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Why the hate for Crypton?

Sep 21, 2019
1,401
So, I've seen a lot of people who hate on Crypton, or act elitist for not using a Crypton vocaloid, but... I really don't get the reason for the hate for CFM. I know some people think their vocals are low quality, but as someone who uses Rin/Len v4x and Miku v4x, I don't see the quality issues. Though, I've never used their older vocals for myself, so I can't vouch for their older ones. Also, I do understand people are irritated that put a lot of focus on Miku (as someone who prefers the Kagamines, I understand. Though, I still like Miku). I'm still fairly new Vocaloid compared to people who have been into it, so maybe I just haven't seen enough to understand...

I'd love to hear what you all have to say about this. ^^
 
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mobius017

Aspiring ∞ Creator
Apr 8, 2018
1,982
I tend to hang around here mostly, and we typically don't get into the kind of behaviors/discussions you're describing. I've seen that kind of discussion in other places, though.

For what it's worth, for as much around as I have been, I haven't commonly seen the CFM 'loids described as low-quality. I guess it might be a possibility for the older versions. But the impression I get is that, even if they don't all get equal time in the concerts, CFM takes care of their 6 synths, even going so far as to do sort of a backdoor update for Rin/Len (Yamaha required new software versions to be a new product, so they created a "new" version and mailed it to Rin/Len owners for free.) when they felt the initial versions weren't satisfactory. And, AFAIK, all 6 are moving to CFM's new engine together.

I don't know the context of the conversations you mentioned, but as one possible explanation, I'd suspect that low-quality is a description that should be thought of as having a very particular meaning. Maybe it means that the phoneme recordings were done under sub-par conditions. Maybe it means that the reclist was too small, so different sounds that are needed to sound smooth are missing. It shouldn't be anything in the software, since all Vocaloids should theoretically use the same engine....

What low-quality shouldn't mean is just general "didn't sound good to me." That's like saying that your favorite tomato sauce is Presto and Ragu is low-quality just because it doesn't suit your taste or meet your particular purpose. For example, if you're looking for a Vocaloid to speak native-sounding English, a CFM 'loid may not be for you, since English isn't the primary language for any of their VPs; even Luka, the member of the group whose English skills are most-lauded, requires a certain amount of care and tuning to do English well, IMO, because it's certainly possible to create a song where her English doesn't sound optimal. But difficulties with English shouldn't be a cause for a synth to be branded "low-quality," though I suspect that's one area where synths often catch a lot of flak.

Truth is, no synth by any company or on any engine is perfect at everything. They all have things they do well and things they do less-well or poorly. (For as much as any new synth or engine is often hailed as the best thing since sliced bread when it first comes out, after awhile of use people figure out that it has pluses and minuses, just like anything else.)

To get back to your other point, I think CFM's synths' popularity could have a lot to do with it, as well. It could also be that having a cute anime girl for a face or the voice types that many Cryptonloids represent don't appeal to some people--those things might not be ideal for particular uses, or may simply not appeal to some people.

Those are my somewhat rambling two cents, anyway.
 
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peaches2217

Give me Gackpoid AI or give me DEATH
Sep 11, 2019
1,930
26
Arklahoma
It does have a lot to do with "Ugh, they're popular so I'm gonna be EXTRA-critical of them!". I see it a loooooot on the Vocaloid wiki (which I typically avoid except to get basic information for that very reason). There ARE issues with the Crypton voicebanks, absolutely. But, like Mobius mentioned, all synths have issues. The hyperfocus on Crypton's issues is mostly due to them being the most popular and, therefore, the most well-known. It's a backlash, "It's mainstream so it can't possibly be that good" kind of mentality.
 

Kona

Avanna's #1 Fan
Apr 8, 2018
813
USA
I also agree, it’s the popularity thing. I see it every now and then in other places. It is the mindset, I think, of “Cryptonloids don’t deserve to be popular” essentially. I especially see it in a comparison situation, like why is Miku polular when X Vocaloid is way more HQ.

I would compare it very much to Pokemon for easiest understanding. There are lots of people that like Pokemon but “hate” Pikachu solely for being the mascot, and people tend to feel as if they are more “real fans” for not liking the “mainstream” character as their favorites, which for Vocaloid, that would be Miku and friends. It’s that strange mindset that you are cool or a better fan for preferring an unpopular one rather than the one that most people will recognize already and already gets all thjs attention.
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
699
I mostly saw anti-Crypton sentiment in the early days of the Western fandom (so give or take the entire V2 era). Mostly it was just hipsters trying to be cool by jumping on to a company like AHS and praising the hell out of their Vocaloids while bashing Crypton. I don't really see Crypton-bashing now, but that's because I don't check out the YouTube/Tumblr/Amino, etc. sides of the Vocaloid fandom. (If anything, I see a lot more Yamaha-bashing now because of V5.)
 

hamano

ミクさんマジ天使
Staff member
Moderator
Apr 8, 2018
1,791
31
mobile.twitter.com
I was going to write a long post, but as most of what I was about to say has already been said, I'll just leave out the repetition of those things.

Anyway, I haven't seen too much Crypton bashing recently, but it used to be more common back in the days. I like to think that the western community has grown up (mentally and physically, the western fandom isn't as teen prevalent as it used to be) and that childish behaviour is not so common nowadays. But I don't follow reddit/amino/whatnot, so I don't know what it's like on those communities.

I think the anti-Crypton mentality is mostly just immaturity. For the most part it's teenagers bashing Crypton and Cryptonloids for stopping their favourite from gaining popularity.
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
699
I like to think that the western community has grown up (mentally and physically, the western fandom isn't as teen prevalent as it used to be) and that childish behaviour is not so common nowadays. But I don't follow reddit/amino/whatnot, so I don't know what it's like on those communities.

I think the anti-Crypton mentality is mostly just immaturity. For the most part it's teenagers bashing Crypton and Cryptonloids for stopping their favourite from gaining popularity.
I definitely agree with the fandom maturing a lot over the last 10+ years, and I have noticed there are less kids and teens in the fandom than there used to be, and this is coming from someone who pretty much joined the fandom in 2008 when I was around 11 or 12.

But I must admit, I'm very glad the fandom has long moved past the childishness. I couldn't stomach it even when I was a teen.
 
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xuu

long suffering synth fan
Apr 8, 2018
671
23
UK
I thought it was 2012 for a moment. In any relatively mature community this literally never happens any more. The only times people usually speak negatively about Crypton (who are generally always regarded as one of the better companies) is when it comes to their actual voicebank development process and philosophy, where they're often reusing samples and in the case of Rin/Len English even splicing samples from other VBs in rather than recording in full, plus the fact their VBs are always ridiculously large compared to other similar ones. Other than that, the only people bashing Crypton are either uncultured in terms of awareness of the Vocaloid scene outside of Crypton/Internet/AHS or being contrarian for the sake of it honestly.
 

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