Is Vocaloid For Kids?

[sketchesofpayne]

"Is Vocaloid for kids?"
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A post expressed concern about other people who had made snide remarks about things such as Vocaloid seeming to be for children, and not something adults should be involved with. I wrote a reply that turned into something I felt should be its own post. People who say things like "that stuff is childish, you need to grow up" are insecure. They try to shame others for not being their idea of what an "adult" is in order to make themselves feel like more of an "adult."


I sometimes hear of people saying Vocaloid is something "for kids," or whatever. That's total nonsense. When Hatsune Miku was released in 2007 it was mostly people in college who were into Vocaloid. And "kids" are not the ones producing music with Vocaloid. People of all ages attend the expositions and concerts. Right now there's a thread on reddit where we are talking about the various disturbing Vocaloid songs (stuff that is very much not for kids, although kids are going to listen to it anyway).

I didn't listen to Vocaloid as a kid... because it didn't become a thing until I was in my twenties! Now I'm in my thirties and I'm more into it than ever. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Vocaloid gives a lot of people a chance to create music who wouldn't have done so without it. You get this sincerity from Vocaloid songs you don't hear elsewhere. The anonymity granted by Miku's voice and persona let people open up about their feelings in a way they could never do by themselves. And there are no marketing executives deciding what does and doesn't get published. That's what makes all of this still meaningful to me 14+ years later.

If it was just another anime thing about idols, doing songs that have been commissioned from studio artists, with a tightly controlled Intellectual Property, and studio executives calling the shots; you know, content created by a typical commercial enterprise? I would have lost interest long ago. But CFM just made a music software tool with a creative commons licensed avatar and let people go nuts with it. It became this thing with a life of its own. Thousands, thousands of new songs every year. Made by people who just have a passion to create something. And it's the ability to shape and modify a common avatar, a character, a symbol for us all to collectively identify with that is the glue that holds it all together.

Cheerful uplifting tunes, soulful ballads, lively hip hop beats,
hard metal riffs, cute bubbly pop songs, dream-like trance tones,
jamming rock guitars, thumping techno, sweet funk vibes,
experimental nonsense, powerful anthems, chill rhythms,
wild melodies, somber poetry.

Deranged meditations on madness, high-energy celebrations,
heartbreaking tales of life and love, jubilations of unity and friendship,
bitter laments on the human condition, hopeful words of comfort,
screams of despair and confusion, peaceful reminiscing of fond memories,
unchained anger and rebellion, affirmations of love,
tears of frustration, tears of joy and relief.

It's all there. Side-by-side in this seething mass of human expression that we call music.
Sometimes I don't even understand the words or language, yet the message gets through; the feelings are real.

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So when people, in their ignorance, dismiss all of this as a thing for kids or children because of some superficial appearances. They truly don't know what the hell they're talking about.

 

[MillyAqualine]

Totally agreeing with every point you've made! It reminds me that time when trying to seek paths for a school project I've brought up the possibility of using vocal synth but wasn't much into it since it was a bit off-topic with what we were asked to do -I didn't tell them I was into it nor I was an UTAU user- and the geek of our class then said "ah yeah, the one with cute anime characters singing cute songs"

And I was thinking like "......eeeeeh yeaaaah, obviously you didn't listen to Gomenne gomenne or Senbonzakura =' ) "

When I was just discovering Vocaloid (and UTAU at the same time) I was only 15 years (and even a bit younger since i've spent one year before trying out Utaforum and getting into utau) or so, and went active a few months later ; hence why my first utau Sakanne is 15 years and a half since it was the exact age I was when I've created her during my first high school days, as in, the very three first one because I was in my corner and was too shy to socialize right away OTL

So, during my first years I would be seeing more people in their late teens/20's creating covers and originals featuring vocaloids and utaus, while people around my age were actually rather rare (or at least, not as talked about and promoted as adults) and both on Japanese and Overseas sides, with early big names like shu-t... Anyway, just look at how costy they were, even back in that time ._. Even V1/V2 were still a bit costy and even if you had a few cheap choices, msot of them were already around 100 bucks like nowadays so unless you were from a wealthy family or were having a job with some income, it was a big luxury item -and still is now...

