Unpopular Opinions

[TheStarPalace]

I've never seen a thread like this on here before, so I thought I would ask VVN about what minority views they hold, or think they hold?

Some of mine:
-I'm much more interested in English Vocaloids over all, I didn't really get into this subculture until I found English voices.
-I love how V4 growl sounds.
-I don't see anything particularly great about the average Vocaloid concert other than the chance at meeting new fans.
-Cyber Songman's name isn't bad, you're all just mean.
-I understand why people compare Vocaloid to bands like the Gorillaz and the Studio Killers, and I think there's some merit in that comparison.

Please don't use this thread to brag about yourself.

 

[CallmeNerdy]

I wanna try this...
- Miku is the easiest vocaloid to handle for me (Her English VB as well).
- I dunno if its unpopular or not, but I think that its unfair that some fans complain about Miku having more VBs than the other Cryptonloids, but almost no one is saying anything about Gumi. I mean, I want Gakupo to have an english VB too!
- I love ZOLA Project. (Especially Wil)
- I don't care much about 'realistic' voices in Vocaloid.
- VY2 needs appends too.
- I find KAITO and MEIKO's voices a bit too flat. (V3 specifically.)

 

[RawBeansP]

- Male Vocaloids are actually great, y'all are just mean
- Lumi isn't generic, she has a very unique voice and accent
- Avanna is the clearest and easiest Engloid to date (when you use her in her right genre)
- I like Anon more than Kanon (Kanon is still great tho)
- Songman is the english male we needed for years and it's a damn shame no one ever uses him
- Kaito's English is actually some of the best of the japanglish banks
- Chika has a glorious design but she's basically Gumi and I can't tell the difference between the two in voice
- the Zola Boys are still some of the best Japanese loids we ever got
- I don't really like Gumi's design
- Hio is a very clear Engloid and he doesn't deserve all the hate he gets
- I want a Tonio and Prima update far more than a Miriam update
- Magical mythical beast Vocaloids, like Lumi and Tonio and Lapis, are amazing and I want more ever crazier designs

 

[uncreepy]

- I don't really like Gumi's design

I've never seen anyone say they like Gumi's design, other than the fact that fan art of Gumi in her official outfits existing proves there are people who like her outfits. o~o;

 

[RawBeansP]

I've never seen anyone say they like Gumi's design, other than the fact that fan art of Gumi in her official outfits existing proves there are people who like her outfits. o~o;

I mean I think most people agree that her official art isn't amazing, but I really meant her overall design-- outfits and all. I like her hair esp when its depicted as being shorter in the back and longer in the front, I think that's cute. But overall I think all of her deisgns are fashion disasters

 

[Fukase]

-I use Engloids more than Japanese Vocaloids.
-I don't think Fukase looks creepy, I say he's very cute and adorable.
-I love drawing Engloids.
-I am not much of a Vocaloid shipper, but I do enjoy drawing couples at times. (That includes Fukase and Oliver)
-I don't think of Leon and Lola as twins.
-I find Dex and Daina fun to use.

 

[Hatsune-hakase]

Only one I can think of, and I'm not sure if it's even unpopular:

Luka V4 English is the best Engloid.

Oh I just thought of another one:

I see a lot of people complain about English-language Vocaloid producers always making "depressing" songs, but I think this is a dumb thing to complain about. Sure, maybe a lot of the songs technically have depressing or dark lyrics if you pay close attention to the meaning, but that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the song, and actually find that listening to it puts you in a good mood (and not in a "I like dark/depressing things" way, but just in a "I think the song sounds cool" way). Also, lots of JP producers write depressing songs too (e.g., almost every PinocchioP song is pretty depressing).

 

[ZAR-PARTY | ЦАРЬ-ПАРТИ]

- Miku V4 (and even V3), Luka V4X, GUMI and the CYBERs are the easiest understandable Engloids
- I don't understand what the other Engloids are singing. Most of the time
- Miku best waifu
- SONiKA could easily become popular if there was quality
- If a VOCALOID is tuned "like a human", it does not necessarily mean that it sounds "good"
- Robotic voices can sound nice too if the music fits
- The fandom should be allowed to call their haters however they want. That's called tit for tat.

 

[WintermintP]

I see a lot of people complain about English-language Vocaloid producers always making "depressing" songs, but I think this is a dumb thing to complain about. Sure, maybe a lot of the songs technically have depressing or dark lyrics if you pay close attention to the meaning, but that doesn't mean you can't still enjoy the song, and actually find that listening to it puts you in a good mood (and not in a "I like dark/depressing things" way, but just in a "I think the song sounds cool" way). Also, lots of JP producers write depressing songs too (e.g., almost every PinocchioP song is pretty depressing).

