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IO+

IO+

Resonance47
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  • IO+
    Asking for a second time: Luka new version when?
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    MagicalMiku
    MagicalMiku
    on August 1st, Crypton will unveil their new products ^-^ the official press release writes that some of the new products will be released during this year: the first will surely be Miku new update NT or new NT2:miku_ani_lili:, then it might be the turn of Luka:luka_lili: (it's her 15th anniversary)or Rin/Len:len_smile_lili::rin_smile_lIlI:, and I can imagine Kaito and Meiko planned for first months of 2025 :kaito_smile_lili: :meiko_ani_lili:
    IO+
    IO+
    I waiting for like 6 years, i think and still patiently waiting.

    Hopefully they will update Luka QOL and make her more user-friendly. This might be my only request that i could asked for.

    If new voicebanks can use on vocaloid editor 4 that would be a huge plus but i don't think i can put my faith on that.
    IO+
    Seem like niconico not doing so well...
    IO+
    A little bit of update

    Resource - Mixing breakdown

    Introduction What's this mixing breakdown is all about? - How to approach a mix. - Workflow. - Analyzing the song in detailed. - Mixing method, thought behind process. - Making decision through information that we has been gather. - Psychology...
    vocaverse.network vocaverse.network

    I like to compare mix to food, it feel like making a sushi. Raw fish and rice is like a raw materials for mix and seasoned with vinegar, wasabi and soy sauce is like mix with bunch of plugins flavor. Although, sushi are considered to be an artistic and highly skilled Japanese cuisine but it doesn't matter how skilled the chief is if materials is bad.
    IO+
    It's sad to see people who just bought a new pair of studio monitor and then sell it after a few days of use because it's sounds unbearably bad in their room and it's not customers fault either. They buy it because these pair are sound good, although it may sound good when you at the shop but once you got it home it just sound bad.
    We should have rent-to-try/own system. I mean... we can test drive a cars but we can't try a pair of monitor at home?

    Although some monitor are just sound bad, like Avantone mixcube, Maudio bx5, yamaha etc etc.
    IO+
    bit of updated

    Resource - Mixing breakdown

    Introduction What's this mixing breakdown is all about? - How to approach a mix. - Workflow. - Analyzing the song in detailed. - Mixing method, thought behind process. - Making decision through information that we has been gather. - Psychology...
    vocaverse.network vocaverse.network

    I find that this song can provied an good example because it's require a basic tools and simple setup, a barebone stock plugins can get it done.

    Although. . . song like this can be blessed and cursed at the same time. Because it's prone to overcooked, so everything we do it need some consideration.
    IO+
    Updated

    Resource - Mixing breakdown

    Introduction What's this mixing breakdown is all about? - How to approach a mix. - Workflow. - Analyzing the song in detailed. - Mixing method, thought behind process. - Making decision through information that we has been gather. - Psychology...
    vocaverse.network vocaverse.network

    If you have any suggestion, please let me know.

    It may take much longer to finish the mix breakdown resources but i will keep it straight forward.

    I think that if peoples want to become good at anything they have to make their own decisions, generate their own alternative paths and pick what the best for them.
    IO+
    I wanted to make a mix breakdown as resources/guideline but i don't know which song i should use, so i looking for opinion which songs are you interested in?
    I do have all project files for my covers, i haven't decided it yet.
    IO+
    I do a ear training with other instruments like piano but this time i do a ear copy with vocaloid, it's not my idea but my friend ask me to do it.
    It's like a relative pitch ear training, tonal memory but with vocaloid.

    I have to get it very close to the original song possible (pitch and timing) while keep vibe of the song in check. Also i have to mention that i do not own Rin voicebanks, i just borrowed a friend's laptop for temporary use. I feel comfortable with vocaloid editor but i never use rin before, it is nice to try something new.

    Rin vocals (unprocessed)

    Mixed

    Song: ロストワンの号哭 (Lost One's Weeping)
    Music: Neru

    I think original song use Rin v2 but my friend only have Rin v4. I do tired to switch voicebanks with Luka and AI, both of them sounds broken so i guess, it can not use the same project file.
    IO+
    I used synthv quite often recently, although this is just a free version but it quite powerful. I use Rikka, Teto, Saki as main singer, but why AI tend to overuse vibrato too much? I really struggle to get it right, Although. I find that Saki AI probably the most well trained AI, especially the vibrato part. Very tasteful.