And it goes about the voicebanks and the editors in themselves, but I'd still make the same comment about DAW and real instruments. When it comes to special instruments like celtic harps (yeah, even if they're smaller and cheaper than orchestra-typed harps they still cost a lot, and 15 years later it's even worse) or even more regular, popular ones like violins, piano, guitars, basses, you ought to either have a ton of money to spend or rent them so as I said, unless you come from a wealthy background, you better be an adult with a job -or a student with a job- and even, it is still barely affordable without having to make choices and sacrifices for most of people in general... Or how Kontakt and FL Studio are incredibly expensive, even for the smallest bundles ! Sure you still have the demo to play with, but you have to finish your song in one blink and export since you'd need the real, paid full version to acces it back in your projects -ditto with virtual instruments that are only included in the biggie-biggest bundle... Taking the example of FL Studio, the most basic one comes at around 80~100€ and can cost up to big sums pretty easily if you add samples pack that aren't included in it (also while I'm at it, there are some offers up to 6th of January 2022 but beware it's still pretty expensive for the giant ones) so obviously, do you really think a child or a teen can spend so much to create music ?

Then there's still the piracy issue with pirated banks, DAWs etc that someone reflect that, even though I'm ill-at-ease with it and avoid it at any cost (no pun intended) and that was massive even during my teenage years... And even about marketing, some 'loids have been being promoted in a way that targeted primarily professional musicians or niche genres that are miles away from your daily moe standards (hello the Operaloids and the V5 Standard voices) ; implied not necessarily teens and children

Regarding the "it's not for adults" ok but then explain me why I see people twice my age still enjoying video games of their childhood/early adulthood? Comics? Hyping on Pokémon after all these years? Or collecting any possible merch from Sailor Moon? Or even see adults probably having rushed like crazy to catch the last One Piece book and run to the nearest theatre that broadcasted the 1,000th episode of the anime? Moreover, there are anime and cartoons targeted at adults (PGS or even one I've heard about recently because I've listened to an utau cover of a song related to that show, Hazbin Hotel) and honestly, if cartoons were a children thing, then there'd be no "adults only" type of anime/cartoon creations...
I'd also add that even among "kids" cartoons you have some adults' world innuendoes because guess what, they were created by adults, and maybe some of the characters' cast are adults and deal with adult things... So that means such characters should be banned to appear in a """kids""" show ? or that children shouldn't watch these then? You may have some less or more subtle messages too in the background, related to war, identity, ecology... So it can lead to some double entendre and thus being as much enjoyed by children and adults

And then, staying onto the comparison with comics and cartoons topic, I know a lot of adults still enjoying comics because they either love that since forever or because the characters were their childhood friends, with said characters sometimes being even older than they are ; for example on our side in France and Belgium, you have Tintin, Spirou & Fantasio, Astérix, Lucky Luke and plenty of well-known characters that where created back in the (and without mentioning last summer when I visited Cheverny castle, that adults and teenagers may have been visiting the castle for its history and such, but you can be sure they also went there like the kids because it was the one having inspired Moulinsart Castle)

Vocaloids (and any vocal synth) songs are no exception to it since as you've pointed out, they can deal with different themes being from overly cute to deep thinking about human condition, what is right or wrong, isn't there an in-between the goodies and the baddies, very realistic issues from the real world (and I don't mention the risqué ones) and that once again, while you may have teenagers and adults being the oes to produce ; and age doesn't necessarily reflect the creation either as you have people in high school making content with pretty dark themes and on the other sides, some adults making very cute songs

Finally, I'd say if vocaloid was really a children's thing, then I truly wonder how come we've been up to V5 while it could have died out back in late V1/early V2 era and why UTAU users are still active -as well as why more and more vocal synth are created and competing with vocaloid? And then, why are we still here if we had to act like "real adults"... Honestly I may be childish in character but that'll never stop me from using the synths or listening to them, nor that I'll never be ashamed ever of reading/watchings the comics and cartoons of my childhood heroes Staying "young" in the head is worthier than any Botox //shot