I'm going to counter this with another unpopular opinion.

Truth is, it's not just the western producers. More than 80% of the Vocaloid songs that come up on my feed are depressing, sad, or downright violent songs in some way. If I saw maybe half the songs I see being like that, then that would've been fine, but the problem is that there are just too many of them. Also, such lyrics are usually dealbreakers to me when it comes to any song, unless they're political, and even then, I'm more into the call-to-arms kinds of songs or the ones that are expressing frustrations about the state of the world because they're relatable to a lot of people. I would never think a song sounds cool unless it's got cool riffs or something else in the instrumental that's eye-catching. Otherwise, they're not going to jive. Honestly, I would rather listen to metal songs with philosophical lyrics instead, or maybe Amon Amarth songs.

Speaking of lyrics, I also think people are not trying hard enough to write metal/metalcore (or even hard rock) songs with uplifting or happy lyrics. Just because it's metal it doesn't mean it has to be dark. You have "Twilight of the Thunder God" by Amon Amarth, "Children of the Grave" by Black Sabbath, "Painkiller" by Judas Priest, "We're Not Gonna Take It" by Twisted Sister, "Indestructible" and "The Light" by Disturbed... What do they all have in common? They're all redemption stories! That's one of the reasons why even I've been striving to write metalcore songs that have uplifting themes and melodies exactly. That's what I'd like to see more of for a change.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[ohpeach]

I don't like Dex and Daina anymore because it feels like they're constantly being shoved in your face nowadays
It feels like if you don't like those two, you're betraying the fandom or you're not a real western fan anymore
and I'm sitting here like...their voicebanks aren't even that good? Somehow Dex's voicebank is stronger and more powerful than Daina's, even though Daina's supposed to be the stronger tone and "tomboyish" rock vocal?
Also I don't like how they sound so much more synthetic than other vocals before them?
Ruby and Cyberdiva both sound more natural than Dex/Daina. Dex literally just sounds like a straight computer singing, as if he hadn't been voice acted at all. It's like his samples had been run through auto tune or pitch correct and then sent in to Zero G// Tho I still prefer Dex over Daina tbh. I just think he sounds better, even if he's a whole lot more synthetic sounding than the latter.
They just feel like a step down in quality from Avanna, who was so much more natural sounding imo? And I know that some people get really particular about using the words "realistic" and "natural" when describing vocaloid tones, but I don't really care- that's how I describe it best lol
sue me right

Also can we please stop writing pop songs
and dark sad songs
using these two
tbh I don't mind pop songs with gumi, tho I wish yusukekira would switch it up a bit more// he's starting to do the same sound syndrome that circus has started to get into with his last couple of songs

furthermore I like to ship dex w seeu (which i know is forbidden to have straight ships in the vocaloid fandom beyond miku kaito (jkjkjkjkjk)) more than I ship dex with other male vocals, tho that seems to be increasingly more popular as well

but yeah
I just have strong feelings about these two
i like them but i also dont like how theyve just become like the big ticket items
im holding out hope that another english vocal will come that'll blow them out of the water and people will be able to take off their rose colored glasses and see that they're not the godsends that people think they are//

 

[WintermintP]

I don't like Dex and Daina anymore because it feels like they're constantly being shoved in your face nowadays
It feels like if you don't like those two, you're betraying the fandom or you're not a real western fan anymore
and I'm sitting here like...their voicebanks aren't even that good? Somehow Dex's voicebank is stronger and more powerful than Daina's, even though Daina's supposed to be the stronger tone and "tomboyish" rock vocal?
Also I don't like how they sound so much more synthetic than other vocals before them?
Ruby and Cyberdiva both sound more natural than Dex/Daina. Dex literally just sounds like a straight computer singing, as if he hadn't been voice acted at all. It's like his samples had been run through auto tune or pitch correct and then sent in to Zero G// Tho I still prefer Dex over Daina tbh. I just think he sounds better, even if he's a whole lot more synthetic sounding than the latter.
They just feel like a step down in quality from Avanna, who was so much more natural sounding imo? And I know that some people get really particular about using the words "realistic" and "natural" when describing vocaloid tones, but I don't really care- that's how I describe it best lol
sue me right

