Other Software Maghni AI by Crescendia

[Rylitah]

ES' promises were grounded and smaller scope than Crescendia/VT's, whose project had untenable scope and excessive amount of red flags since its conception that had been discussed at length in this thread. I disagree with the framing of this outcome being a "failed coin flip".

We should neither fear monger nor give unfounded good faith, but instead, encourage critical thinking when deciding on backing a CF. It's true that sometimes, there are no red flags and things still go awry, but that was not the case with Maghni.

Perhaps my post wasn't worded well (which would be fair! I mainly wanted to provide an opinion that wasn't just "don't trust any crowdfund ever" and was less about Maghni itself; I didn't mean to imply that there was no cause for worry about this one at all) - I agree with you overall. Even with the WhiteCUL example I mentioned, ZAN-SHIN has had its own history of controversy though nobody probably expected the specific issues with that crowdfund to happen.

I do think that VocaTone's involvement played a large part in why people wanted this to succeed, however. Oliver has had and still does retain a large fanbase who desperately wanted to hear any sort of update for him, and Ausgris (now Aurum) also was an older project that people were excited to see come to life. I wouldn't blame them for backing with just that as their reasoning (and I'm not saying that's what you're implying either, of course) - from the very beginning, their financial and timeline goals were always lofty and has been a constant topic of discussion. But a lot of people looked past that and backed anyway because... well, maybe they could do it - that's my assumption anyway, since I'm not a backer myself (though I am very close with someone who did who primarily just wanted an Oliver update). VocaTone has released products in the past that people love, and that's enough for many to have trusted them at the time of the campaign's launch.

I mostly am just of the opinion that I wouldn't want to shame anyone for backing a project like this or to say "I told you so" - they wanted it to succeed more than anyone else.

 

[___]

Perhaps my post wasn't worded well (which would be fair! I mainly wanted to provide an opinion that wasn't just "don't trust any crowdfund ever" and was less about Maghni itself; I didn't mean to imply that there was no cause for worry about this one at all) - I agree with you overall. Even with the WhiteCUL example I mentioned, ZAN-SHIN has had its own history of controversy though nobody probably expected the specific issues with that crowdfund to happen.

I do think that VocaTone's involvement played a large part in why people wanted this to succeed, however. Oliver has had and still does retain a large fanbase who desperately wanted to hear any sort of update for him, and Ausgris (now Aurum) also was an older project that people were excited to see come to life. I wouldn't blame them for backing with just that as their reasoning (and I'm not saying that's what you're implying either, of course) - from the very beginning, their financial and timeline goals were always lofty and has been a constant topic of discussion. But a lot of people looked past that and backed anyway because... well, maybe they could do it - that's my assumption anyway, since I'm not a backer myself (though I am very close with someone who did who primarily just wanted an Oliver update). VocaTone has released products in the past that people love, and that's enough for many to have trusted them at the time of the campaign's launch.

I mostly am just of the opinion that I wouldn't want to shame anyone for backing a project like this or to say "I told you so" - they wanted it to succeed more than anyone else.

I do empathize with wanting to provide a less pessimistic outlook on crowd funders as a whole! But I did feel the need to emphasize that some of the points there were not applicable to Maghni

I agree that the inclusion of VT characters played a major role. I myself have seen posts and discussions posted by fans of these characters expressing how they feel taken advantage of right now, and you're right, pointing fingers their way would be a misguided thing to do.

Simultaneously, I think the community, as a collective, could've reacted differently. Criticizing Maghni was an unspoken taboo up until semi-recently across all major platforms when that should've never been the case. People are now coming forward that they felt too intimidated to voice their concerns. I don't think our community should foster such atmosphere. Encouraging more diverse perspectives in the community could've helped people make more informed decisions on the CF.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

Simultaneously, I think the community, as a collective, could've reacted differently. Criticizing Maghni was an unspoken taboo up until semi-recently across all major platforms when that should've never been the case. People are now coming forward that they felt too intimidated to voice their concerns. I don't think our community should foster such atmosphere. Encouraging more diverse perspectives in the community could've helped people make more informed decisions on the CF.

I'm genuinely surprised there was even an atmosphere where you couldn't criticise Maghni in certain circles, because this forum was already voicing concerns about the lofty scope of the project almost as soon as it was announced. I understand fans of the PowerFX/VocaTone banks were desperate for modern updates of them, but it's crazy to back a project for a completely new vocal synth simply because of the promise of classic VBs.

Now if VocaTone had done a campaign to get their banks on V6 or SynthV, that would have made me less sceptical. Crowdfunding money for updates is far less risky than putting money down on a completely new vocal synth.

 

[___]

I'm genuinely surprised there was even an atmosphere where you couldn't criticise Maghni in certain circles, because this forum was already voicing concerns about the lofty scope of the project almost as soon as it was announced. I understand fans of the PowerFX/VocaTone banks were desperate for modern updates of them, but it's crazy to back a project for a completely new vocal synth simply because of the promise of classic VBs.

From my observation, people who are merely fans of VT characters/vbs & simply just wanted to see said characters/vbs modernized weren't the ones contributing to the suffocating atmosphere, it stemmed from a different POV.

The dev and hobbyist scenes are deeply interlinked, the companies developing Maghni have/had connections all over both scenes. If you didn't know someone from the Maghni dev team, you most likely at least knew someone who did and were a few contacts away from knowing them directly ( and probably working for them ).

There was the emotional incentive to push back against criticisms and valid concerns because you wanted to see your friends/acquaintances succeed and the financial incentive for easy commercial entry point and further opportunities. If you spoke up, you risked backlash from notable or well respected figures in the community, resulting in potential ostracization and loss of potential opportunities in the dev scene ( because high likelihood is that the same people have their own commercial endeavors & industry contacts ).

