Unpopular Opinions

[AlienSpooN]

i'm not sure if these are unpopular, but here they are anyways

~I don't really like Aoki Lapis' voice, it sounds a bit like a chipmunk to me. I do like that she looks like a ring pop though

~I don't mind seeing "hate" comments on songs I like, because I personally like getting constructive criticism. as long as it isn't spam

~in most cases I really avoid listening to songs using Voicebanks such as Ia, ONE, or Zola project. not because there's anything wrong with them, just because of the crazy lore behind the characters.

~CosMo@BOUSOU-P and LamazeP are gross

~i don't like VanaN'Ice, the way Len is portrayed in most songs feels a bit creepy to me

~Arsloid's design is a fashion disaster

~i like it when people express negative feelings in their songs. its nice to find something that you can relate to when you're feeling down, it really makes you feel seen. I don't find it "overly edgy," "repetitive," or "trend-hopping."

 

[Bookworm2]

~CosMo@BOUSOU-P and LamazeP are gross

What do you mean by that? Not trying to be mean, I'm simply curious for your reasoning.

 

[AlienSpooN]

@Bookworm2 CosMo has made multiple loli/shota songs, and Lamaze has made a lolicon song as well

 

[aokilapislover]

i'm not sure if these are unpopular, but here they are anyways

~I don't really like Aoki Lapis' voice, it sounds a bit like a chipmunk to me. I do like that she looks like a ring pop though

~I don't mind seeing "hate" comments on songs I like, because I personally like getting constructive criticism. as long as it isn't spam

~in most cases I really avoid listening to songs using Voicebanks such as Ia, ONE, or Zola project. not because there's anything wrong with them, just because of the crazy lore behind the characters.

~CosMo@BOUSOU-P and LamazeP are gross

~i don't like VanaN'Ice, the way Len is portrayed in most songs feels a bit creepy to me

~Arsloid's design is a fashion disaster

~i like it when people express negative feelings in their songs. its nice to find something that you can relate to when you're feeling down, it really makes you feel seen. I don't find it "overly edgy," "repetitive," or "trend-hopping."

the first one feels like a personal attack.

 

[aokilapislover]

I avoid SynthV songs like the plague ESPECIALLY if they use Tetos vb, I've talked about this before so I wont go into too much detail but something about the vbs are so uncanny

 

[Beananium]

I feel like the rise of people headcanoning Teto as chubby / fat is a prime example of how common fatphobia is in not only the Vocal Synth community, but in the English speaking fanbases for Japanese media in general. Like... I thought having headcanons that come from a place of making fun of characters for their appearence instead of the want for more Vocal Synths to have the traits we and our friends have in real life and the appreciation of those traits was something that we stopped doing in the late 2010's.

A good chunk of the more comedic artwork with this headcanon I've seen get popular are... extremely mean spirited? Always pointing Teto's weight out in comparison to Miku (who's always thin) and making fun of it, as well as often characterizing her as lazy and/or a glutton for bread, with the framing that's why she's fat (ignoring there's many contributions that could lead to weight gain besides inactivity and overeating).

Engaging with the writing of fat liberation activists while i was doing reaserch to help me write my own portrayal of a Vocal Synth being plus sized, alongside my own experiense and feelings on this topic, gives you a new perspective on how accepted and quirky its seen as, even though "making fun of physical appearences" is otherwise universally seen as a low blow.

besides... i don't even know how teto being lazy became such a common headcanon? i always saw her as working extremely hard for years prior to getting her big break in au's where i portray her as human.

... For a much less loaded unpopular opinion, I really wish KAITO V3 Soft was used more in original songs instead of V3 Straight. I think his softer voice is just way better for a lot of the more recent songs I've listened to.

 

[Bookworm2]

Unsure if this is unpopular, but I feel like poor/little mixing is excusable ONLY and I mean ONLY if the person doing so is new to producing/making covers. If it's someone who's been making covers for a while, like around 6 months-ish, then they should have learned a little bit at least and be trying to improve their mixing skills actively. But someone who's new to VocaSynth producing or just likes the silly characters and wants to make shitposts with them shouldn't be judged so harshly! I've clicked on many a YouTube cover by a new producer and seen just floods of people telling them that their mixing sucks. They aren't even giving constructive criticism on what to change to make it sound better, they're just hating on them unnecessarily. And mixing is hard to learn, I get that, but everyone was a beginner once, cut them a little slack.

