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IO+
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  • I find that my plugins toolbox getting smaller and smaller every years.
    3 years ago i have like 200-ish plugins, now i only have 22 plugin left and most of them can be replace by stock.

    Do your plugin lists getting smaller too?
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    No, mine were always small. Like 3-10 ^3^ I mean, there was once I installed some, but right now I guess it's just 10 plugins. Maybe more because I downloaded some AI plugins to test that I never used.

    I like to search a lot about the stuff I get really interested too. When I discovered I would need to mix my own covers I started to search about tutorials of how to tune, a lot of them said that having tons of plugins wouldn't be good (Specially if I didn't even knew what they're supposed to do), so I never had that much.
    bibbs
    bibbs
    IO+
    IO+
    @AddictiveCUL (Add) I agree that having too much plugins is kinda counterproductive, having so many option can negatively impact the speed of work.

    Most of the plugin in my toolbox are very easy to use, like 2-4 knobs or 2 sliders and all i do is just crank it and let plugin do all the work. I find that it work best for me.

    I watch some audio engineer guy on YT and they have something like 2000+ of plugins.
    My brain probably exploded if i have that much plugins.

    @bibbs I think linux can be good alternative, but finding a decent plugin or people who developed plugins for linux can be difficult.
    Why do people who use studio monitor tried to chasing a flat frequency response? It doesn't make much sense to me, and these magic flat freq resp doesn't exist either.
    MagicalMiku
    MagicalMiku
    :mell_lili: :kanatomell_lili:totally agree! also, the word "monitor" explains it all: like a pc display monitor, a headphone/speaker studio monitor can be adjusted to the user needs/likes. they have a very good audio reproduction, almost in a "neutral" way, which as you said is different from a flat frequency. And then there is also the audio signature of every brand, for example a Sony headphone will always sound very different from a Audio Technica, Yamaha, and so on. I think is so important to have some different products to try: while studio monitor are great during the production process (being a new song, video, remix, cover, etc..), then the listening process of the final result is better with more products of different brands, and they don't need to be the expensive ones, a good song is always a good song:haiyi_lili_smile:
    IO+
    IO+
    Exactly as you describe, any playback system that have word "monitoring" or "reference" on the nameplate are (generally) more accurate when it come to impulse response and frequency response between left and right channel, it doesn't matter if it has flat frequency or not. Although word "natural" is a bit sketchy to say (more like a opinion or subjective) but any playback system that considered natural sounding, most of them have smooth frequency response that look like a tilt eq. Although this is such a subjective topic since people perceived sounds differently.

    Being studio monitor or mixing headphones does not mean it will have flat freq or natural sounding for the entire spectrums however, some playback system are purposely tune for specific frequency and it may not sounds pleasing at all.

    There is a tons of examples of playback systems that have such a bad reputation for their horrible and painful sounding, i give a few name for example like sony 7506, yamaha ns10, yamaha hs8 etc, etc. I own some of yamaha headphone monitor too and it just sound as bad as my yamaha hs6, but these equipment are sounds bad for a reasons and if listen carefully these studio monitor mostly tune for mid-range. Not surprised that it sound like a beat up cardboard box, but these "bad sounding" monitor are so so good at the job and their only one purpose job is to tell the listeners the truth. If song have a problem, it will tell listeners right away.

    Then again, you are absolutely right about using multiple playback system for reference, and it don't need to be expensive.

    A good song will stay that way, as you said.
    IO+
    IO+
    I hope people don't get triggered when i say the product they worshipping are bad. Just in case, i didn't mean to disrespectful anyone or brand.
    Although xsy in vocaloid 4 can morph a voice by design. Though the manuals say it morphing sound in gradual and progressive way but the way they do is crude and inefficient, so they drop this concept in v5 and v6, but as the editor and coding getting more advance and more efficient, why yamaha still refuse to put it in their newest editor?
    IO+
    IO+
    What is the fandloids? Sorry but i'm not familiar with this word.
    MillyAqualine
    MillyAqualine
    @IO+ Fanloids mean any 'loid (especially those back in the 2009-2010 era when there were very few Vocaloids available) that are derivating from existing vocaloids (ranging from regular genderbents like KAIKO or MIKUO to variations like the Shion brothers or Haku, Neru, Tako Luka, and even vocaloids that have nothing to do with the voice sources they come from like Mouya Metene or the specific Annoyloids series starting with Kagami Kawaiine using gackpoid as source voice)