If you saw someone you respect, push back against concerns and give support to the project, it's not completely unreasonable you'd place doubts on your own reservations and maybe even extend support yourself.

And this all caused a domino effect where the community remained more outwardly uncritical than it should've until things got too dire to defend the position.

For a long time, this was the only space where people voiced their concerns probably because it's a niche platform.

 

[kimiworld]

Simultaneously, I think the community, as a collective, could've reacted differently. Criticizing Maghni was an unspoken taboo up until semi-recently across all major platforms when that should've never been the case. People are now coming forward that they felt too intimidated to voice their concerns. I don't think our community should foster such atmosphere. Encouraging more diverse perspectives in the community could've helped people make more informed decisions on the CF.

Actually, it is true though. Even to this day, people on social media platforms like X (Twitter) still feel optimistic about the development of Maghni AI. I also had huge expectations for Maghni AI because the developers had frequently shared progress updates over the past few years, and it seemed like the vocal synth engine was nearing completion, which was indeed a good sign. I even saved my own money while waiting for the new vocal synth engine and the voicebanks (especially Oliver because I want the updated version of voicebank the most). However, I overlooked the fact that very few people were involved in the vocal synth engine development (this is already a big red flag). Later, a huge fiasco happened which affected the core functionality of the Maghni AI engine, and with little to no frequent updates/progress in these recent few months, I honestly feel a little betrayed. At the same time, I also feel deeply concerned with IDK how many more backers who are yet to receive their promised items (especially voicebanks), and at this moment I don't know if any actions could be taken to solve this issue.

 

[___]

I also had huge expectations for Maghni AI because the developers had frequently shared progress updates over the past few years, and it seemed like the vocal synth engine was nearing completion

The Indiegogo should've more clearly communicated what stage the project was in.

For majority of the project's development, Maghni was an AI assisted concat synth, but years later, they made a switch to being fully AI, all the work on the engine had been scrapped and the AI version of Maghni hadn't been in development for too long.

The editor was in fact, in the "prototype" stage in May of the same year the Indiegogo launched.

and at this moment I don't know if any actions could be taken to solve this issue.

There were talks from one of the devs of open sourcing their work on this project in the worst case scenario, but I think that would be the most sensible thing to do right now. Based on what's been said by a dev, I'm of the opinion the current dev team is not letting go because of the sunk cost fallacy.

But the delivery on physical goodies remains in the air some people have received them, many have not.

But from what I've read from backers who did receive their rewards, they're not happy with them, apparently, the design bible was especially sloppily put together.

But I really am heartbroken for you and the rest of the fans, so many beloved characters and their vbs are essentially stuck in a limbo

 

[StrawbebbyPancakes]

Even to this day, people on social media platforms like X (Twitter) still feel optimistic about the development of Maghni AI.

I concur. I didn't find out about Magni until I joined Twitter a couple years ago, and discussion was so overwhelmingly positive I assumed it was a sure thing. It wasn't until I poked around on here that I realized how long it'd been in development, and how many concerns there really were.

Speaking of Twitter, user Takoyaki Donuts made this post today, and consequently it seems the floodgates are open in terms of Magni criticism. There was also a back and forth with Tart about the the current status here that you all may be interested in.

Donuts' assertion that they know more about what's going on than is public definitely makes me curious about what else has gone on

 

[lIlI]

I've seen a lot of scapegoating of the original management: I think it's worth reiterating that Crescendia's own actions have warranted fair criticism. So far they have had identical communication problems to Vocatone: promising regular updates then failing to give them, making and missing deadlines without acknowledgement - Crescendia could have avoided the majority of the bad press Maghni is currently receiving with better communication. The fandom is still incredibly generous to the project, and a steady stream of small updates would have abated any concerns about its continued development. The current situation was avoidable, and is the result of their handling of Maghni AI since the handover.

We have multiple other vocal synth teams of identical size, only working part time, who have managed to provide consistent, professional communication. The optics of this are worsened by how swift the current Maghni AI devs are to appear and crack jokes when their engine is mentioned on Discord, or answer questions and post demos informally when criticism becomes too loud to ignore: demonstrating that communicating was never beyond their abilities.

Finally, Crescendia is primarily composed of people who knew Vocatone's promises and ambitions during Maghni's original crowdfunding campaign, and chose to endorse them, promote the project, and encourage people to donate. While they may point to how overly ambitious Maghni AI's initial pitch was in hindsight: those promises were as much Crescendia's promises as they were Vocatone or Misbah's - they cannot avoid ownership of them. It's ultimately up to the current team to take responsibility, update backers and explain how and why the scope is changing. It's clear this was the result of inexperience and naivety from all parties: passing the buck isn't productive.

While it was unfortunate that the original management chose to leave: taking on Maghni AI's development was Crescendia's choice. It is now their project of two years: they cannot selectively shrug off the responsibilities of managing it. I hope they step up soon, as this is a still a situation that could easily be improved.

 

[panda_doodles_]

Can’t help but agree. It really does get to a point.

Especially with where things are at right now, even markedly smaller but more consistent updates would do a lot to keep morale up.

The outcry feels inevitable. People are tired and/or want their money back.

I’ve made my peace with it personally and still want to see the team do their work, regardless of the time it takes.
At the same time, they really do need to communicate more. Maybe it would mean stronger leadership, maybe it would mean sharing the load instead so it’s not all on one person. Maybe it would mean finding more volunteers just for updates. No clue.

But something needs to change so we don’t go back down the radio silence route.