 

[IO+]

Unsure if this is unpopular, but I feel like poor/little mixing is excusable ONLY and I mean ONLY if the person doing so is new to producing/making covers. If it's someone who's been making covers for a while, like around 6 months-ish, then they should have learned a little bit at least and be trying to improve their mixing skills actively. But someone who's new to VocaSynth producing or just likes the silly characters and wants to make shitposts with them shouldn't be judged so harshly! I've clicked on many a YouTube cover by a new producer and seen just floods of people telling them that their mixing sucks. They aren't even giving constructive criticism on what to change to make it sound better, they're just hating on them unnecessarily. And mixing is hard to learn, I get that, but everyone was a beginner once, cut them a little slack.

I’d like to add something about learning, understanding mixing, and human nature when it comes to learning—more of an FYI than a debate.

At its core, music is science-based, and mixing is as well. These skills require strong fundamentals in order to grow properly. Some people thrive in this field due to their environment and accessibility—things like knowledge, equipment, budget, a quiet workspace, or simply natural talent. You could call these people “gifted.” It requite a lot of thing to catch up nicely like decent equipment, good ears, experience and time.

Realistically, an average person might start to grasp the basics of mixing in about 3-9months depend on how active they are. But becoming proficient is a very different story. From what I’ve seen while still in this field, some people take a long time to develop. In some cases, it can take up to five years of active learning before someone becomes somewhat competent. Seeing how hard people push themselves made me realize just how difficult this skill actually is to understand and master. Most people simply give up including myself.

It turn out that most hating comment don't even try to understand because they are consumers(in their perspective), they judge results, not process. Most people won’t understand the process of mixing and they don’t need to. They judge what they hear, not how people got there, This is base from my experience though.

 

[Beananium]

hi its me. a guy. again

While I think having a canonized defined personality and backstory is a bit much in most cases, and that not having anything at all makes them flexible as tools for any type of portrayal in fanworks and meaning no subject matter in songs is off limits for being out of character, I really like Vocal Synths with implied roles in their own lives and relationships with other people.

Even something as simple as having bandmates, having a theme in their design talored to a specific profession, or being related to another Vocal Synth by the same company goes a long way for me. Something foundational while still having the wiggle-room to expand on that trait or relationship if desired.

On a related note, a part of me does wish AH-Software would bring Ice Mountain (Hiyama Kiyoteru's fictional band) back. Maybe not with the hyper specific lore they gave each member, and having the common practice of "you can portray these characters however you want, nothings really canon", but having some guys that Kiyoteru knows and works with would be so cool again. Though I don't know how you could both bring them back and not bring back their backstories.

 

[Beananium]

oh jeez.

I do not think it's inherently bad to dislike depictions of Vocaloids. Hell, I've had negative reactions to songs on how they portray the character in said song. I don't think you are incorrect for having this specific point of view, especially if you don't like deviations of characters in other aspects (Like their age or their height).

However, I do not think arguing the point of disliking racial and body type headcanons with lies about the people who make art for themselves and how doing that is wrong is something that should never be encouraged. And I do not think it fosters any positivity among this community; a community founded on creativity and expression.

On a related note, there's aren't a lot of Vocal Synth characters (especially commercially) who aren't pale or slim. Even English voicebanks made in countries with a high black population don't have a lot of black characters, and the only commercial voicebank with a notable design who's plus sized I can name is NYL.

A large reason why people "race-wash" popular characters is because they love the character and like to see traits they do not see in media that often in a character they love. These traits can be based on a person they love, or to see themselves in that character. They can even be for fun! I think if someone wants to take Miku, a Vocal Synth who's company has openly encouraged others to portray her however they want, and make her black for an artwork no one is paying them to make... They're not doing anything wrong and not harming others, especially when they're not being an ass about it (the "I fixed this character" argument and only changing traits to make jokes at their expense). People can keep Miku pale, skinny and Japanese if they want as well, and they're not doing anything wrong either.

A lot of the fans who do put headcanons on fictional characters in any fandom do make fan characters! However, a lot of artists that make fan characters get a lot less attention and discussion around their art of fan characters then headcanon's on preexisting characters. And making an UTAU requires a lot more work then just making and drawing a design. It isn't easy to make a whole voicebank, and most won't bother when they just want to see a fat person in the media they love.

I haven't even mentioned the extremely racist and fatphobic arguments at play. Black characters have had a much longer history of being changed to have lighter skin or even written out entirely in officially licensed adaptations, and have many more offensive portrayals that reflect the real worlds aggressive hate for black people to the point of constant social barriers that decide if they can get the essentials to live or not.