    Now UTAU had gained more attraction through the years, and the appearance of other synths like Cevio, deepvocal, synthv etc now some people feel like there's no use anymore to create fanloids ; but it doesn't avoid people to do so (on my side i've imagined two genderbents called Maria Gloria and Cosmos, respectively based on TONIO and galaco, as well as vaguely imagined Miguel and Oscar for MAIKA/Ona though those ones never had a design)
    IO+
    IO+
    Well, that still kinda weird but interesting one. I think fanmade vocaloid have nothing to do with yamaha itself in anyway. Even though peoples steal the vocaloid sdk and create their own voicebanks and go as far as creating an activation license for the voicebanks they made (I don't understand how they can call themselves a fans or enthusiastic group, these are thief behavior) but yamaha seem to ignore it.

    Just to remind that yamaha is such a gigantic companies like Mitsubishi, They made a LOT of stuff from Big bike, engine, sports boat, microchip, semiconductors, mixing consoles, sports equipment to flute for 5 yo kids.

    I guess that's the main reason why they're slow and fall behind, because vocalsynths is not the main priority for yamaha.
    Why people's are so offended when the products they use get criticize, even though it is a constructive criticism.

    It's like any slightest negative opinion mean attempt to attack their identity.
    IO+
    IO+
    I think everyone has their own ego. Pridefulness and personal worth is not a bad thing in my opinion but i find that even the truth is sitting in front of their faces they just simply ignore facts. Not only that, they took it personally and fought back like there is no tomorrow.

    I'm confuse.
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    @IO+ Ego is not bad in on itself, but it doesn't mean it don't have any bad side to it. If someone associates their identity with certain subject they will defend it with everything they have because they feel not like it's a critic to the subject, but to themselves.
    IO+
    IO+
    I don't think this is my rant topic but i truly disappointed in people's. This make me feel like they reject rational thinking and turn themselves into a mere primate.
    Do you guys interested in song's breakdown or full mix breakdown?
    IO+
    IO+
    I will let my friend know. I'm just translator though, it's not really my mix or my song. Although, feedback seems very low.

    I will inform who interested via inbox since this more like a private class Livestream. A very detailed breakdown (1-2Hrs+).
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    AddictiveCUL (Add)
    @IO+ I don't have money, I'm poor and too lazy to work! '3' If he does it for free I'm in, but I have to say I guess I'm not his intended public XD
    IO+
    IO+
    Oh, pardon me. I forgot to mentioned that it's completely free, just like any of my service's or any mixing requests I've been done so far, i do it for free. I truly believe in hornor systems.

    We currently using honor systems as i suggested. You can join livestream. Paid or not, it doesn't matter anyway, because we treat everyone equally. However, you can donate whenever you feel like to, She would be really happy if she got some love back.

    I try my best to keep it short and straightforward as possible.

    Why it is important to learn how to estimate the song's BPM? since there is a lot of software that can do a calculation or searching online is seem to be more practical.

    The purpose is to build a muscle memory until it become natural. This is a fundamental skill for musician, composer, producer or any music related job, it's the same thing how musician estimate a pitch or keys of the song's.
    MagicalMiku
    MagicalMiku
    very nice tutorial! and I agree that doing that by ears not only is more satisfying, but in some cases it can be also more accurate compared to a software measurement. especially if the song has a dynamic style, and you know the voca P signature (think of avtechno or pinocchiop unique styles), doing by ears is the way to go :miku_ani_lili: :meiko_ani_lili:
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    IO+
    IO+
    I'm glad this can be useful.

    As you mentioned, there is a lot of song that have tempo fluctuations, some of the song are more subtle, some are more wildly. Although most of the pops song today using static tempo.

    This skill are more or less important depend on the job, if you are working as DJ's or live performer then it is very important to estimate the tempo as accurate as possible (ideally +1/-1 BPM Error tolerance), meanwhile others music related job like composer, producers, audio engineer these skill are less important, since they work in close/private environment but this skill is good to have nonetheless.
    InstallGentoo
    InstallGentoo
    The tempo changes I notice when it changes phrase or section in the more interesting songs. (also a bane for any rhythm game player).
    Practicing articulation with Luka, make her sing english(in japanese accents) a little bit more lively.

    Luka say "sayonara memories" without articulation

    Luka say "sayonara memories" with articulation

    I like to say articulation because i do not use evec since it doesn't work that well so i extract luka voice sample and morph it manually i think this method is time consuming but very detail, since i can precisely control voice sample.

