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Unpopular Opinions

Beananium

Yapping Dingus
Oct 22, 2025
71
23
Like, maybe we should be thinking about why so many vocal synth characters are portrayed so young by their creators?
OH MY GOD YEAH. its so wild to me that luka is considered one of the older vocal synths just because she isn't a highschooler. the more extreme and inexcusable examples come from feminine vocals (in every language, but english vocals seem to be better about this), but even the male engloids are ridiculously young (i am a strong middle aged sweet ann + big al believer, its ridiculous they were retrospectively made to be in their 20's)

also i agree that its extremely horrifying that a common consensus among straight men is that attractiveness is amplified when the girl is younger and women need to fit a very rigid box to be seen as attractive. its especially scary that women need to be seen as attractive in the first place to be seen as human. this applies to fictional characters, too; its so common to see conservative men throw a fit everytime a big video game series's protagonist is a woman that isn't an idealized version of their type (or even just any black or not very skinny woman).

The main thing i think of in terms of is early Meiko portrayals, where she's seen as an unsympathetic old hag despite often being under 30. You have to respect everyone and be nice to them even if you aren't attracted to them. I wish others can respect women no matter what.
 
Feb 18, 2025
20
Many people treat Its one thing if the voicebank was voiced by an ACTUAL CHILD (Kaai Yuki, Oliver).
My hot take off this topic is I genuinely believe it's entirely unethical for minors to provide voices for a vocal synth. A child simply can't consent to their voice being made into a product like that, and esp as young as Yuki and Oliver's VP's were they had no way of understanding the potential consequences.

Personally, I don't want there to be any unethical synths so everyone can freely create without issue (fictional character age discourse aside, y'all figure that out yourselves).
 

kaede00582

New Fan
Jun 6, 2026
10
www.youtube.com
The main thing i think of in terms of is early Meiko portrayals, where she's seen as an unsympathetic old hag despite often being under 30. You have to respect everyone and be nice to them even if you aren't attracted to them.
This is really common in the VTuber space too. Any female VTuber who isn't a teen is referred to as a 'hag' and it's always rubbed me the wrong way. It implies adult women - even if they're only in their mid/late twenties - are ugly and undesirable, while underage teen girls are cute and attractive.
 

KeyThruZ

キー can do the PUNK ROCK!!!
Mar 10, 2025
27
kola borehole
Mine:

I'm not a huge Ghost fan, but I think people are really blowing the whole situation out of proportion. It's like we're back in the 1500s and hunting for witches.

Also, the whole "mocking 14 year old fans" thing, as a 14 year old, is really very funny. I'm willing to admit that a lot of fans my age that I know are incredibly annoying, and really don't give any care whatsoever about the technological aspect of vocal synths.

On the topic of young fans, I really hate how popular Triple Baka is with the fandom. It really brings out the ignorance of a lot of people. These are the people who are so obsessed with cancel culture and modern puritanism, yet show no interest in the creator of the song at all, therefore directly supporting a producer with a popular lolicon song who most likely is a pedophile himself. (He still has the song up on his channel and shows no shame regarding it.) I find it all very ironic, and even a bit humorous.

"Cancelling Gakupo:" Yes, Gackt has made some... statements. I honestly don't take any of it to heart though, considering how he acted with male band members in his early career with Malice Mizer. Even if you personally don't support him, the Vocaloid still isn't the person himself.
I am very uncomfortable discussing any serious allegations about him, so please don't bring it up. Thank you

I like Yohio's Vocaloid. Even though the visual design is rather basic and doesn't take very much inspiration from his original V-Kei style, I do like it. I wouldn't say that the hate is undeserved though, this is just my personal opinion.

(Sorry for any grammatical mistakes)
 

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Apr 8, 2018
406
???
On the topic of young fans, I really hate how popular Triple Baka is with the fandom. It really brings out the ignorance of a lot of people. These are the people who are so obsessed with cancel culture and modern puritanism, yet show no interest in the creator of the song at all, therefore directly supporting a producer with a popular lolicon song who most likely is a pedophile himself. (He still has the song up on his channel and shows no shame regarding it.) I find it all very ironic, and even a bit humorous.
Which song are you talking about? I've listened to a lot of LamazeP's stuff and none of it was like that.
 
