VocaVerse Network

a very popular western producer tweeted this years ago and ive "boycotted" their music ever since, and i just saw another fairly popular producer tweet something like this again and it's like...really yall? what is the damn point of being this pessimistic and discouraging young music makers. also no one does this for any other hobby??? "not everyone can be good at art so you should just give up sorry!" "some people were just destined to never be a good cook so dont even try, you'll be bad at it forever"
ugh. sorry rant over. just...what is even the POINT of this kind of negativity?

reminds me of the discourse where ppl babbled nonsense like how ur content doesnt matter unless youre making originals and that no one cares about covers, that and what youve mentioned above is utterly ridiculous, i swear some parts of the fandom decide to be elitist about the weirdest things. keep growing and improving yall

Everyone is human we are on the same playing field for the most part (not including disabilities). Talent is a lie its just skill no baby came out painting everything is learned.

Can I ask which producers said this (dm is ok if you don't wanna say it publicly)?The chances of me already listening to them are fairly low but I don't wanna come across them someday and inadvertently listen to their stuff if this is what they think orz

It's almost as if some people make music because they enjoy it and don't really mind improving slowly. I can't shake off the weird classist undertones those sorts of sayings have either... Not everyone has the access, resources, money, or free time to improve their skills. Lord it's so tiring.

I even have heard of cases of people saying that only Japanese producers can make good Vocaloid music and that even Westerners who are trying are incapable of having "talent". And people acting like you have no business trying if you don't know music theory, as if there's no such thing as learning.

And what even is any of the elitists' definition of "good music"? Only by people formally trained in music theory? Is it just their personal tastes talking?

woah i was not expecting this to be as hot of a topic as it was, im glad to see other people feel the same!

I also remember there being a time in the vocaloid community when it was a hot topic that most younger western producers didn't know/only knew limited music theory, and some people were very mad at that because "meh you cant make good music without music theory, if you don't know music theory you and your music sucks!!!"

I think a lot of people so desperately want the vocaloid scene, especially western, to be filled with professional quality music so that it's taken "seriously"- but a large part of the fandom is young people exploring music for the first time with limited resources. When the majority of the community is like that, obviously you're not going to have billboard charting hits coming out of it.

OMG yeah, this is one of the very annoying things I ahd to deal with (along with the "mUsiC THeOriii duuuuh" well sorry but I DID have music theory (as it is an obligation if you learn to play an instrument over here, and it's not because it's mandatory that you must follow it and will be a genius)

Because then, explain me how come some of the most skilled musicians/singers ever managed to work for so long and deliver pieces of paradises to us without necessarily take any class (heck, some even couldn't make it to some graduation because they were poor or were in war places/ places where it was like war) ? And the Gipsy Kings? Heck, even a fave of mine who's yet someone serious and always had some love for classical music as much as for pop and jazz, explained while it did help him, that it was a bore

(Sequel in 3,2,1)

Moreover, some of the popular users had to build and discover by themselves, i highly doubt every western """"pro""""" Vocaloid/other synth musician was a top-tier classical student who grew up in a family of musicians and started right away with Bowie-level or Michel Berger-level of song quality on their first try

I'd also like to add you can't blame on newcomers to give up and there's no "legacy" into the fandom regarding Western musicians if you spend your whole time discourage them and thus making them give up out of spite, anger, sadness and self-deprecation

They also need to keep in mind unless you're already a professional musician in the real world, if you're a minor you have your studies to take and pass, and when you're a young or not-so-young adult like I am, you're at work so even if you work daily office hours, you can still be emotionally or physically drained out ; with the on-going crisis, IRL matter, old dark ideas kicking in randomly, I can see I struggle to focus on my music and thus it discourages me because I don't want to keep being seen as "the one who never finishes a damn thing and makes cluttered ear garbage" at the point I even don't dare to show covers and that while I do show easily snippets, I sense since I don't get that "pro" feel people don't enjoy it or ignore it

See, this is why I feel the fandom isn't dying, but may die, not only because Miku migrated towxards another program of Crypton getting involved into it, but because you scare people away who may take an interest and in the end, simply enjoy quietly in their corner while being passive, or simply drop out and label it quickly as "otaku weirdass content" and who may have gotten some nice hits or even simple cute songs or ones with powerful lyrics

It is kinda like the whole "all-in-one artist" problem where people praise so much people who are like that, that they think everyone OUGHT to meet this standard on first try ; otherwise they're not "worthy" enough to be considered as a fellow artist which is dumb because both Swiss army knives and specialists have thezir role and right to perform