Hahaha I can see a sense in that, so I guess? I didn't know people had the same attachment to her as they do with Oliver (even if in a smaller scale).
Unpopular Opinions
- Thread starter TheStarPalace
- Start date
hmm i think it's a mix of what Pancake said about a young fanbase that really just likes the character of Oliver and doesn't really bother to learn the software, but also back in the day bc Oliver was the first V3 Engloid and was really the first Engloid to interest a larger crowd. A lot of Oliver's usage was from brand new producers who picked him up as a starter and didn't quite know how to use him (myself included lol). And as you know Oliver isn't an easy bank to work with much less as a starter, and brand new producers don't usually have the best idea of how to mix or anything when they jump in (at least mostly Oliver's fans anyway). While there are many new shiny Engloids that does Oliver's job even better than Oliver, Oliver is essentially the Miku of Engloids in that he is the most well known of the bunch
Unpopular opinions:
Even though I like their voices, Sonika and Piko aren't much of a loss. They've been replaced and were iffy quality to begin with.
Avanna is also basically the Miriam update.... I love both, but when they sing together I struggle to pick them out. Dex/Hio/Kaito/Al are all better versions of Leon.
(Lola, Ann, and Al, on the other hand, are very unique voices and a big loss, which is a shame. Prima and Tonio were unique but that just kinda made them hard to use/sell, so I could go either way.)
Also, I see people clamoring for various JP V3s to have an update and it's just like
Most of them don't need it, it will be about the same and cost more
Avanna and Maika could benefit from newer scripts, but JPloids... don't have those.
Even though I like their voices, Sonika and Piko aren't much of a loss. They've been replaced and were iffy quality to begin with.
Avanna is also basically the Miriam update.... I love both, but when they sing together I struggle to pick them out. Dex/Hio/Kaito/Al are all better versions of Leon.
(Lola, Ann, and Al, on the other hand, are very unique voices and a big loss, which is a shame. Prima and Tonio were unique but that just kinda made them hard to use/sell, so I could go either way.)
Also, I see people clamoring for various JP V3s to have an update and it's just like
Most of them don't need it, it will be about the same and cost more
Avanna and Maika could benefit from newer scripts, but JPloids... don't have those.
I never understood the obsession of the western fandom with Piko. He doesn't have many notable, original songs under his belt and he's largely ignored by a lot of Vocaloid-Ps since his release. His voice and design is okay-ish to me, but nothing outstanding to be honest.
Also, I don't mind if many western producers write exclusively about drepressive stuff. The only problem is that there are plenty of popular songs, whose lyrics sound like badly written creepy pasta stories with some disorders sprinkled all over to be extra. That's where the bad reputation comes from, I guess.
Most of this would be a non issue if the instrumentals wouldn't sound so samey and uninspired.
ps. sorry for my bad English...
Also, I don't mind if many western producers write exclusively about drepressive stuff. The only problem is that there are plenty of popular songs, whose lyrics sound like badly written creepy pasta stories with some disorders sprinkled all over to be extra. That's where the bad reputation comes from, I guess.
Most of this would be a non issue if the instrumentals wouldn't sound so samey and uninspired.
ps. sorry for my bad English...
I think a lot of vocaloids people love sound really boring (IA, Yukari, Gumi) but I also think there's nothing wrong with them sounding boring. I still like them. I still listen to them. I'd still probably buy their VBs if I had the extra disposable income. But I just don't think they're that interesting.
I think a lot of people in this fandom forget that a voice doesn't have to be unique to be good. Most singers in general don't have standout, unique voices- but they're still good singers. It's ok to have a boring voice.
I think a lot of people in this fandom forget that a voice doesn't have to be unique to be good. Most singers in general don't have standout, unique voices- but they're still good singers. It's ok to have a boring voice.
Is it okay if I write something big? I won't do it again, really.
I might tweak this post to make some things clearer, but at this point I thought about all this way too much.