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IO+

Resonance47
Apr 22, 2021
322
On the topic of young fans, I really hate how popular Triple Baka is with the fandom. It really brings out the ignorance of a lot of people. These are the people who are so obsessed with cancel culture and modern puritanism, yet show no interest in the creator of the song at all, therefore directly supporting a producer with a popular lolicon song who most likely is a pedophile himself. (He still has the song up on his channel and shows no shame regarding it.) I find it all very ironic, and even a bit humorous.
Not necessary and i see so many flawed in the argument.

Someone enjoys Triple Baka > therefore they support the producer > therefore they are supporting a lolicon song > therefore they may be supporting a pedophile.
Those are several separate claims, and each step needs evidence. Simply enjoying a song doesn't establish that the listener knows the producer's entire catalog, agrees with every other work they've made, or endorses the creator's personal views. And the claim that the producer is “most likely a pedophile himself” is particularly problematic and unrelated.

listen to a song by this producer doesn't mean they are supporting their other controversial work and therefore indirectly supporting their alleged personal behavior. If you wanted to say i "dislike this producer's work and don't want to support them.” That's a legitimate personal choice. But turning that into a conclusion about the character of everyone who happens to enjoy one of their songs is a completely different claim. What you are talking about isn't so far off from "witch hunt" either.

If someone enjoyed slipknot song this would mean slipknot fans enjoyed extreme violence or fans become mentally unstable? Obviously not.
It's a unpopular opinion threads but i think this claim is gone too far.
 

Bookworm2

Your friendly neighborhood Vocaloid nerd
Also, the whole "mocking 14 year old fans" thing, as a 14 year old, is really very funny. I'm willing to admit that a lot of fans my age that I know are incredibly annoying, and really don't give any care whatsoever about the technological aspect of vocal synths.
Yep. 100% agree. I remember being a young and new fan, and good lord getting into the tech aspect was hard and confusing, so I have some empathy, but like the basics aren't that hard. They're like... three PowerPoint slides of info, max.

I like Yohio's Vocaloid. Even though the visual design is rather basic and doesn't take very much inspiration from his original V-Kei style, I do like it. I wouldn't say that the hate is undeserved though, this is just my personal opinion.
Honestly, same. It is a little generic, but it's not that bad. Some are definitely worse.

As for my own unpopular opinion, the letter voicebanks don't actually need a character to be a "good voicebank", and similarly a letter voicebank doesn't need to be restricted to one design. Take Mo Xu for example. Her voice is beautiful and actually pretty unique, but due to the fact that she's a letter voicebank and one of the free voicebanks she often gets overlooked. And regarding letter character designs, not all Yi Xi songs have to use the Vimalion Project design. I've seen hate on songs that use an alternative design, but why?
 
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KeyThruZ

キー can do the PUNK ROCK!!!
Mar 10, 2025
27
kola borehole
@WyndReed @IO+
Premature Love Romance - LamazeP ft. Kaai Yuki, Otomachi Una, Rana, & Touhoku Kiritan

I never said I disliked his music. From an objective standpoint, his music is very cute and catchy; one of my favorite songs of his is "I Say Love." I do not engage in witch-hunting cancel culture. I was saying that I found it contradictory that people who dislike a particular producer will dig through all their old songs and social media posts to find any incriminating evidence against them to "cancel" them, yet when they have a song they like, they don't even seem to care.