Fat people also don't have a lot of good portrayals in media, and the stereotyping seen everywhere in movies and television justify fat people being unable to access proper medical care without going on diets. Which don't solve any medical problems, just create new ones from malnutrition. Both are things I encourage looking into, especially in Japan. Colorisim and fatphobia aren't just an American issue, and Japan is equally capable of cultivating a hostile environment, even if it takes a different form.

Pretty much all Vocaloid material is fan-made. No Vocaloid fanart has the power to make CFM go "Actually, we should make Miku fat!" on an official scale on a whim. Speaking generally, if someone does not like artwork of Vocaloid's being black or fat, they can just look at thousands of others where the characters look more accurate to how they look in canon. While a couple of bad eggs will claim that their personal design is how a character should be, it should not take away how drawing and writing should be fun, and how people's differences are what makes us human.

 

[WyndReed]

Honestly, if white washing is bad then race-swapping should also be bad. They are the same thing. If I were to draw Merli with light skin, the backlash would be horrible (not that I would), but Miku with dark skin would be ok. Why the double standard?

I've seen fanfic where they take the core essence of a character and rewrite them for another location/time period/race/gender and still respect the character while doing it. My issue is that solely changing the race of a character feels very disrespectful. If someone changed the race of one of my OCs, it would feel like they weren't respecting me or my OC.

 

[Beananium]

Because the act of making a darker skinned character whiter is reflective of a mentality of it "looking better", often rooted in a thought people with light skin are just allowed to be, but black + brown people need to have justification to be included in art.

you set limits on your own oc's and your specific portrayals of miku. miku in general is not your own oc. miku does not have an official policy forcing her to be pale + japanese. people in real life dont have turquoise hair either.

 

[WyndReed]

That doesn't matter, it's the exact same thing. In this hypothetical situation. I wouldn't be drawing Merli with lighter skin or Miku with darker skin to make them "look better", I'd be drawing them that way because it's what I wanted to draw.

What we need is more representation, not ignoring and disrespecting the intent of the creators of characters. The majority of vocaloids produced are from Japan, so of course they will be Japanese. It's not anyone's job to "fix" existing characters because they want to see themselves in them, if you don't like how a vocaloid is portrayed then you're free to make your own via fanloids/derivatives/your own utau.

 

[bibbs]

i can't count the amount of plus-sized teto artwork i've seen lol.

culture war stuff always gets people fired up. the idea of telling artists what they can and can't make never sits well with me. intention matters above everything else.

i remember when brazilian miku was going viral it started a trend of other national mikus, she was depicted as white, black, latino, asian, and everything in between. people were just having fun making art.

but, brazilian miku went viral at the same time that the x/twitter ban happened in brazil, and i remember extreme nationalist groups using the image of brazilian miku in protests. i think (hope) most people would find that distateful.

i'm also sympathetic to the idea that pale skin is perceived as more beautiful, when that image has its roots in a long history of racism. but how much accountability can you put on an artist who lightens the skin of a character? this could be a 13 year old child intuitively picking colors that they think look good, which just so happens to be a cultural bias that's been drilled into them their whole life. that's more of an indictment on the broader culture than the artist as an individual. and social media is not conducive to responding to these sorts of things productively, devolving into bullying and threats to the artist.

i guess this is all a long winded way of saying the art isn't the problem. it's what the art is being used for, or what how the art exposes cultural biases that society should strive to do better with.

 

[Beananium]

I do think bibbs has a great point. Talking about how the dislike of "blackwashing" may reflect a regressive mindset is much more productive then harassing someone for drawing a character a few shades lighter then they are in canon. My intent was not to attack specific people, rather reconize when an argument can discorage the sort of unique creativity we do not get in basically any other form of media and their fandoms. I feel strongly about this topic, and if I did end up being petty about it instead, I do apologize.

I can say I encorage further reading on why making characters black and fat in their personal portrayals could mean so much to someone struggling with their own image, and thinking about how it does not hurt anyone as much as drawing Miku as she appears on her software's box art does not hurt anyone. But in the end, I can't really force anyone to. I just ask that people do not harass or get agressive anyone over any sort of opinion in this subject.

 

[lIlI]

That doesn't matter, it's the exact same thing. In this hypothetical situation. I wouldn't be drawing Merli with lighter skin or Miku with darker skin to make them "look better", I'd be drawing them that way because it's what I wanted to draw.

