VOCALOID VOCALOID6

[morrysillusion]

seeing them put out another demo has me worried they wont be facing reprecussion from Yamaha for that first demo which honestly would leave a really bad impression on me from Yamaha so... maybe they're dealing with it behind the scenes still... the original demo got deleted too iirc. and this demo being real, i had to go listen to the clip in that one tweet from earlier to recall the old demo and it is SO different its wild. i know vocaloid 6 hasnt sounded the best but having the comparison of this one to what was a cover of a Synth V voice makes it even more apparent how different they are

also i think they technically posted April 2nd in japan, so i wouldnt be concerned about it being a prank. (whether or not thats a good thing lol...)

 

[Chuchu]

seeing them put out another demo has me worried they wont be facing reprecussion from Yamaha for that first demo which honestly would leave a really bad impression on me from Yamaha so... maybe they're dealing with it behind the scenes still... the original demo got deleted too iirc. and this demo being real, i had to go listen to the clip in that one tweet from earlier to recall the old demo and it is SO different its wild. i know vocaloid 6 hasnt sounded the best but having the comparison of this one to what was a cover of a Synth V voice makes it even more apparent how different they are

also i think they technically posted April 2nd in japan, so i wouldnt be concerned about it being a prank. (whether or not thats a good thing lol...)

From what I gathered is that the controversy mostly happened on the western side of the synth fandom and in Japan the majority didn't even know that it happened. There is also a language barrier to be considered and I don't think anyone contacted Yamaha about that either.

 

[morrysillusion]

From what I gathered is that the controversy mostly happened on the western side of the synth fandom and in Japan the majority didn't even know that it happened. There is also a language barrier to be considered and I don't think anyone contacted Yamaha about that either.

well honestly, the fact this happened with the official account for Rowen, this wasnt like off to the side on some personal account? not to say it couldnt have slipped past anyone and that it totally should be more widely recognized, but this was with official demos, on the official accounts, all tweets relating to it also being on said account, which is a quite a good amount of exposure. some of this its making me think that things posting the demos arent approved by Yamaha at all which technically wouldnt surprise me, but if this is the case i think it shows how bad of a thing that is to do lol.

and on the topic of people probably not contacting yamaha.... i decided to send an email just now, so we'll see if they respond to me lol

 

[Chuchu]

well honestly, the fact this happened with the official account for Rowen, this wasnt like off to the side on some personal account? not to say it couldnt have slipped past anyone and that it totally should be more widely recognized, but this was with official demos, on the official accounts, all tweets relating to it also being on said account, which is a quite a good amount of exposure. some of this its making me think that things posting the demos arent approved by Yamaha at all which technically wouldnt surprise me, but if this is the case i think it shows how bad of a thing that is to do lol.

and on the topic of people probably not contacting yamaha.... i decided to send an email just now, so we'll see if they respond to me lol

You have to consider that the official Rowen account only replied to the demo controversy in maybe two tweets in English and afterwards kept quiet about it. They also post and retweet a ton of stuff regularly so it's no wonder that it got buried, and you wouldn't know that the demo got deleted if you don't go out of your way to listen to it again.

Sure, some Japanese fans were confused why the demo was deleted after a day, but it was such a non-issue without the right context that many moved on. You either have to follow a user that talked about the controversy on the western side or actively search the Vocaloid/Rowen tag to stumble upon some English tweet, and then understand the language good enough or use a shoddy Google translation.

Also, why would Yamaha or Techno-Speech and Dreamtonics in that matter go out of their way to pre-approved demos from third parties if they don't have a marketing deal with them? The only thing they would asked for is some raw samples of the voicebank for their store front and that's it. It's on the third party to be truthful about their product or risked their reputation if they get caught.

The only thing I can see Yamaha do is keep the money from the development and licensing fee and never work with Rowen again or if it's really severe just cancel the product outright due to breach of contract.