I'm sorry if I poorly worded my first post, and I understand that my opinion may be invalid due to my age and limited understanding of social psychology and how the world works. You're completely free to ignore what I said and move on with your life if it caused you any distress or trouble
 
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KeyThruZ

キー can do the PUNK ROCK!!!
Mar 10, 2025
27
kola borehole
listen to a song by this producer doesn't mean they are supporting their other controversial work and therefore indirectly supporting their alleged personal behavior. If you wanted to say i "dislike this producer's work and don't want to support them.” That's a legitimate personal choice. But turning that into a conclusion about the character of everyone who happens to enjoy one of their songs is a completely different claim. What you are talking about isn't so far off from "witch hunt" either.
I wasn't meaning to attack any fans who liked the song innocently; that is completely fine. My post was just my opinion on the puriteens of the fandom.
 
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IO+

Resonance47
Apr 22, 2021
322
Ages are unrelated, unless Admins specifically limit it. So in this case everyone have free will to engaged in this forums or this specific "unpopular-opinions threads" but that doesn't mean you can make a provocative accusation and say. Oops...Anyway, you can move on with your life.

The fact that the thread is specifically called “unpopular opinions” doesn't mean “anything goes and nobody is allowed to question it.” Quite the opposite, really. The whole point of putting an opinion publicly into a discussion thread is that other people can say: “I disagree, and here's why your reasoning doesn't work.”
But if you post an opinion publicly on an unpopular-opinion thread, people are obviously going to criticize the reasoning behind it. “It's just my opinion” or "reframe it as merely an innocent opinion" doesn't shield the argument from examination.

Likewise
“my opinion may be invalid due to my age and limited understanding of social psychology and how the world works.”
That feels unnecessarily self-deprecating. There's no need to invoke age or “social psychology” at all. The relevant question is simply whether the argument is logically supported.

I'm not attacking you personally, I just think you made a serious accusation, and I think it went too far.
Like i said, age are irrelevant as long as it doesn't violate forums rule, and that's the beauty of this forums.

Also I don't owed any apology, please give it to LamazeP.
 

Beananium

Yapping Dingus
Oct 22, 2025
71
23
Its important to mention that a lot of the people mentioned in KeyThruZ post have said and done some horrible things that go unmentioned.

A huge reason why a lot of Vocaloid fans hate GHOST is because they had a publicized meltdown and was actively hostile to anyone who told them off for a racist statement they made, even if they did it politely. GACKT had made statements of actively supporting MAGA / Donald Trump. Yohio tweeted out vile, racist shit too.

To clarify, I hate call-out culture too. Spreading public "[X] is a vile person! Here are some serious allegations that could ruin their career!" posts off of personal issues and digital stalking instead of blocking them and moving on or even working with them privately to get clarification or confirmation about any misbehavior is something that makes me sick to my stomach. This is why I stuck to examples of bad things the parties above themselves did instead of allegations, even if they had solid proof (most of which are much more severe).

However, acknowledging someone's shitty actions isn't the same as purposely ruining their lives. The people who already know have made their decision of if they want to support them + their work or not.

To expand on what IO+ had already said, liking the work of producers and voice providers who have done something bad isn't an inherent support of their actions outside of that. Every example of people going "I like Yohioloid" shouldn't need a "I DON'T SUPPORT HIS VOICE PROVIDER. I AM NOT RACIST" disclaimer under it. Most reasonable people of any age understand this well. The "puriteens" who would hypothetically get mad at a "I like Yohioloid" statment would be because it's supplemented with "what his voice provider did is irrelevant to me".
 

Beananium

Yapping Dingus
Oct 22, 2025
71
23
As for my own unpopular opinion, the letter voicebanks don't actually need a character to be a "good voicebank", and similarly a letter voicebank doesn't need to be restricted to one design. Take Mo Xu for example. Her voice is beautiful and actually pretty unique, but due to the fact that she's a letter voicebank and one of the free voicebanks she often gets overlooked. And regarding letter character designs, not all Yi Xi songs have to use the Vimalion Project design. I've seen hate on songs that use an alternative design, but why?
YES! Since I'm more into character design + fan community aspect than the software specifically, I'll speak on that more.

