make than a V one, it doesn't matter for 1stPlace, since the CeVIO company (techno-sp.) would handle that. The whole voice (ONE / IA) is made by CeVIO company, they just "sell" them to 1stPlace, who just need to do some tweaks. The VoxWave is a sad story because they have to adapt the engine for French but they don't have the knowledge (about HMM etc.) to do that at all.
I don't really agree with that "jack of all trades, master of none" words. Statistics & ML based voice synthesis is the future. Sampling and pitch shifting voice is more like an instrument - I don't mean V is useless, people like instrument-like voices as well. The only critical weakness of HMM based engines (CeVIO/Voiceroid) is the noise. Just look at the TMG parameter in C, V can't do that despite of the tricks. You might say some V songs sound more realistic than C, but that’s just because of the hard work of producers. They can do the same thing on C, too (such as 神無月P).

I agree with "Voiceroid2 talks better than C". If the voices are made in the same quality (Voiceroid voices are also very hard to make), Voiceroid2 (not V1 or V1EX+) does sound better. But the fact is that both Voiceroid and C are based on HTS, they are actually brothers - which is not true for Voiceroid and Vocaloid. The Voiceroid2 (actually it's AITalk) just made some modifications on the open source version of HTS (look at the huge difference on voicebank sizes), and C is developed with the lab which created HTS.
 
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uncreepy

👵Escaped from the retirement home
Apr 9, 2018
1,618
Holy cow, I dunno what to say about the 2 English clips at the end. (I've never heard IA sing in English, even though I knew the CD was out. I'm not sure how to hear the songs other than buying the CD.) The songs seem kind of like... sassy and make me think of BoA or Jolin Tsai for some reason. I can't describe what I'm thinking. IA and Lia make me think of "soft"/hopeful songs that are drawn out, but the English seems kind of aggressive.
 

Pomelo

In 2D hell
Apr 8, 2018
190
I'm really liking what I'm hearing so far. Definitely different than her standard JP voice, but I actually think I prefer this tbh.

(Also neutral on the whole engine shift because I don't use either and do like a lot of CeVIO vbs.)
 
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lIlI

Staff member
Moderator
Apr 6, 2018
855
The Lightning Strike
They are definitely going in a different direction with her English, from her tone to the genre of demo songs. 1st Place has always been good at marketing, so I'm excited to see more of how they adapt for our audience. (Not just Western Vocaloid fans, but the broader scope of English musicians.)
 
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ohpeach

Digital artist
Apr 8, 2018
121
earth
deviantart.com
Her English is so much more mature sounding
I like it but I'm also concerned about it being a turn off for those who are looking for that sweeter, higher Ia vocal-- tho I'm sure it'll be easily remedied with some pitching up of her voice
I'm still bummed out and a wee bit ticked that she's not a vocaloid but hearing her sing in English more I'm still convinced it'll be better than Crypton (and honestly Gumi at this point..I mean it's so much more smooth and coherent)
 

Cluemily

cherish chika
Staff member
Administrator
Mar 25, 2018
221
www.youtube.com
CeVIO actually has a sort of Gender Factor-esque parameter in more recent versions, so people can easily turn that up for a cuter voice. So people wanting a cute voice shouldn't have any issues since the parameter really does its job well!

But yeah I'm so excited for IA English. She just keeps getting better and they weren't kidding when they reported they were taking their time to make sure she was good. She's amazing and she's not even ready for release yet.
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
705
Still bummed that it's going to be CeVIO and not Vocaloid, but those snippets of IA English are an absolute dream! I can live with it being on CeVIO if the raw voice sounds that good (plus, it might encourage Yamaha to improve Vocaloid's English capabilities more. There's finally some competition against English Vocaloids in terms of quality.)
 

BenHo

Aspiring Fan
Apr 8, 2018
83
While I agree that it's strange that her English voice is jumping to Cevio, and her English does seem to have a less soft tone than her Japanese, I'm still kind of excited because this means we're finally making real progress on Cevio for ENGLISH vocals. I'm in love with Cevio's interface and I've been waiting to see how the engine handles English so I'm glad to finally see results.
 

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