    Thing about AI is that they are really good at produce sibilant sound and accents (in vocaloid you have to input the value note by note), not sure about other AI engine though, probably not much different, if at all.
    I actually like saki sounds, not saying that other AI is bad by any means but saki really shines when she sing a song like this. I don't stand a chance if i have to tune vocaloid to sound like this.


    Rather poor rough mix, sorry.

    Band: kalafina
    Song: storia
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    lIlI
    lIlI
    There's a vibrato slider under Vibrato Modulation in Defaults - Sing Mode of the Voice panel if that helps! I'm not 100% certain if it's present in the free version, worth checking. You can also reduce it by turning down Expressiveness in global settings of the AI Retakes panel. I agree it's heavy on most VBs by default, I usually have it turned right down.
    Alphonse
    Alphonse
    I don't know if her lite version received updates, but Teto SV's first version had very strong vibrato and that was removed in later updates.
    IO+
    IO+
    I just re-check and i found vibrato modulation inside voice panel as @lIlI suggested, but it seem like manual mode can only control all vibrato for the entire song, though i think it is sufficient.

    @AddictiveCUL (Add) You should try it. Synth v is really good and very ergonomic to use too.
    Most importantly. . . it's completely free but download all lite vbs is a little bit tedious.

    I like the way synthv control the vibrato, start, depth, freq is all i could asked for.
    IO+
    I think i understand why some producers have quite a lot of voicebanks in their correction. I used to think that one vb is more than enough. Although, it it true to some extend but if i tried to squeeze a one vb to fits in such a wide range of genres, it's proves to be very difficult. This might be the reason. But some vbs can do it all which is exceptionally rare in my opinion. Believe it or not, even AI couldn't do it.
    IO+
    I actually really like the concept of do-it-all editor that can use various vocal-synths so i don't have to spend time learning new editor. Since time can be invaluable.
    The idea is it's streamlined the workflow and standardized all editor and merged them into one tiny package. Potentially standardized phonemes and all syntax.
    IO+
    I like how vintage headphones using exotic materials like amorphous diamond, titanium, blue sapphire, gold, sliver etc to make a driver diaphragm. It's almost non exist on most headphones today and you'll be lucky if you find it made from beryllium but these thing is so highly toxic.

    I guess we stuck with polypropylene, aluminium or nickel like material for driver... although these material has nice property for sound production but it's does not hold it original sound that well.
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    WyndReed
    WyndReed
    My open back headphones have titanium plated drivers and they were not cheap. I have to think that any headphones with drivers made fully from exotic materials would be very costly.
    IO+
    IO+
    Last time i saw headphones with titanium coating driver and it cost like 800usd, it's very costly as you mentioned.

    Material alone does not guaranteed the great sounding headphones, most characters of the sound come from the driver housing design. You may find that some of the expensive one made from oak wood or something similar with a fine craftsmanship and also the ear pads design. It plays such a important role to the sounds, headphones is no good without it.

    Although i believe these exotic materials what gives headphones personality.

    This is my opinion but i feel like Headphones market doesn't excited me as it use to be. I always find that any headphones i can afford it's just sounds similar but it look different. If i wanted a amazing sounding headphones they are either vintage pairs, a good mods headphones or top the shelf headphones that cost similar to a cars.
    IO+
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    WyndReed
    WyndReed
    While I think it would be cool for people to be able to make vbs for discontinued software, it’s still illegal to do so.
    pico
    pico
    @WyndReed I really don’t think it was necessary to reach out to Yamaha about what randoms on the internet are doing— they’re a massive company and can take care of themselves. They don’t need community members to defend their TOS for them.