The main non Yi-Xi example I think of in terms of fan designs eclipsing all others for a faceless Voicebank is Roro- hatahiro's VY2 design. It's a damn good design, but it being synonymous with VY2 is sort of frustrating to me, since I feel that having one defeates the purpose of VY2's core design. It just being a sword felt intentional, so the voice can be enjoyed on it's own merit rather than with a character + to imagine your own character instead.

I love it when faceless voicebank designs are unique across songs + fan art ^^
 

KeyThruZ

キー can do the PUNK ROCK!!!
Mar 10, 2025
27
kola borehole
The fact that the thread is specifically called “unpopular opinions” doesn't mean “anything goes and nobody is allowed to question it.” Quite the opposite, really. The whole point of putting an opinion publicly into a discussion thread is that other people can say: “I disagree, and here's why your reasoning doesn't work.”
But if you post an opinion publicly on an unpopular-opinion thread, people are obviously going to criticize the reasoning behind it. “It's just my opinion” or "reframe it as merely an innocent opinion" doesn't shield the argument from examination.
I never said no one was allowed to question it. I never expected everyone to agree with me.

Also I don't owed any apology, please give it to LamazeP.
Why do I owe an apology to LamazeP? The content he made is disgusting and romanticized. He's a largely popular producer, and I'm not sending any hate directly towards him anyway. If someone makes non-satirical pedophilic content, it only makes sense to assume they are a pedophile. While I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, it's blatantly obvious that he is a sexual deviant. I understand this doesn't automatically give me a free "be a dick" pass, but I was groomed and assaulted between the ages of 12 and 13, so I do, in fact, have a particular resentment towards these types of people.

A huge reason why a lot of Vocaloid fans hate GHOST is because they had a publicized meltdown and was actively hostile to anyone who told them off for a racist statement they made, even if they did it politely. GACKT had made statements of actively supporting MAGA / Donald Trump. Yohio tweeted out vile, racist shit too.
I don't like Ghost for these reasons. I was referring to those who harass and send death threats; I don't believe someone deserves to die for something such as that. As for Gackt, I was referring to his "people who don't like cars are queer" statement. (I find this really funny in particular, because I am queer and love cars.) For his "MAGA" statement, it's important to acknowledge what was actually said (Not saying you didn't.) His original tweet said he admired Trump's decisiveness and leadership, and wished for something like that in Japan. Even as someone who is actively anti-MAGA, he does have valid points, and I can see where he was coming from. He has also always had a strong anti-war stance, which I admire. I'm not going to defend Yohio, though. I hate him, he's gross.
 
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ArcSanity

Local Hikikomori
Oct 19, 2025
12
Why do I owe an apology to LamazeP? The content he made is disgusting and romanticized. He's a largely popular producer, and I'm not sending any hate directly towards him anyway. If someone makes non-satirical pedophilic content, it only makes sense to assume they are a pedophile. While I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, it's blatantly obvious that he is a sexual deviant. I understand this doesn't automatically give me a free "be a dick" pass, but I was groomed and assaulted between the ages of 12 and 13, so I do, in fact, have a particular resentment towards these types of people.
There is a massive difference between a real child and an anime girl, and I hope that as you grow older you learn to tell the difference. Words do in fact have meaning. I think the reason you were getting pushback on your opinion on LamazeP is cause you are jumping to conclusions and accusing someone of actual criminal behavior. What fiction someone is into isnt nessecarily a reflection of their real life attractions.

You can find LamazeP having a lolicon song gross and not support him for that. But a song doesnt indicate anything about if he's attracted to REAL kids or not. If there is proof of LamazeP being interested in or going after REAL LIFE KIDS, THEN thats a concern to be addressed. Otherwise you are contributing to the issue that you are complaining about in regards to cancel culture.

While I'm sorry you had to experience such horrific things as a child, that is no excuse to contribute to the long running, incredibly concerning culture of accusing people of crimes with no actual evidence over drawings. You can dislike a producer for the content they make, thats your choice, but that content doesnt automatically make them a predator.

--------
Now for an unpopular opinion.