 

[Blue Of Mind]

Speaking as someone who got into the fandom when she around 11 or 12 back in 2008, I'd say Vocaloid initially attracts kids and teens because of the cute and cool avatars, only for them to stick around for the songs and the fan content. I can still remember my initial reaction to Miku basically consisting of, "Who is she? She's so cute!" ^^;

Recently, I've been examining all the Vocaloid songs I've found over the years, and it's interesting to see how my tastes have changed from my preteen years to my mid-twenties. Some things have stayed consistent (bring me all the trance!), some genres and styles I've kinda outgrown or enjoy as nostalgia pieces now (like all the early electropop using Miku, I.e. Livetune's stuff), and some genres have surprisingly increased in prominence in my adulthood, such as rock and metal. Vocaloid has survived the typical fandom life cycle of growing in popularity, reaching a peak, then dying out to a hardcore base because its nature means it's not up to one person, a group or a corporation to continue it - it's up to the fans to create new content. Hence why the fandom is still going into the 2020s. Trends and the culture surrounding Vocaloid have changed a lot since Miku exploded in popularity in 2007, but the fandom is still here. To me, that says a lot more than just dismissing the entire scene as a kiddy thing, because a lot of kid fandoms tend to die off quickly once said kids grow out of something (unless it's something like Pokemon, Disney or SpongeBob, which have enough endearing qualities to adults as well as kids to survive multiple decades).

 

[morrysillusion]

i also got into vocaloid around the same age as blue- 11-13 initially and then a pause and back into it at 16. in middle school (2010-12) anime was definitely becoming more known around people my age and its uniqueness attracted me (even a few years before i was vaguely aware of "anime" but didnt really get intoit). undoubtedly the years i became aware of vocaloid were some of the prime years of vocaloid music making and miku's popularity. i think obviously anime and vocaloid sorta thing attracted the pre-teens due to that- colorful, cute characters. and personally coming from the sort of "out cast" side of social life in school, me and many others like myself were undoubtedly attracted even more so to vocaloid because we were kinda already into those more niche interests. anime and in turn vocaloid due to the common art style, were 'weird' to like and i was also 'weird' lol.

even liking it from that age to now, i have definitely shifted in What i like and How i like it- and similarly i have always enjoy other thing people call "for kids" but in many ways isnt advirtized "for" kids... like a lot of animation. i know animation is a very common thing people love to just say is "for kids" when often times its never advirtized as such! for studios like cartoon network their entire thing up until their recent changes were just to have cartoons for the sake of being cartoons. a majority of their content was always considered "general audience" on a technical side i know for a fact, and they werent trying to make things for five year olds or something just because it was a cartoon. but people love to see animation in that light even when we get much more mature animation nowadays. and i see no difference with vocaloid-- even with the way Miku has been promoted into media never had they explicitly tried to aim it at kids, and even more so that makes sense when vocaloid as a whole is a community effort you cannot really control lol. miku wouldnt be what she is if it wasnt for what people came together to do with her- make music in the most freeing way possible.

i feel like people too often go for "its for adults only/kids only" as if things cant just be.... "general". vocaloid doesnt need to be for one or the other- there is media out there that caters to specific ages and thats all fine and well when theyre doing that on purpose- but vocaloid is often defined by a community because vocaloids arent specific targeted at anyone other than people who like music or what to make music. and you cant put an age range on such a general audience. in the end i dont think vocaloid can ever be "aimed" at a certain age unless a company specifically steps up and markets vocaloid to children. the only reason fans get younger and younger is because of exposure to the internet, and the colorful art and songs is surely what attracted me, but still doesnt define vocaloid as being "for kids"

 

[REDD]

as someone who joined the fandom at age 10.... yeah no.
As cool and diverse Vocaloid content is, I would NOT let a little kid roam around the Vocaloid side of YouTube unsupervised.
Definitely could've kept my innocence a little bit longer had I not seen... certain things lmao