    Disregarding that though it was extremely dumb for these people to forget every basic rule of operational security and market their homebrew projects to the community as if they were products. If they had let this stuff remain “underground” as with other homebrew projects I honestly highly doubt there would have been issues, but presenting it in this form muddies the water from the perspective of a corporation. Unsurprising outcome and they definitely brought this upon themselves
    bibbs
    bibbs
    the worst part of the crime was the name
    IO+
    If anyone own a pairs of sony v6, 7506, cd900 you may already know that stock pads are the weak point of these headphones, these pads are 70s-80s design, very fragile, doesn't hold the shape that well, rather poor noise isolation, overall not good for a long sessions.
    I always looking for better alternative aftermarket pads(even a knock-off from china) and end up with Yaxi stpad1 but these pairs cost like 50buck imo it's a little bit overpriced for a synthetic leather pad. The quality of the pads are similar to a stock pads from yamaha hph mt220 which is ok but if yaxi pads cost like 40, i think it's a fair price.

    Although i was impressed by yaxi pads for their performance and comfortable, it's even more impressive to think that it can retain most of the signature sounds of these headphones, which is very very difficult to achieve by a aftermarket pads.
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    InstallGentoo
    InstallGentoo
    I keep the pads because they are the right spacing. If I want over ear headphones to minimize bleedthrough in the pads I use the OneOdio pair.
    IO+
    IO+
    I still prefer stock pads but the overall cost for changing the pads every 3 months for over a decade is cost more than the headphones itself.

    It's quite tedious to do so often, so i decided to switch to yaxi pads. I don't regret it though... Actually it more like a improvement for these headphones, especially the low bass.

    I do love to modified my headphones, to improve them both sounds and artistic looking and i take my pride for it, but headphones pads is the last piece that i wanted to mod or change it. These replaceable pads have such a huge impact to the sounds that most people didn't realize and i take any decisions to change it seriously.

    Although there is a better headphones out there like Beyerdynamics dt990 or yamhaha hph mt7-8 A technica m70, shure 840 etc, but these vintage sony headphones is still amazing.
    A
    AOnes
    They seem to have returned again
    IO+
    I've been using Miku Dark a lot recently, i have to say, i really like it very much. It's one of the voicebank that can put an example as a well excuited and well engineered voicebank available. Although, Miku Dark is not as sound dramatic like many voicebank that can express their feelings with an honestly (tonal) but her voice has it's own atmosphere.

    A rough mix, almost the same file as Luka with slightly tweaking. I have very little problem while mixing her voice, almost instant result.

    Best of all, she's sound soothing and moist.
    IO+
    Most of the time when i looking for a new utau and bunch of them look promising, so i download them and try it, my first impression is completely flip upsidedown. The art cover, mmd model and those stuff is quite good but the voicebanks itself is like a half-baked bread, some vb can't even function properly. It get tired real fast when i download it like 10+ of them and all of them does not meet the standard that voice provider claim about.

    Although their demo are sound too good to be true, is that VP using AI to make a demo while release their voicebanks as cv cvvc? This is scam? If not i don't know what to call it.
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    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    @IO+ Sorry, kinda curious here, but how would phase issues make a vb worse? I can kinda see that it would cause some volume errors when transitioning between note to note (That I already find myself in some vbs and never discovered why), but I'm not so sure. For me phase would only become an issue if we were talking in a mixing context since phase is more of a problem when we are trying to overlap sounds. Correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, I also agree. Idk if most of these people are actually using AI, but nowadays I can't see why people wouldn't make up their voicebanks to "sell" them as good.

    Btw, you said "...phase misalignment, etc)..." what would that etc be? I want to make a good utau voicebank someday and as much as I can have from these technical stuff to avoid problems the better would be to me.
    IO+
    IO+
    @AddictiveCUL (Add) Phase will slightly off at some point by tiny amounts which is acceptable, unless they have access to proper room for recording. However a decent amount of phase misalignment will affect the entire mixing context.
    Phase alignment issue is not a problem on it's own because, most utau out there record it with just one microphone and we have plugins to do this kind of job by rotaring the phase so this problem shouldn't exist in the first place, but for some reason i find that almost all vb i downloaded have phase issues, i guess they either try to use 2 mic for no reason or they use defective or low-quality equipment without proper ADC (analog-to-digital converter). All signs of symptoms seem to point the finger toward poor recording equipment, these can include a lack of basic recording knowledge.