Here's a complex, unpopular opinion: I think music is a really awesome and amazing thing that doesn't have to be deep and profound to be special to anyone, but there is such an overwhelming excess of absolutely meaningless music with vocaloid, and it sucks. And I feel like it could be much better, and it's just normal that it goes like this since the price of the product is the only limitation for anyone to get it, which means it has a vaaaast community of users. And low quality stuff can be found anywhere, in and outside of the voice synthesiser groups. But it's exactly because of that, the naivety in making music with such a cool and versatile and incredible tool, I feel like there is so much trash that sounds good. Like songs that you can consider that they are good, for many unique reasons. But the songs that really get to you are in much smaller number, the songs that makes you impressed that the human mind and heart are capable of really doing that and really getting somewhere. Not everything has to be world changing, but I just feel like there is so much emptiness inside vocaloid music and it's because this awesome instrument gets used like whatever. It's different for people going "whatever" with a guitar, because vocaloid uses voices and builds an identity over itself because of that. It's a very personal element of music. Art challenges you and not everyone is an artist. I feel like it gets really obvious with vocaloid usage because anyone gets a singer and full autonomy.
On that same line of thought, I think the excessive anime imagery has turned vocaloid into something else entirely. I know it sounds obvious when you put it like that, but hear me out. There's nothing wrong with modeling designs with anime styles. Vocaloid is a big thing in Japan, and the japanese culture is incomparably influential over it, so it just makes sense. But the anime culture got carried into it and it changed things in a way that's harmful and ridiculous in my opinion. Identities are important to building a relevance for both the software and specially the vocalists, but the way things have turned are annoying and boring. It's the difference between Miku and Miriam. (Leon and Lola are the other extreme of being totally void of identity & it didn't quite help them. And Meiko and Kaito's "this isn't a mascot!" back in V1s was a honourable attempt but nonetheless funny to think about) I think companies supporting the building of vocaloid personalities are really overwhelming. There is a difference between encouraging creativity and doing what they have been doing. Like the cryptons are virtual celebrities, and folks like the chinese vocaloids are characters of their own, and folks like Tone Rion and Aoki Lapis have information about them of a backstory or a character introduction that gets in their way, in my opinion.
This is actually something probably even small and easy to ignore, but it shows in how the songs get done so it bothers me.
This is actually something probably even small and easy to ignore, but it shows in how the songs get done so it bothers me.
I might tweak this post to make some things clearer, but at this point I thought about all this way too much.
I don't hate Piko, as it took awhile for me to warm up to him. I don't mind him not being updated, I say Fukase can take his place easily.
You can still appreciate the real Piko and his songs, just the same.
The reason i want Utatane piko back is that he has no original songs, and if he gets an update, he may get attention and have people using him xD I love Piko artist form, so iT'd be nice :/ adding a certain characteristic to his voice is what we need and I think an update should do the trick: Piko has like two voices, so Utatane Piko could have "male" and "female" form if u know what I mean. His voice could also get more defined, and we'd get a good vocaloid, it's kinda sad how much forgotten he is
I believe it is largely because Sony Music went haywire trying to take down songs using him. They're usually the least negotiable regarding that and their lack of marketing and care for Piko showed. I think people really liked him because of his voicer and the fact that he was more androgynous than previous Vocaloids.
To me, sony music, avex trax and pony canyon are like....RIAA-tier of copyright evil...Very hard to let loose with these companies that care more about their IPs than that of their artists' capabilities.
I agree with a lot of what you have said, see in spoilers below.Is it okay if I write something big? I won't do it again, really.
Here's a complex, unpopular opinion: I think music is a really awesome and amazing thing that doesn't have to be deep and profound to be special to anyone, but there is such an overwhelming excess of absolutely meaningless music with vocaloid, and it sucks. And I feel like it could be much better, and it's just normal that it goes like this since the price of the product is the only limitation for anyone to get it, which means it has a vaaaast community of users. And low quality stuff can be found anywhere, in and outside of the voice synthesiser groups. But it's exactly because of that, the naivety in making music with such a cool and versatile and incredible tool, I feel like there is so much trash that sounds good. Like songs that you can consider that they are good, for many unique reasons. But the songs that really get to you are in much smaller number, the songs that makes you impressed that the human mind and heart are capable of really doing that and really getting somewhere. Not everything has to be world changing, but I just feel like there is so much emptiness inside vocaloid music and it's because this awesome instrument gets used like whatever. It's different for people going "whatever" with a guitar, because vocaloid uses voices and builds an identity over itself because of that. It's a very personal element of music. Art challenges you and not everyone is an artist. I feel like it gets really obvious with vocaloid usage because anyone gets a singer and full autonomy.