Also can we please stop writing pop songs
and dark sad songs
using these two
tbh I don't mind pop songs with gumi, tho I wish yusukekira would switch it up a bit more// he's starting to do the same sound syndrome that circus has started to get into with his last couple of songs

furthermore I like to ship dex w seeu (which i know is forbidden to have straight ships in the vocaloid fandom beyond miku kaito (jkjkjkjkjk)) more than I ship dex with other male vocals, tho that seems to be increasingly more popular as well

but yeah
I just have strong feelings about these two
i like them but i also dont like how theyve just become like the big ticket items
im holding out hope that another english vocal will come that'll blow them out of the water and people will be able to take off their rose colored glasses and see that they're not the godsends that people think they are//

I feel you on this wholeheartedly, but what I'd like to add is that neither Ruby nor Cyber Diva were all that useable either. You can actually hear Ruby's stutters and other pronunciation glitches in covers where she was used. That already is a sign of trouble. And Cyber Diva, as much as good her clarity is, the nasal sound of the bank is just too obvious to overlook. I'd love to try my hand at Oliver more but I have no clue if he's still going to be available for purchase and even then, my debit card is not looking good so that's not happening any time soon.

Come to think of it, as impressive as his range may be, I'm not a fan of Fukase either. Not only is there an additional policy where you can't use the bank commercially unless you pay extra (and who knows how much that'll be, I imagine it to be at least $10K), but he has really obvious computer-like problems as well and the bank is really starting to feel like a waste of money going into the production.

And what the hell is up with Tonio? I mean, I get that he's supposed to be an opera tenor but he's nowhere close to fulfilling this role. His tone is too soft and he's, again, just downright nasal, so I have no clue what they were trying to do with the bank.

I've seen good Sonika songs but she's V2 and V2 isn't supported anymore so I can't really write new songs with her.

So it's really sad that the real viable options for Engloids other than Avanna are the ones where the VP are Japanese and not native European or North American, and even then what choices do we really have? Miku V4? Maybe Luka V4? Maybe Meiko?

That's not to say that Japanese Vocaloids having English banks is bad or anything, and if there's enough work put into them I think they'll make great options and we need that, but I honestly think there really needs to be more real viable options when it comes to Engloids, because right now, I'm really not seeing any.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[ohpeach]

I feel you on this wholeheartedly, but what I'd like to add is that neither Ruby nor Cyber Diva were all that useable either. You can actually hear Ruby's stutters and other pronunciation glitches in covers where she was used. That already is a sign of trouble. And Cyber Diva, as much as good her clarity is, the nasal sound of the bank is just too obvious to overlook. I'd love to try my hand at Oliver more but I have no clue if he's still going to be available for purchase and even then, my debit card is not looking good so that's not happening any time soon.

Come to think of it, as impressive as his range may be, I'm not a fan of Fukase either. Not only is there an additional policy where you can't use the bank commercially unless you pay extra (and who knows how much that'll be, I imagine it to be at least $10K), but he has really obvious computer-like problems as well and the bank is really starting to feel like a waste of money going into the production.

And what the hell is up with Tonio? I mean, I get that he's supposed to be an opera tenor but he's nowhere close to fulfilling this role. His tone is too soft and he's, again, just downright nasal, so I have no clue what they were trying to do with the bank.

I've seen good Sonika songs but she's V2 and V2 isn't supported anymore so I can't really write new songs with her.

So it's really sad that the real viable options for Engloids other than Avanna are the ones where the VP are Japanese and not native European or North American, and even then what choices do we really have? Miku V4? Maybe Luka V4? Maybe Meiko?

That's not to say that Japanese Vocaloids having English banks is bad or anything, and if there's enough work put into them I think they'll make great options and we need that, but I honestly think there really needs to be more real viable options when it comes to Engloids, because right now, I'm really not seeing any.

Regards,
WintermintP

It's funny you mention that about ruby and cyva bc personally I like them even less than dex and daina because of how nasally they can both sound
but personally I would take Cyva's nasality over Dex and Daina's synthetic roboticness any day of the week. Ruby not so much.
Ruby got ruined for me after all that crazy insane drama she was involved in and ever since I just haven't been a huge fan of her voice
Not to mention her voice actress, who literally held Ruby hostage because of a miscommunication. It was such a poorly handled debacle I'm just...it actually ruined a vocal for me. It's wild

I agree with you on Fukase. I don't really see the appeal in him except that he's kind of creepy and therefore is prime for making those spooky songs that the west loves so much? And of course he's got a weird eye so everyone has to ship him with oliver- lol it's meant to be
What I don't like about Fukase so much is that you can't make profit with him. It sounds shallow, I know, but making music for some people is a dream career. If you can't use a vocal to make that music people are just going to go and pick a different one, which is the case with Fukase. I don't really see him used too much anymore, let alone with original songs.
Privatizing his rights is what did him in, in the end, I think. The only vocal I've seen that work with is Utatane Piko, and even then he wasn't hugely popular, himself. He has a good number of notable originals however, which is more I can say for Fukase...or Mirai Komachi (rip)

 

[Pomelo]

It still bugs me that Rockleetist's RIP=RELEASE lyrics are considered the "standard" English version (I hate it).

