Unpopular Opinions

[Beananium]

Like, maybe we should be thinking about why so many vocal synth characters are portrayed so young by their creators?

OH MY GOD YEAH. its so wild to me that luka is considered one of the older vocal synths just because she isn't a highschooler. the more extreme and inexcusable examples come from feminine vocals (in every language, but english vocals seem to be better about this), but even the male engloids are ridiculously young (i am a strong middle aged sweet ann + big al believer, its ridiculous they were retrospectively made to be in their 20's)

also i agree that its extremely horrifying that a common consensus among straight men is that attractiveness is amplified when the girl is younger and women need to fit a very rigid box to be seen as attractive. its especially scary that women need to be seen as attractive in the first place to be seen as human. this applies to fictional characters, too; its so common to see conservative men throw a fit everytime a big video game series's protagonist is a woman that isn't an idealized version of their type (or even just any black or not very skinny woman).

The main thing i think of in terms of is early Meiko portrayals, where she's seen as an unsympathetic old hag despite often being under 30. You have to respect everyone and be nice to them even if you aren't attracted to them. I wish others can respect women no matter what.

 

[StrawbebbyPancakes]

Many people treat Its one thing if the voicebank was voiced by an ACTUAL CHILD (Kaai Yuki, Oliver).

My hot take off this topic is I genuinely believe it's entirely unethical for minors to provide voices for a vocal synth. A child simply can't consent to their voice being made into a product like that, and esp as young as Yuki and Oliver's VP's were they had no way of understanding the potential consequences.

Personally, I don't want there to be any unethical synths so everyone can freely create without issue (fictional character age discourse aside, y'all figure that out yourselves).

 

[kaede00582]

The main thing i think of in terms of is early Meiko portrayals, where she's seen as an unsympathetic old hag despite often being under 30. You have to respect everyone and be nice to them even if you aren't attracted to them.

This is really common in the VTuber space too. Any female VTuber who isn't a teen is referred to as a 'hag' and it's always rubbed me the wrong way. It implies adult women - even if they're only in their mid/late twenties - are ugly and undesirable, while underage teen girls are cute and attractive.

 

[KeyThruZ]

Mine:

I'm not a huge Ghost fan, but I think people are really blowing the whole situation out of proportion. It's like we're back in the 1500s and hunting for witches.

Also, the whole "mocking 14 year old fans" thing, as a 14 year old, is really very funny. I'm willing to admit that a lot of fans my age that I know are incredibly annoying, and really don't give any care whatsoever about the technological aspect of vocal synths.

On the topic of young fans, I really hate how popular Triple Baka is with the fandom. It really brings out the ignorance of a lot of people. These are the people who are so obsessed with cancel culture and modern puritanism, yet show no interest in the creator of the song at all, therefore directly supporting a producer with a popular lolicon song who most likely is a pedophile himself. (He still has the song up on his channel and shows no shame regarding it.) I find it all very ironic, and even a bit humorous.

"Cancelling Gakupo:" Yes, Gackt has made some... statements. I honestly don't take any of it to heart though, considering how he acted with male band members in his early career with Malice Mizer. Even if you personally don't support him, the Vocaloid still isn't the person himself.
I am very uncomfortable discussing any serious allegations about him, so please don't bring it up. Thank you

I like Yohio's Vocaloid. Even though the visual design is rather basic and doesn't take very much inspiration from his original V-Kei style, I do like it. I wouldn't say that the hate is undeserved though, this is just my personal opinion.

(Sorry for any grammatical mistakes)

 

[WyndReed]

On the topic of young fans, I really hate how popular Triple Baka is with the fandom. It really brings out the ignorance of a lot of people. These are the people who are so obsessed with cancel culture and modern puritanism, yet show no interest in the creator of the song at all, therefore directly supporting a producer with a popular lolicon song who most likely is a pedophile himself. (He still has the song up on his channel and shows no shame regarding it.) I find it all very ironic, and even a bit humorous.

Which song are you talking about? I've listened to a lot of LamazeP's stuff and none of it was like that.

 

[IO+]

On the topic of young fans, I really hate how popular Triple Baka is with the fandom. It really brings out the ignorance of a lot of people. These are the people who are so obsessed with cancel culture and modern puritanism, yet show no interest in the creator of the song at all, therefore directly supporting a producer with a popular lolicon song who most likely is a pedophile himself. (He still has the song up on his channel and shows no shame regarding it.) I find it all very ironic, and even a bit humorous.

Not necessary and i see so many flawed in the argument.