I wish people mixed their vsynth songs a bit clearer. I personally like being able to HEAR the vsynth in the song. Ive gotten used to the general muffle of Vocaloid and can decipher it quite well, but making your vocals really muffled for the whole song doesnt help 😭

I wish people actually branched out beyond the popular synths and songs. Theres so many cool producers and voicebanks if you look just a little to the left. Theres a whole world out there beyond Flavor Foley and whatever trending song of the week it is.
 

lIlI

⚡
Staff member
Administrator
Apr 6, 2018
1,305
Kanru's walls
The prevalence of sexualised children in Japanese media has resulted in a lot of ethical debate online. I think a crucial part of this conversation that's often missing is its cultural context. This issue is complex so this post will be long.

This post will contain triggers relating to pedophilia, grooming, and the sexual abuse of women.

What's first important to understand, for Americans particularly, is that protection of young girls is not a universal nor long-held standard. In many countries around the world an adult having sex with someone who is under 18 remains legal and culturally accepted. This includes many developed, first world nations.

In the UK, I live in a bizarre dichotomy where sexual images of under 18s are classed as child porn, but my government still allows adults to have sex with 16 year olds. This is despite campaigns to have the age of consent raised in response to the very large number of reports of teenage girls feeling groomed and abused by adult men. (Note: most campaigners do of course acknowledge and advocate for the fact that abuse can occur between any genders.)

In Japan the age of consent was 13 until 2023. This was raised to 16 in response to significant campaigns from young women in Japan asking for legal protection from an extremely widespread issue of sexual abuse from adults.

The recency of this change means that the cultural acceptance of pedophilia in Japan is still high. "Pin-up" style catalogues featuring photographs of real children are still widely distributed, and people can identify themselves as being sexually attracted to children without always facing significant social pushback, particularly in otaku circles. A vocal synth-relevant example would be the Vtuber and Voisona UI, who has made "lolicon" content involving real young girls, and remains one of the most successful influencers and vocal synths of the modern era within the Japanese fanbase.

An anecdote: my friend reported a man taking upskirt photographs is young girls coming home from school while in Japan last year, and was unable to get a serious response from authorities. This corresponds with widespread criticism from Japanese feminists of the police still failing to take sexual misconduct seriously.

Long story short, pedophilia is far less taboo in Japan than it is in the US. This is naturally reflected, as all aspects of culture are, in their art and storytelling.

This brings us to our unpleasant cultural context. The reason you're more likely to see lolicon fanservice in an anime as opposed to American media is not because Japan has an enlightened sense of difference between fiction and reality: it is because in Japan, being attracted to young girls is more widely accepted. The state of CSAM in Japanese fiction is a reflection of their past and present real life cultural context. This is not exclusive to Japan.

This is still not to say that every Pixiv artist who identifies themselves as a lolicon has participated in real life child abuse. But it is to say that in Japan there is far less discourse about the difference between those two things, due to an overall reduced taboo. In Japanese-language otaku circles, you will notice that their logic has more in common with 'antis' than 'proshippers'. Meaning, they don't really distinguish between fiction and reality and will assume that if you identify as a lolicon, you are also attracted to real children; in the same way that you would generally assume someone who enjoys anime women is also attracted to real women. The difference is the ethical consensus on the morality of the act.

So it's important to note that in Japan, saying you're a lolicon does contain the implication that you are attracted to real children as well: the word 'lolicon' in its Japanese usage (derived from 'lolita complex') has never been specific only to illustrations. If you are from a culture where sexual acts with a minor are largely shrugged off, there is no reason to defend or debate sexualisation of minors in art.

The "it's just fiction" refrain is a Western argument constructed retroactively by apologists looking for a way to reconcile their values with the prevalence of sexualised children in Japanese media. The idea that 'lolicon' excludes real children is a Western addendum to its original definition.

This understanding is important for informing how we interpret pedophilia in Japanese art.

The first, is that while yes, Miku can be 18, if a Japanese depiction of a 16 year old doesn't look or sound older, they probably haven't been aged up. There isn't much cultural pushback against sexualising 16 year olds in Japan, so they do not have the same impetus to increase Miku's age as an American.