On that same line of thought, I think the excessive anime imagery has turned vocaloid into something else entirely. I know it sounds obvious when you put it like that, but hear me out. There's nothing wrong with modeling designs with anime styles. Vocaloid is a big thing in Japan, and the japanese culture is incomparably influential over it, so it just makes sense. But the anime culture got carried into it and it changed things in a way that's harmful and ridiculous in my opinion. Identities are important to building a relevance for both the software and specially the vocalists, but the way things have turned are annoying and boring. It's the difference between Miku and Miriam. (Leon and Lola are the other extreme of being totally void of identity & it didn't quite help them. And Meiko and Kaito's "this isn't a mascot!" back in V1s was a honourable attempt but nonetheless funny to think about) I think companies supporting the building of vocaloid personalities are really overwhelming. There is a difference between encouraging creativity and doing what they have been doing. Like the cryptons are virtual celebrities, and folks like the chinese vocaloids are characters of their own, and folks like Tone Rion and Aoki Lapis have information about them of a backstory or a character introduction that gets in their way, in my opinion.
This is actually something probably even small and easy to ignore, but it shows in how the songs get done so it bothers me.
I might tweak this post to make some things clearer, but at this point I thought about all this way too much.
TL;DR Vocaloid should be more innovative in terms of music, image and lyrical content, not just reduced to waifus/husbandos/stans of those Vocaloids and less than 5 popular music genres. It kind of does more harm in a way largely at times. But we also have to spread positive reinforcement and criticism to those making the content.
I am in total agreement, I feel like there needs to be more meaningful stuff out there? But at the same time it's hard for something meaningful to also sound /good/. To be quite honest, I haven't seen anything regarding protest songs and those are one of the more morally significant ones to me because those are the one protesting against the state of the world, the status quo and its inequalities. Just that a lot of protest songs vary from genre, like andean folk, hip hop and punk. It's not seen much in Vocaloid either or it's not translated like at all, I would happily take any suggestions for the ones that do exist. Usually since not many of those exist, the ones that do "tug my heartstrings" are the ones /succesfully/ dealing with mental illness and loss of life. Those are the ones that make me have a lump in my throat. I just wish I can discipline myself from this depression side of mine and be able to create such things if I do see these lack of these songs and covers continue. We do need to bring more meaning into Vocaloid, I just think being multitalented and discliplined is the hardest part of all. And perhaps there needs to be more unity in the sense of collaboration.
I actually find this sense of personal identity in Vocaloid characters to be a constant prevalent issue in the community. There are some people who like the "moe anime" style. There are some people who hate it. And then there's me who wishes to criticize its unseperable quality and correlation between "anime avi" and Vocaloid with maybe more variety of styles while accepting the good qualities of those that do already have an "anime style." Guess who I get lumped in with? The "haters" because of fanboys mainly who cannot distinguish hate vs criticism. We've all seen it with the Bruno and Clara fiasco, we've all seen it with the Americans who pursued to bash the artwork of the Mikuexpo 2016 tour. I ask myself, has anything good come out of this? I understand being affectionate over a Vocaloid, but to straight up bashing other people who have a different justification over their preferred Vocaloids or suggestions is straight up wrong to me. I have mentioned this before, but there are straight up people policing the styles of which some hobbyist artists have drawn their favorite Vocaloid, whether it be due to different art styles, minor changes such as hair and skin made to the character. Remember this is all fanon and it's a given most Vocaloids come with an empty blank state. The ask blogs were a good example of this as well as tumblr and amino picture posts taken out of context.