Someone enjoys Triple Baka > therefore they support the producer > therefore they are supporting a lolicon song > therefore they may be supporting a pedophile.
Those are several separate claims, and each step needs evidence. Simply enjoying a song doesn't establish that the listener knows the producer's entire catalog, agrees with every other work they've made, or endorses the creator's personal views. And the claim that the producer is “most likely a pedophile himself” is particularly problematic and unrelated.

listen to a song by this producer doesn't mean they are supporting their other controversial work and therefore indirectly supporting their alleged personal behavior. If you wanted to say i "dislike this producer's work and don't want to support them.” That's a legitimate personal choice. But turning that into a conclusion about the character of everyone who happens to enjoy one of their songs is a completely different claim. What you are talking about isn't so far off from "witch hunt" either.

If someone enjoyed slipknot song this would mean slipknot fans enjoyed extreme violence or fans become mentally unstable? Obviously not.
It's a unpopular opinion threads but i think this claim is gone too far.

 

[Bookworm2]

Also, the whole "mocking 14 year old fans" thing, as a 14 year old, is really very funny. I'm willing to admit that a lot of fans my age that I know are incredibly annoying, and really don't give any care whatsoever about the technological aspect of vocal synths.

Yep. 100% agree. I remember being a young and new fan, and good lord getting into the tech aspect was hard and confusing, so I have some empathy, but like the basics aren't that hard. They're like... three PowerPoint slides of info, max.

I like Yohio's Vocaloid. Even though the visual design is rather basic and doesn't take very much inspiration from his original V-Kei style, I do like it. I wouldn't say that the hate is undeserved though, this is just my personal opinion.

Honestly, same. It is a little generic, but it's not that bad. Some are definitely worse.

As for my own unpopular opinion, the letter voicebanks don't actually need a character to be a "good voicebank", and similarly a letter voicebank doesn't need to be restricted to one design. Take Mo Xu for example. Her voice is beautiful and actually pretty unique, but due to the fact that she's a letter voicebank and one of the free voicebanks she often gets overlooked. And regarding letter character designs, not all Yi Xi songs have to use the Vimalion Project design. I've seen hate on songs that use an alternative design, but why?

 

[KeyThruZ]

@WyndReed @IO+
Premature Love Romance - LamazeP ft. Kaai Yuki, Otomachi Una, Rana, & Touhoku Kiritan

I never said I disliked his music. From an objective standpoint, his music is very cute and catchy; one of my favorite songs of his is "I Say Love." I do not engage in witch-hunting cancel culture. I was saying that I found it contradictory that people who dislike a particular producer will dig through all their old songs and social media posts to find any incriminating evidence against them to "cancel" them, yet when they have a song they like, they don't even seem to care.

I'm sorry if I poorly worded my first post, and I understand that my opinion may be invalid due to my age and limited understanding of social psychology and how the world works. You're completely free to ignore what I said and move on with your life if it caused you any distress or trouble

 

[KeyThruZ]

listen to a song by this producer doesn't mean they are supporting their other controversial work and therefore indirectly supporting their alleged personal behavior. If you wanted to say i "dislike this producer's work and don't want to support them.” That's a legitimate personal choice. But turning that into a conclusion about the character of everyone who happens to enjoy one of their songs is a completely different claim. What you are talking about isn't so far off from "witch hunt" either.

I wasn't meaning to attack any fans who liked the song innocently; that is completely fine. My post was just my opinion on the puriteens of the fandom.

 

[IO+]

Ages are unrelated, unless Admins specifically limit it. So in this case everyone have free will to engaged in this forums or this specific "unpopular-opinions threads" but that doesn't mean you can make a provocative accusation and say. Oops...Anyway, you can move on with your life.

The fact that the thread is specifically called “unpopular opinions” doesn't mean “anything goes and nobody is allowed to question it.” Quite the opposite, really. The whole point of putting an opinion publicly into a discussion thread is that other people can say: “I disagree, and here's why your reasoning doesn't work.”
But if you post an opinion publicly on an unpopular-opinion thread, people are obviously going to criticize the reasoning behind it. “It's just my opinion” or "reframe it as merely an innocent opinion" doesn't shield the argument from examination.

Likewise

“my opinion may be invalid due to my age and limited understanding of social psychology and how the world works.”

That feels unnecessarily self-deprecating. There's no need to invoke age or “social psychology” at all. The relevant question is simply whether the argument is logically supported.

I'm not attacking you personally, I just think you made a serious accusation, and I think it went too far.
Like i said, age are irrelevant as long as it doesn't violate forums rule, and that's the beauty of this forums.