    Although, rarely say a lot of good thing (mostly bad) about Luka. That doesn't mean it's a bad product though, i hope people don't get so offended from that. Actually. . . i enjoy using it.

    Maybe i'm enjoys an activity that appears to be painful or tedious.
    mobius017
    mobius017
    By "voice sample," do you mean the full phrase, or individual phoneme samples? Also, how do you morph manually--Melodyne?
    IO+
    IO+
    By "voice sample," do you mean the full phrase, or individual phoneme samples?
    It's must be individual phoneme samples as i suggested, because i can't control full phrase voice since vocaloid engine is already synthesized. Any change in pitch and timing will affect formants quality (it may sound thin/hollow or it doesn't sound like Luka anymore) this mean a standard pitch shifting doesn't work that well.
    Meanwhile, using individual phoneme samples offers an very detail for edit, stretching, formants editing while maintain highest fidelity possible (still sound like Luka). I use this method to control how strong or soft the of voice most of the time, i can control the tension (not growl) in the voices too but it doesn't have a lot of headroom to edit.

    This method work best if voicebank have multiple voice libraries (evec included).
    Example: Miku have multiple voice libraries such as Original, soft, dark sweet, power

    *if voicebank have single voice libraries then, this method probably not doing much at all.


    After i got all phoneme samples i need, i go back to DAW and edit audio files in traditional way, which may appear to be extreamly painful or tedious process to most people.
    a precise cut and fade in-out control is a must have skill.

    Also, how do you morph manually--Melodyne?
    I use a modified circuit Yamaha TG33 it's a 90s-ish Vector synthesis, although a custom build sy22 or an1x, sq80 is work too (or anything that have CPU inside it) but i don't even think about modding these synthesizer since these synth are the relics from the past right now and should be keep it true to the original unit.
    You can use any morphing software however, it's much more powerful, cheaper and more convenience.



    Very soft renri voice, it is UTAU


    A soothing Luka voice and making vflower sound a little softer
    There is a little drama about people who work as freelance composers and Art/PV creator. Both side between client and freelancer they are treating terms of service with respect until they can not meet the deadline so client simply reject all the processes. It's kinda long story but I'll keep it straight.

    So, what you guys think? Who is on the right side and who is on the wrong side?

    This is not a bait question, there is no right or wrong answer either, just curious.
    mobius017
    mobius017
    If both sides agreed to the terms that the art/PV work could be rejected if it wasn't completed on time, then the client is behaving acceptably from a legalistic point of view.

    That said, it's not a great thing to do, and it seems like a waste of time/effort for all concerned to throw all that work away if the delay is going to be reasonable. It would be better to be flexible and wait for a reasonable time and put together the output that was planned.

    Those terms presumably exist for a reason, though--I'd assume to prevent the art/PV creation from getting stretched out to some unreasonable period. It's reasonable for there to be some kind of guidelines to prevent that, if that seems to be necessary.

    On the other hand, it only makes sense to throw all that work away if the client has some other means of getting their art/PV made. Maybe they were working with multiple artists at the same time--which seems like kind of a jerk thing to do; even if all the artists were paid, all of their work probably wouldn't get used in the final product, which would be disappointing and wouldn't provide the exposure they expected. Or, if the client got any WIP materials along the way, maybe they're feeding that to another artist, or even to an AI, to complete the work--neither of which seems ethical, either.
    IO+
    IO+
    After reading through all the drama, I think the main reason is the money. Client already pay a half and freelancer refuse to return it because his work is almost complete(like 90%) so i think it's too hrash for to just simply rejected but it's also their fault that they can not complete their work on time.

    Although, these terms of service is more like a "gentlemen's agreement" in this kind of work environment.

    I always respect deadlines like my life depends on it and i completely understand and respect people who value their time, but in real life. There is always something happening and they can not control it. I think it's a little bit unfair to saying that "i reject all your work because you can not complete it on time while their work is at 90% complete" but it also fair to say that "you break the rule first so i reject all your work"
    This plugin is nice, very simple to use.

    Yamaha made a lot of good synths, even their digital vintage stuff is great, although it (arguably) not as good as Korg, l feel like their modern keyboards synth are not as good as other western brand like Oberhlem, Access, etc. Meanwhile their flagship Yamaha Montage are double the cost of most flagship synths out there. . .