It doesn't help that a lot of these attitudes are amplified over time. Also, a lot of this also comes from journalism which sensationalizes the hell out of Vocaloid (seeing as it was popularized being a Japanese thing and sadly orientalist and sensationlist articles about Japanese things come with the territory), especially when there is a concert tour. That's why certain people see vocaloid as anime avis and nothing else or a hologram and nothing else.
Since Vocaloid is a worldwide phenomenon due to foreign voicebanks and foreign creators as well, it needs to be displayed more as such I think. It's kind of ridiculous that (even though I love Maika and her artist) Maika had to adapt to such changes after what happened with Bruno and Clara and same with Alys and Leora. They are respectively Spaniard and French, I feel like there should be something more "uniquely cultural" (without resorting to stereotypes) to them instead of just you know following the Miku formula/mecha musume formula/futuristic attire formula. Same with their music, we should maybe inspire more people to try out different genres for them at times.
I am indeed thankful that different interpretations have sprung up of the new 4 Vocaloid5 banks that Yamaha released, even if the 3D avis were very rushed. This is some progress that has been 10 years in the making. I have seen many voca-centered artists evolve their style from generic 2000s era VN style to something more personalized and it has been an amazing journey to see them improve like that. Imagine, back then when everybody tried to emulate KEI's style and used deviantart pixel bases haha. I just want there to be more of that, more positive reinforcement and a change of perspective of how we see our favorite Vocaloids. This is a message to the consumers and fans who consume this content. Please be respectful of these artists, see them as people first and be patient whether it be about whether when a person publishes their art or posts a song.
I also believe there needs to be more of a feedback culture with more of these Vocaloid companies. That goes more into marketing, and I would enjoy more of a perspective from someone who has studied that, especially with all these presumptions floating around, yes even I have presumed things.
I actually find this sense of personal identity in Vocaloid characters to be a constant prevalent issue in the community. There are some people who like the "moe anime" style. There are some people who hate it. And then there's me who wishes to criticize its unseperable quality and correlation between "anime avi" and Vocaloid with maybe more variety of styles while accepting the good qualities of those that do already have an "anime style." Guess who I get lumped in with? The "haters" because of fanboys mainly who cannot distinguish hate vs criticism. We've all seen it with the Bruno and Clara fiasco, we've all seen it with the Americans who pursued to bash the artwork of the Mikuexpo 2016 tour. I ask myself, has anything good come out of this? I understand being affectionate over a Vocaloid, but to straight up bashing other people who have a different justification over their preferred Vocaloids or suggestions is straight up wrong to me. I have mentioned this before, but there are straight up people policing the styles of which some hobbyist artists have drawn their favorite Vocaloid, whether it be due to different art styles, minor changes such as hair and skin made to the character. Remember this is all fanon and it's a given most Vocaloids come with an empty blank state. The ask blogs were a good example of this as well as tumblr and amino picture posts taken out of context.
It doesn't help that a lot of these attitudes are amplified over time. Also, a lot of this also comes from journalism which sensationalizes the hell out of Vocaloid (seeing as it was popularized being a Japanese thing and sadly orientalist and sensationlist articles about Japanese things come with the territory), especially when there is a concert tour. That's why certain people see vocaloid as anime avis and nothing else or a hologram and nothing else.
Since Vocaloid is a worldwide phenomenon due to foreign voicebanks and foreign creators as well, it needs to be displayed more as such I think. It's kind of ridiculous that (even though I love Maika and her artist) Maika had to adapt to such changes after what happened with Bruno and Clara and same with Alys and Leora. They are respectively Spaniard and French, I feel like there should be something more "uniquely cultural" (without resorting to stereotypes) to them instead of just you know following the Miku formula/mecha musume formula/futuristic attire formula. Same with their music, we should maybe inspire more people to try out different genres for them at times.