 

[DefiantKitsune]

Privatizing his rights is what did him in, in the end, I think. The only vocal I've seen that work with is Utatane Piko, and even then he wasn't hugely popular, himself. He has a good number of notable originals however, which is more I can say for Fukase...or Mirai Komachi (rip)

Fukase outsold Piko by a lot... also Fukase has WAY more originals than Piko when you account for age.

Piko was one of the biggest flops in vocaloid b/c Sony can't market anything.

 

[RawBeansP]

Come to think of it, as impressive as his range may be, I'm not a fan of Fukase either. Not only is there an additional policy where you can't use the bank commercially unless you pay extra (and who knows how much that'll be, I imagine it to be at least $10K)

What I don't like about Fukase so much is that you can't make profit with him. It sounds shallow, I know, but making music for some people is a dream career. If you can't use a vocal to make that music people are just going to go and pick a different one, which is the case with Fukase. I don't really see him used too much anymore, let alone with original songs.
(rip)

I’d like to swoop in here and say that all it is is that they want 15% of profits of whatever money you make with Fukase, they don’t want all your money just a small portion of it. They also do this with fan merch like charms and plushes. It’s not a million dollars lol

 

[WintermintP]

I’d like to swoop in here and say that all it is is that they want 15% of profits of whatever money you make with Fukase, they don’t want all your money just a small portion of it. They also do this with fan merch like charms and plushes. It’s not a million dollars lol

So how does one even distribute the said 15%? Also, a commercial licence to use Avanna's character, which I've talked to a Zero-G representative about, is actually 100,000 GBP. Or was it 10,000 GBP? Does the 15% cut work the same way with Nemu?

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[uncreepy]

Also, a commercial licence to use Avanna's character, which I've talked to a Zero-G representative about, is actually 100,000 GBP. Or was it 10,000 GBP? Does the 15% cut work the same way with Nemu?

That doesn't make sense, me and RazzyRu contacted Zero-G about using Avanna for commercial purposes and they said they didn't want any money. The cost of a character license is different for individuals who make peanuts vs. a big record label or company that pumps out merch like figurines.

Here's my really stinking long contact exchange between certain companies (not finished, though). See page 17 and down. In the following spoiler I wrote out a long example of my business plan to Zero-G that involves selling CDs and merch with Avanna's design/name.

Email exchange

Hello, I'm trying to collect some information regarding selling music commercially made with your Vocaloids ("additional separate license" costs).

From my understanding, if I want to use the term "Vocaloid" and one of your Vocaloid's name/character design to promote my original song, I have to buy a license in order to sell the music commercially. I am interested in finding out the cost(s) based on the following theoretical situations and how many different types of licenses I would need to achieve this plan:

For example, let's imagine this is my song-distribution plan...

1. I made an original song with an original animation (music video) featuring Avanna (for example) and used the keywords "Vocaloid" + "Avanna" in the title. In the music video, you can tell it's Avanna, but I changed her design to be futuristic or something.

Can I put it on YouTube and get ad revenue (monetization)? Would I need a license or not? If so, how much would it cost?

2. I also sold that same song on Bandcamp (digital distribution).

Are digital downloads okay, or can I only sell physical CDs?

3. People loved my original song + music video so much that I make a T-shirt and key chain featuring the futuristic design of Avanna and sell it online/at conventions.

Would this require some other type of merchandise-related license?

4. I eventually put said song featuring Avanna along with about 10 more songs on a physical CD to sell.

For licensing fees, would I have to pay a per song to your company?

Does the license expire? If so, how often can I renew it?

Are the licenses the same for every Vocaloid you sell?

Can I avoid the fee(s) by not mentioning the song was created with a Vocaloid and instead use a completely original character for the animation/music video + CD + merch?

Thank you so much for your time.

MY NAME


Zero-G’s reply to uncreepy:

My email was forwarded from [email protected] to [email protected]

Hello MY NAME

Thank you for your mail. In reply to your questions I can simply say that provided you have purchased Avanna there are no restrictions as to what you do with any songs you create using her voice. We do like you to credit Vocaloid, Avanna and Zero-G if possible in any sleeve notes or credits.