The second is that if a Japanese artist identifies themselves as a lolicon, that probably does include an attraction to real children, because the Japanese definition of the word does not distinguish between the two.

The third is that, while this does not prove that they have ever committed a sexual act with a real child, it is important to consider the possibility that they might not share our ethical perspective that this would be a terrible thing to do.

Fourth, the existence of this art is influenced by a reality of sexual abuse, and to entirely disconnect the two is to undermine the real life struggles people in Japan are currently facing.

And the final point is that no country is a monolith. While patriarchal culture has normalised the sexual abuse of children over many centuries, there are many Japanese people within that culture whose fight against it has continued to shift laws and perception over time.

Look back to English-language media from the 80s and 90s, and you will see fetishised schoolgirls galore, including many examples of underage celebrities being sexualised by media and press, and jokes about relationships with minors laughed off. One aspect I can say that younger generations may not appreciate is how swiftly we have changed, and how different things were.
 
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IO+

Resonance47
Apr 22, 2021
322
Why do I owe an apology to LamazeP? The content he made is disgusting and romanticized. He's a largely popular producer, and I'm not sending any hate directly towards him anyway. If someone makes non-satirical pedophilic content, it only makes sense to assume they are a pedophile. While I normally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, it's blatantly obvious that he is a sexual deviant. I understand this doesn't automatically give me a free "be a dick" pass, but I was groomed and assaulted between the ages of 12 and 13, so I do, in fact, have a particular resentment towards these types of people.
My original objection is not about nitpicking over wording. It's all about evidence about a piece of media > accusation about a real human being. And yes, I understand that you are not claiming your trauma gives you a “free be a dick pass.” That's good. I wasn't aware that trauma came with one, but I'm glad we've established that particular rule. Your trauma explains the intensity of your reaction and i do not take it lightly. But it does not establish the accusation. Logically, it doesn't change the evidentiary standard. In fact, if anything, the seriousness of the allegation makes being careful with evidence more important. You're making an allegation that can have extremely serious consequences, and it shouldn't be treated as something that becomes factual merely because the underlying content is disturbing.

Unfortunately, personal experience does not appear to come with a certificate authorizing us to identify other people as criminals without evidence. You say that because someone creates non-satirical pedophilic content, it “only makes sense” to assume they are a pedophile. That is certainly one way of approaching evidence. It does, however, have the unfortunate property of skipping the evidence entirely.

It simply isn't evidence of why your accusation is true. And that distinction is rather important when the accusation is that someone committed a serious crime.
Words do, indeed, have meanings. So do accusations. I make this very clear, I will take your trauma experience very seriously, same with accusations you make.
 

KeyThruZ

キー can do the PUNK ROCK!!!
Mar 10, 2025
27
kola borehole
@IO+ Is it OK if I ask, what about the song isn't pedophilic to you?

@ArcSanity While a drawing isn't directly harming real children, lolicon is still a drawing of a child. They are attracted to a child's body. Someone doesn't have to commit violence against a child to be a pedophile.

@lIlI You explained this perfectly; thank you so much.
 

IO+

Resonance47
Apr 22, 2021
322
@IO+ Is it OK if I ask, what about the song isn't pedophilic to you?
If you're asking whether I find the song's content disturbing, that's a matter of moral judgment and I'm perfectly capable of finding something disturbing or objectionable. But my original objection was never “the song isn't bad.” or "i love being lolicon" It was the leap from “this song contains disturbing sexual content involving fictional characters” to “therefore the person who made it is a pedophile.” Those are two different claims.

You can argue that the song is pedophilic, disgusting, exploitative, or whatever other description you think accurately applies to the work. None of those descriptions, by themselves, establish the creator's attraction to real children or prove that they have committed a crime.

So if the question is “what isn't pedophilic about the song?”, I don't think that addresses my argument. My argument is about what the song can actually establish about the person who created it. Because serious accusation need serious evidence. I have already explained this, you can go back and read them.
 
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