    Btw, you said "...phase misalignment, etc)..." what would that etc be?
    Click to expand...
    What i found is that VP are either too close to the mic or too far away fom the mic and does not align to the center of the microphone during recording, so their utau are either sound to tinn or too boomy and seem like there is no control over plosives and fricatives sound either. Other than that it's all about how VP config their own voicebanks properly, but after i play with their vbs for an hours i would say that the condition is quite worrisome.
    IO+
    IO+
    DC offset is also the problem i found in most vb i downloaded. I think VP might have faults in the power system, such as short circuits or ground faults that can result in DC offset or defective equipment as i mention above. It's not a big deal and can be easily fix by just a few click, but if it so easy to fix why VP not fix them during recording/editng?
    I guessing that they either don't know how to or don't care or both.

    A miniscule amount of DC offset is fine but moderate amount of DC offset can turn your headphones into ears heater.
    When fed with music, which is oscillating current, the spekaer physically moves, dissipating some of the energy into the surrounding air and objects, while the rest of the energy is converted to heat. On the other hand, when fed with DC, the speaker does not move (except only briefly when DC is introduced), so all energy is converted to heat.
    That being said, any speaker can be easily destroyed without any sound at all, only with sufficiently amplified DC It will emit smells and smoke in complete silence.

    The truth is most peoples listening with ear buds/in-ears and these equipment have MUCH smaller and finer voice coil which mean these equipment have such a tight tolerance and can be easily damage, deformed, once they take damage. It is permanent. This happen to me before.

    With all of these long explain, i let you decided this should be a serious topic that VoiceProvider should really put alot of care or it just another random rant on internet.
    I'm not saying: Hey, it's your job, so do your job because utau is just a hobby. It is understandable that not all people have access to a decent recording gear, but doesn't mean it can't be done well (atleast trying to)
    IO+
    Mix practicing, with rock song, there is 2 part with difference approach, first one is more aggressive, second one is very close to original.

    Original song from niki



    Rock song is not my strong suit so i think it's nice to step outside of comfort zone for better learning.
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    IO+
    IO+
    Thank you for the feedback response!

    The first track i put more emphasis on attack of the snare and oomph of the kicks, i feel like guitar is quite dominant so i pull mid frequency out of the side channel by a tiny bit like -0.4/-0.6 dB (very wide Q) and mid channel out a little bit just 1dB (Q factor is a little wide) i think attack of the snare and meat of the kicks should come up (which it does).
    I still think snare need a little more work but the song itself is quite full already and it will get brighter when it louder so i don't have much option. I decided to use clipper to chop the peak of the snare to get more attack. This may sound counter-intuitive, chopping the click sound off to get more click. . . but it work.

    The second track i didn't do much, mostly a tiny eq correction and done, this track is already great from the start. I don't think putting more plugins would improve anything so i leave it as it is.
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    In the first one I feel the sound is more fuller, I guess you would need a little more of work on the vocals to make them sit well in the mix, but it's definetly sounds like the "right choice".

    The second one I feel like it is easy to hear that there is a spot for the voice to sit on, what is pretty good, but I like the huge instrumentals more.

    Both are incredible tho, love your mixing skills! *3

    Btw, I always follows the rule "Don't mess with what is already mixed" bc I'm a newbie. But hearing your results I think I should try messing with it too XD Thanks for the insight.
    IO+
    IO+
    Thank you for the feedback! The first one is sound very similar to the cover i made Here and i realize that i made a mistake, so i start to practicing with this song again.

    Btw, I always follows the rule "Don't mess with what is already mixed" bc I'm a newbie. But hearing your results I think I should try messing with it too XD Thanks for the insight.
    Click to expand...
    My advice is to believe in yourself, make a move and commit to the decision you made. I made a mistake too. . . A lot of it. Just like anyone else's but i respect my decision and if some thing wrong i will or at least try to correct my mistake.
    Let's say, you spend sometime mixing a song and in the end it's doesn't sound right, you can simply remove all plugins!
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