Using your own artwork is fine. If you want to use the official original artwork then we do ask you write to us for permission.

If you have any further questions please contact me again.

Good luck with your Avanna music creations

Best Regards

Dom Keeffe

Zero-G

I've also contacted about Lapis and Yamaha Vocaloids and they literally don't care what you do. Most Vocaloid companies only care if you want to use the box art illustration if you can't draw, then you need to pay up.

 

[idoltrash69]

-I heavily dislike Creep-P's and Ghost's music
-"Echo" by Crusher-P is overrated and not even good
-Tone Rion ain't that bad
-Gumi ain't that good

If I think of more I'll add them!

 

[WintermintP]

That doesn't make sense, me and RazzyRu contacted Zero-G about using Avanna for commercial purposes and they said they didn't want any money. The cost of a character license is different for individuals who make peanuts vs. a big record label or company that pumps out merch like figurines.

Here's my really stinking long contact exchange between certain companies (not finished, though). See page 17 and down. In the following spoiler I wrote out a long example of my business plan to Zero-G that involves selling CDs and merch with Avanna's design/name.

Email exchange

Hello, I'm trying to collect some information regarding selling music commercially made with your Vocaloids ("additional separate license" costs).

From my understanding, if I want to use the term "Vocaloid" and one of your Vocaloid's name/character design to promote my original song, I have to buy a license in order to sell the music commercially. I am interested in finding out the cost(s) based on the following theoretical situations and how many different types of licenses I would need to achieve this plan:

For example, let's imagine this is my song-distribution plan...

1. I made an original song with an original animation (music video) featuring Avanna (for example) and used the keywords "Vocaloid" + "Avanna" in the title. In the music video, you can tell it's Avanna, but I changed her design to be futuristic or something.

Can I put it on YouTube and get ad revenue (monetization)? Would I need a license or not? If so, how much would it cost?

2. I also sold that same song on Bandcamp (digital distribution).

Are digital downloads okay, or can I only sell physical CDs?

3. People loved my original song + music video so much that I make a T-shirt and key chain featuring the futuristic design of Avanna and sell it online/at conventions.

Would this require some other type of merchandise-related license?

4. I eventually put said song featuring Avanna along with about 10 more songs on a physical CD to sell.

For licensing fees, would I have to pay a per song to your company?

Does the license expire? If so, how often can I renew it?

Are the licenses the same for every Vocaloid you sell?

Can I avoid the fee(s) by not mentioning the song was created with a Vocaloid and instead use a completely original character for the animation/music video + CD + merch?

Thank you so much for your time.

MY NAME


Zero-G’s reply to uncreepy:

My email was forwarded from [email protected] to [email protected]

Hello MY NAME

Thank you for your mail. In reply to your questions I can simply say that provided you have purchased Avanna there are no restrictions as to what you do with any songs you create using her voice. We do like you to credit Vocaloid, Avanna and Zero-G if possible in any sleeve notes or credits.

Using your own artwork is fine. If you want to use the official original artwork then we do ask you write to us for permission.

If you have any further questions please contact me again.

Good luck with your Avanna music creations

Best Regards

Dom Keeffe

Zero-G

I've also contacted about Lapis and Yamaha Vocaloids and they literally don't care what you do. Most Vocaloid companies only care if you want to use the box art illustration if you can't draw, then you need to pay up.

I'm pretty sure what I asked about them had more to do with the name than the character artwork, but that's okay, I heard similar things from other people in that regard as well.

Regards,
WintermintP

 

[RawBeansP]

So how does one even distribute the said 15%? Also, a commercial licence to use Avanna's character, which I've talked to a Zero-G representative about, is actually 100,000 GBP. Or was it 10,000 GBP? Does the 15% cut work the same way with Nemu?

Regards,
WintermintP

The money they ask for is for the use of the voice bank as well as the character. They simply want 15% of profit made from whatever money you earned from Fukase, whether it was a song you wrote a charm you made. You send them an email, they'll usually ask for a copy of the song or product, and they'll have you sign a contract with everything you need to know. That money goes to Tokyo Fantasy, who the singer Fukase Satoshi works for, not Yamaha.

As uncreepy said, each company handles commercial uses differently. If you want to know about Nemu you'd have to email Yamaha and ask about her terms. But for specifically Fukase they only take 15% of your earnings with him.

And tbh Tokyo Fantasy isn't that big on going after every single small artist using Fukase, in the same way most companies don't care about small artists selling fan art at conventions. They'd really only go after someone who made lots and lots of money from Fukase, or someone notable (like Circus for example) using him without a contract.