I am indeed thankful that different interpretations have sprung up of the new 4 Vocaloid5 banks that Yamaha released, even if the 3D avis were very rushed. This is some progress that has been 10 years in the making. I have seen many voca-centered artists evolve their style from generic 2000s era VN style to something more personalized and it has been an amazing journey to see them improve like that. Imagine, back then when everybody tried to emulate KEI's style and used deviantart pixel bases haha. I just want there to be more of that, more positive reinforcement and a change of perspective of how we see our favorite Vocaloids. This is a message to the consumers and fans who consume this content. Please be respectful of these artists, see them as people first and be patient whether it be about whether when a person publishes their art or posts a song.
I also believe there needs to be more of a feedback culture with more of these Vocaloid companies. That goes more into marketing, and I would enjoy more of a perspective from someone who has studied that, especially with all these presumptions floating around, yes even I have presumed things.
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I think the biggest hurdle for an update is getting Sony to care and coming back to the Vocaloid scene. Sony had some really baffling sales expectation for Piko during the V2 Era... like selling as many units as Miku did (20.000+ units alone during her first year). Violethaze perfectly explained why many producers gave Piko the cold shoulder in first place.
Gumi was actually somewhat dislike and ignored by the japanese and western fandom during her first release until Deco*27 used her and gave her two mega hits. After that she became the second most popular and used Vocaloid to this date. This is what Piko needs and for people to buy him in droves (especially the japanese side) to make Sony consider an update for him.
...and due to his questionable quality, it's not happening. (While a lot of the V2s weren't great, Piko was directly competing against the Appends, the VYs, and Iroha, who were absolutely the best of the bunch.)
Most of my fav vocaloids were late V3s. (anon/kanon, Zunko, Avanna, kokone, Ling, Yohioloid). I think mid-V3 was the really weak era.
Also Shanghai Wangcheng is a trashfire and I wouldn't buy their products under any circumstances.
EDIT to avoid double post: "A Teacher, Detained" isn't a good demo for flower, it would be a better song for pretty much any other vocal.
Honestly, as time goes by I like flower less....
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I don't have a clue about the Chinese Vocaloid side. Can you tell me what's so bad about Shanghai Wangcheng? I'm just curious. Haha.
Another unpopular opinion:
I like Luka V4X and Evec to be honest. Sure it's wonky but has potential. Kinda sad that Miku, Rin and Len had less opinions.
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I really like EVEC too, I use it almost all the time. It's a shame no one uses it much... It's a really useful feature imo.
Shanghai Wangcheng is ran by the same guy who used to run VSinger, you know, the guy who almost killed all the Chinese vocaloids by spending the money on.........non vocaloid things. Plus, I've heard they used dubious business practices, and for some holiday or another, they released a joke announcement about a company president vocal, which had a joke manga, which featured him (a 40+ dude) hitting on Xin Hua (a teenage girl). Ick. I just hope gynoid finds another distributer.
On a less negative opinion, the following producers deserve waaaay more recognition:
-DATEKEN
-marasy
-nekobolo
On a less negative opinion, the following producers deserve waaaay more recognition:
-DATEKEN
-marasy
-nekobolo
I don't care how nice the interface is, CeVIO sounds gross. Sasara and ONE work decently with the engine noise but I can't listen to anyone else.
Eleanor sounds very clear at the cost of sounding extremely autotuned. she's like Cyva Sweet or something.
I like Big Al unironically, don't know if that counts
EDIT DISCLAIMER: I don't dislike Eleanor at all, actually like her.
I like Big Al unironically, don't know if that counts
EDIT DISCLAIMER: I don't dislike Eleanor at all, actually like her.
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I'm really not a fan of IA english. I liked her a bit at first but the more and more I listened to her the more I was distracted by the Cevio engine noise. I also don't find her that understandable.
i personally don't usually find understandability a major factor in how much i enjoy listening to a vocal but,,
hoo boy she sometimes has sonika-tier lack of enunciation and she's like really muffled
that and the engine noise just kills her for me
I still don't understand why IA English was released to CeVIO rather than VOCALOID, though I do think the muffled pronunciation can be fixed. The engine noise in CeVIO doesn't help IA English at all though, and I think it causes most of the muffle-ness(?) in the first place.