Also I don't owed any apology, please give it to LamazeP.

 

[Beananium]

Its important to mention that a lot of the people mentioned in KeyThruZ post have said and done some horrible things that go unmentioned.

A huge reason why a lot of Vocaloid fans hate GHOST is because they had a publicized meltdown and was actively hostile to anyone who told them off for a racist statement they made, even if they did it politely. GACKT had made statements of actively supporting MAGA / Donald Trump. Yohio tweeted out vile, racist shit too.

To clarify, I hate call-out culture too. Spreading public "[X] is a vile person! Here are some serious allegations that could ruin their career!" posts off of personal issues and digital stalking instead of blocking them and moving on or even working with them privately to get clarification or confirmation about any misbehavior is something that makes me sick to my stomach. This is why I stuck to examples of bad things the parties above themselves did instead of allegations, even if they had solid proof (most of which are much more severe).

However, acknowledging someone's shitty actions isn't the same as purposely ruining their lives. The people who already know have made their decision of if they want to support them + their work or not.

To expand on what IO+ had already said, liking the work of producers and voice providers who have done something bad isn't an inherent support of their actions outside of that. Every example of people going "I like Yohioloid" shouldn't need a "I DON'T SUPPORT HIS VOICE PROVIDER. I AM NOT RACIST" disclaimer under it. Most reasonable people of any age understand this well. The "puriteens" who would hypothetically get mad at a "I like Yohioloid" statment would be because it's supplemented with "what his voice provider did is irrelevant to me".

 

[Beananium]

As for my own unpopular opinion, the letter voicebanks don't actually need a character to be a "good voicebank", and similarly a letter voicebank doesn't need to be restricted to one design. Take Mo Xu for example. Her voice is beautiful and actually pretty unique, but due to the fact that she's a letter voicebank and one of the free voicebanks she often gets overlooked. And regarding letter character designs, not all Yi Xi songs have to use the Vimalion Project design. I've seen hate on songs that use an alternative design, but why?

YES! Since I'm more into character design + fan community aspect than the software specifically, I'll speak on that more.

The main non Yi-Xi example I think of in terms of fan designs eclipsing all others for a faceless Voicebank is Roro- hatahiro's VY2 design. It's a damn good design, but it being synonymous with VY2 is sort of frustrating to me, since I feel that having one defeates the purpose of VY2's core design. It just being a sword felt intentional, so the voice can be enjoyed on it's own merit rather than with a character + to imagine your own character instead.

I love it when faceless voicebank designs are unique across songs + fan art ^^

 

[KeyThruZ]

The fact that the thread is specifically called “unpopular opinions” doesn't mean “anything goes and nobody is allowed to question it.” Quite the opposite, really. The whole point of putting an opinion publicly into a discussion thread is that other people can say: “I disagree, and here's why your reasoning doesn't work.”
But if you post an opinion publicly on an unpopular-opinion thread, people are obviously going to criticize the reasoning behind it. “It's just my opinion” or "reframe it as merely an innocent opinion" doesn't shield the argument from examination.

I never said no one was allowed to question it. I never expected everyone to agree with me.

Also I don't owed any apology, please give it to LamazeP.

Why do I owe an apology to LamazeP? The content he made is disgusting and romanticized. He's a largely popular producer, and I'm not sending any hate directly towards him anyway. If someone makes non-satirical pedophilic content, it only makes sense to assume they are a pedophile. While I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, it's blatantly obvious that he is a sexual deviant. I understand this doesn't automatically give me a free "be a dick" pass, but I was groomed and assaulted between the ages of 12 and 13, so I do, in fact, have a particular resentment towards these types of people.

A huge reason why a lot of Vocaloid fans hate GHOST is because they had a publicized meltdown and was actively hostile to anyone who told them off for a racist statement they made, even if they did it politely. GACKT had made statements of actively supporting MAGA / Donald Trump. Yohio tweeted out vile, racist shit too.

I don't like Ghost for these reasons. I was referring to those who harass and send death threats; I don't believe someone deserves to die for something such as that. As for Gackt, I was referring to his "people who don't like cars are queer" statement. (I find this really funny in particular, because I am queer and love cars.) For his "MAGA" statement, it's important to acknowledge what was actually said (Not saying you didn't.) His original tweet said he admired Trump's decisiveness and leadership, and wished for something like that in Japan. Even as someone who is actively anti-MAGA, he does have valid points, and I can see where he was coming from. He has also always had a strong anti-war stance, which I admire. I'm not going to defend Yohio, though. I hate him, he's gross.