    Yamaha Motif xs, MODX is fantastic and all but they drop the ball or something, im not surprised if people turn away and buy a Roland synths instead.
    MagicalMiku
    MagicalMiku
    I love using Korg keyboards as midi keyboard, they are excellent for that, and I think one very good thing about Yamaha keyboard/synths in general is their grand piano sound, and also the quality of each key, even on less expensive products ^-^
    IO+
    IO+
    That's great! Korg weighted keybed are one of the most realistic one (close to 1:1 weight ratio in 80s era). Meanwhile a 800$ modern 2023 midi keyboards still can't get it right.

    I think one very good thing about Yamaha keyboard/synths in general is their grand piano sound
    I can't argue with that, it simply fantastic. . . I always looking for Piano Sound Voice 1-14 factory preset when i use my motif xs8 rack.

    I still love my yamaha keyboards/rack (although their keybed is a bit too sqishy) but i just feel a little disappointed that their flagship Montage M are not so different to much older synths like Motif. Yes, for a live performing montage are just better when compare to the Motif but is that it?

    Yamaha Montage win about overall weight i guess (over 30kg with everything).
    It's free for a limited time (website account needed)

    Look like it modeled after vca dbx 165A
    I felt like Luka's users are reducing each years, maybe others non AI voicebank suffers the same issue too? I don't know much about vbs popularity, maybe i have to start watching vocaloid ranking again.

    Talking about sound is quite subjective but in the use case, Luka's is like an odd balls among all crypton family with questionable gimmick like EVEC. Yes, she sound unique and no other voicebanks is like her but this apply to other banks too.

    Her voicebank is full of issues like inconsistency of phonemes editing, inconsistency of vibrato, lack of smoothness, glitches, audio warping, weird noise in certain performance, excessive fundamental tone, rather poor optimal range handling, poor harmonics handling etc etc. This just scratch only surface though, with all of this issues, the complexity level start to add up very quickly. After you done tuning then you have to deal with her again during mixing and because of her poor harmonics performance, she can be perceived as sound weak or strained and combine with Luka's excessive fundamental tone, her voice can be ear piercing and that's not a good combination.

    Either peoples get tired of using her or finding better alternative so it wouldn't surprise me.
    Maybe it just me but i don't like EQ with graph and curves that much because there is tendency that i try to make a EQ curves look beauty rather than make it sound beauty. Do you guy are victims too?
    InstallGentoo
    InstallGentoo
    It sould be hard looking at what I'm cutting out if it's by ear and knobs only. Then again I'm completely inexperienced with mixing and don't touch it beyond presets and just having it there just because.
    IO+
    IO+
    Oh, that's quite the opposite to me, when i use eq with fixed band i usually spend time with eq less than a minute but when i use something like pro-q i tend to spend a lot of time tweaking it.
    I still remember back then, there is a eq module with only 3 band with fix frequency point (4-4.5 band is considered a luxury) and it's so so hard to go wrong when eqing even though have 0 experience, i still do decently well with it.

    Some old analog mixer don't even have eq, so i have to used gain as eq.
    If OS keep getting upgrade to the point that your software (DAW, vocal synth editor etc..) are not working anymore and this is the software that you depend on it everyday. What do you do?

    Stop upgrades your OS in order to keep using the software? or finding alternative software?

    I just curious, because there is a lot of peoples who still use 15-20+ year old software everyday.
    I mean, some producers that i know still using Windows XP.
    MagicalMiku
    MagicalMiku
    I would say stop getting OS upgrades, because the software I use is all I care about. for vocal synth and DAW software is not easy to just say "use a virtual machine" or "use linux with wine software to use it" because in those cases there will easily be some audio lag/issues.
    indeed, many producers and companies of all kinds still use windows xp or windows 7, and because buying an used PC with win xp is very cheap, I support them. In the meantime, I would also look for some alternatives for the future, or just buy some extra old PCs :haiyi_ani_lili:
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    IO+
    IO+
    I completely forgot about buying extra old laptop. I'm still using my old toshiba laptop that i use for programming the rhythm sequence and midi mapping for live performance, it's such a well build machine but it's already exceeding it's lifespan(27y/o laptop). The program i use is very old too and it doesn't work with modern CPU and if i use modern sequence control software, i cannot use my old keyboard and sound rack. This seems to be the only option i have.

    I do use a up to date DAW like reaper, mostly for editing, recording and mixing, but when actually i making a song and anything sound design i still use cubase 5 (2007 i think). I fear that one day my vocaloid 4 will not work anymore because it's too old to keep up with modern hardware and software.
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