What we need is more representation, not ignoring and disrespecting the intent of the creators of characters. The majority of vocaloids produced are from Japan, so of course they will be Japanese. It's not anyone's job to "fix" existing characters because they want to see themselves in them, if you don't like how a vocaloid is portrayed then you're free to make your own via fanloids/derivatives/your own utau.

The reason we react differently is because ethics are influenced by context. The simplest example is Robin Hood: our culture normally says 'stealing is bad', but in the context of Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor, he is considered a folk hero doing good. Should he be treated as a criminal because either way, it's stealing? For most people, context is key, as the popularity of this story demonstrates. This is where much of the complexity and nuance of ethical discussions comes in.

So what makes something immoral is effected by not just the basic action, but to whom it's being done. Taking food from someone who's starving is generally seen as much worse than taking food from someone who has more than they can eat.

This is why why the negative impact of altering a character's skintone to be lighter is considered much worse than the opposite. For people with pale skin in Japan and around the world, positive, varied representation is abundant; whereas for people with deeper skintones, it's common to grow up facing violence, oppression, discrimination, and consequently see far less of yourself in artwork - and making that artwork you do see all the more meaningful.

If you make a character paler, you are making this problem worse: like taking food from someone already starving. If you do the opposite, you help lessen the problem, like redistributing food to those in need.

As for respecting the creator's intentions: don't worry. Crypton themselves has supported and encouraged diverse representations of Miku (even making their own Worldwide Miku series!).

It's also important to remember that Japanese people have a more diverse range of skintones than as represented in most Japanese media - it's in fact very common for Japanese people themselves to have higher levels of melanin. Many people aren't aware of the diversity of Japanese skintones because media disproportionately represents Japanese people as very, very pale; unfortunately influenced by local issues of colourism and racism. From the oppression of the indigenous Ainu people to the colonisation of its neighbours: Japan, like so many cultures, has it's own history of racism that influences its art and beauty standards, with 'skin whitening' products often sold on makeup counters. There are Japanese activists calling for better, more diverse representation, who criticise the obsession with paleness. Japan is not a monolith, so it's essential to dispel the myth that they all prefer and have pale skin, and not to make assumptions, or speak on behalf of, indivisuals.

 

[Alphonse]

This is why why the negative impact of altering a character's skintone to be lighter is considered much worse than the opposite. For people with pale skin in Japan and around the world, positive, varied representation is abundant; whereas for people with deeper skintones, it's common to grow up facing violence, oppression, discrimination, and consequently see far less of yourself in artwork - and making that artwork you do see all the more meaningful.

If you make a character paler, you are making this problem worse: like taking food from someone already starving. If you do the opposite, you help lessen the problem, like redistributing food to those in need.

Who decided Japanese people, who are still literally POC, mind you, have "enough" representation that it's okay or good even to take from them and make it into black representation?

 

[junky]

Isn't the lack of black vsynths *because* the lack of interest in them? Things like Black Miku are taking away representation from vocals like Asterian and NYL. Most people making Miku black think "black Vocaloids don't exist" which is super annoying considering the first two were black soul vocalists. I've never seen Black edits lead to actual canon representation. All of the good Asterian content I see comes from Eastern fans, people here act like he doesn't exist because they think him and other black Vocaloids aren't "cute" or "interesting" enough, or even "ugly/boring" which is sad.
You guys made a cutesy fandesign for Yi Xi, who's canon "design" is just two letters, what's stopping you for doing that for the black Vocaloids?

This is also why despite loving male Vocaloids I groan when people complain about the lack of them, the few people interested in them usually don't buy them! Young girls with high pitched voices are practically the only vsynths that sell at this point and that's why every vsynth is oversaturated with them. We live in a capitalist society, we have to vote with our wallets. From what I see Miku fans usually buy every voicebank, sometimes even multiple times and that's why the Vocaloid market is the way it is.

(Also..I hate the idea that Asians aren't POC/"POC enough." I've seen people on twitter unironically argue East Asians are white, as if racist hate crimes towards them didn't increase during COVID)

 

[junky]

V5 and V6 are overhated, I feel like people blame their lack of skill on the engine.
I like the SP banks and am happy that there's variety/not all vsynth companies still not trying to sound realistic.
People complaining about calling non-Vocaloids Vocaloids is annoying, the Japanese fandom does it all the time. It's "Vocacolle," not "Onnseigouseicolle!"
Vocaloid fans seek validation from people outside the fandom too much. We will always be considered weirdos, a Western Vocaloid song will never win a Grammy and that's okay. Please stop sending paragraphs explaining Vocaloid to people who couldn't care less!

 

[Tortoiseshel]

I have been summoned from my social media sabbatical by bad takes about race and fandom

• So-called "blackwashing" will never, ever, ever be on the same level as whitewashing (at least in any of our lifetimes) because of the literal thousands of years of colorism and racism discriminating against people with darker skin tones. In almost every culture in the world, darker-skinned people are treated as less-than in nearly every metric- beauty, intelligence, merit, class, even more "concrete" things like income is often lower if your skin is darker. (There are a few exceptions, such as music or sports, but it should be noted that those tend to be entertainment fields which has its own implications). So the social dynamics behind a lighter-skinned character being drawn darker are vastly different than the opposite.
• When people on social media talk about "blackwashing characters", they're usually talking about two very different situations: The first is something like Disney (one of the biggest corporations in history) changing Ariel from white to Black in the live-action Little Mermaid remake. While the vast majority of outcry against this was just bald-faced racism, there were some people asking if taking a white story by white writers and musicians and just changing the lead to a Black woman really counts as meaningful Black representation, which is actually a pretty good question in my opinion. It's not like there's a shortage of Black creatives out there, maybe it would be better to just give them a chance to tell their own stories instead of just remaking old stuff with a few new faces! If we lived in a reasonable world, this would be what the term "blackwashing" would be used for. But we don't. So it's not. :(
• The other situation is random people online, very often Black and/or dark-skinned themselves, drawing or editing their favorite characters to look more like themselves because they are starved for representation. This is completely harmless fun and anyone who harasses these people- who are very often literal children!- is a dickhead.
• Whitewashing of characters in fanart online likewise generally refers to two different situations: There's the accidental or thoughtless lightening of skintones, as is often seen in fanart by Japanese and other East Asian artists. East Asia has a very long history of colorism that even predates European contact- to the point where "white skin" is sometimes seen as a sign of moral or even spiritual virtue- so these instances tend to be borne of the artists' unconscious biases coming through in their art more than any deliberate malice. While I think this is something everyone, including them, should work to unlearn- racism and colorism is a global phenomenon- being dogpiled online by foreigners who barely speak the same language as you is probably not going to be the best way to go about that.
• The other version is racists whitewashing characters purely to make the "blackwashers" mad. They also tend to make characters specifically blonde and blue-eyed, i.e. "Aryan", because these people are often literal Nazis as well. These losers know what they're doing and do not deserve your good will or patience. Car hammer explosion all of them.
  • It also shouldn't be left unsaid that while Black/dark skin fanart and edits is almost always made out of love and can often be beautiful and technically impressive just as standalone artworks, these pieces invariably look like dogshit. So, you know, in case you need any more differences between whitewashing and "blackwashing".
• "Person/People of Color" is a term coined in the United States- a country where whites are the majority, both numerically and politically- to refer to non-white people. Removed from that context, it's not really useful. A Japanese-American person is going to have a completely different life experience and relationship to whiteness/white people than a Japanese person born and raised in Japan. And that's especially in terms of media representation- in Japan, the vast majority of people you'll see in your mainstream media will be other Japanese people, while in America, your options are going to be much more limited and narrow. That's why I always have to laugh whenever nettouyo on Twitter say stuff like, "But you're taking away my Japanese representation for your Black representation " because they probably see a higher percentage of Japanese faces in their media than I do white faces here in America! So... yeah, if we're talking about East Asian characters from Western creators- Sonika and ANRI for example- I'd call those POC. But East Asian characters from East Asian media- like Miku or Teto or... the vast majority of vocal synth characters- I honestly would not call them POC because of the context they primarily exist in.
• Lastly, regarding Black!Miku taking away from actually Black characters like Asterian or Nyl or even Leon and Lola, I think that's a very fair criticism... but only if you're talking specifically about vocal synth fandom. Because for as popular as Miku and a couple of her friends are, vocal synthesis is still very niche and most of the characters we love are completely unknown to people outside spaces like these. Most people drawing Black Miku (or Brazilian Miku or whatever) probably aren't really fans of Vocaloid or any synth in particular, they just like that there's this cute character that can be and look however you want her to. She's basically Virtual Japanese Barbie for the 21st century in that way. That being said, I absolutely want synths like Asterian to get more use, and it does suck that we're still being inundated with cutesy teen pop idol voices! But I'm not a musician so

Side Yap

Also if you hate people changing character appearances, you'd hate how I draw Vocaloids lmaooooooo I don't even let them have unnatural hair and eye colors