 

[morrysillusion]

You have to consider that the official Rowen account only replied to the demo controversy in maybe two tweets in English and afterwards kept quiet about it. They also post and retweet a ton of stuff regularly so it's no wonder that it got buried, and you wouldn't know that the demo got deleted if you don't go out of your way to listen to it again.

Sure, some Japanese fans were confused why the demo was deleted after a day, but it was such a non-issue without the right context that many moved on. You either have to follow a user that talked about the controversy on the western side or actively search the Vocaloid/Rowen tag to stumble upon some English tweet, and then understand the language good enough or use a shoddy Google translation.

Also, why would Yamaha or Techno-Speech and Dreamtonics in that matter go out of their way to pre-approved demos from third parties if they don't have a marketing deal with them? The only thing they would asked for is some raw samples of the voicebank for their store front and that's it. It's on the third party to be truthful about their product or risked their reputation if they get caught.

The only thing I can see Yamaha do is keep the money from the development and licensing fee and never work with Rowen again or if it's really severe just cancel the product outright due to breach of contract.

it is something i totally understand as well, in the topic of the responses from the account not being as easily witnessed, even more so with how twitter hides "replies" in a weird way which is a shame. and on that, it does make me wonder if anyone said anything to companies lol... i think that would actually cause more discussion from our side if we people pushed to email yamaha or something. i feel like there is a lot of talk and no action when "drama" happens-- not to say something can come of this at all legally or whatever but fans bugging yamaha and reaching out in this situation seemed like a good idea... even if they were to just reply "nah we dont care" lol actions are always worth doing even if nothing comes of it

and yeah i did greatly suspect there not being any watch over demos and whatnot from a company like yamaha etc '(i cannot confirm that unless they said so but it is easy to assume), more that assuming that is the case, i think this instance does kinda show what problems that can cause. i think even if this situation didnt escape containment very much its still to me an important "what if this happened again and its worse". because it certainly can leave a poor impression on the company. over all the community is so so specific of a niche information on discourse/dramas/etc just dont get out much anyways... a unique problem, because we will undoubetly have people casually buying with no awareness. thats just how it ends up... (and should be clear i am agreeing with you on many points, i dont want my response to seem defensive or aggresive just bc i decided on replying lol)

 

[Chuchu]

it is something i totally understand as well, in the topic of the responses from the account not being as easily witnessed, even more so with how twitter hides "replies" in a weird way which is a shame. and on that, it does make me wonder if anyone said anything to companies lol... i think that would actually cause more discussion from our side if we people pushed to email yamaha or something. i feel like there is a lot of talk and no action when "drama" happens-- not to say something can come of this at all legally or whatever but fans bugging yamaha and reaching out in this situation seemed like a good idea... even if they were to just reply "nah we dont care" lol actions are always worth doing even if nothing comes of it

and yeah i did greatly suspect there not being any watch over demos and whatnot from a company like yamaha etc '(i cannot confirm that unless they said so but it is easy to assume), more that assuming that is the case, i think this instance does kinda show what problems that can cause. i think even if this situation didnt escape containment very much its still to me an important "what if this happened again and its worse". because it certainly can leave a poor impression on the company. over all the community is so so specific of a niche information on discourse/dramas/etc just dont get out much anyways... a unique problem, because we will undoubetly have people casually buying with no awareness. thats just how it ends up... (and should be clear i am agreeing with you on many points, i dont want my response to seem defensive or aggresive just bc i decided on replying lol)

Don't worry, your tone doesn't come off as aggressive or defensive =) I don't think Yamaha will take much of a reputational hit because most people, which already is a small pool contained on Twitter, recognize that the fault lies on the Rowen company for misleading potential customers. It's just the usual 'how-shit Vocaloid 6 is' drivel that gets mixed into the conversation regarding the Rowen situation. If they didn't blame Yamaha for the Seeu fiasco before then it's laughable to do it now. It is a good idea to contact Yamaha because the conduct of their collaborator breaches their tos and there's documented proof, too. And yeah, the corporate answer would be: 'Thank you for making us aware of the situation. we will investigate the matter but please be aware that we might not be able to give you an answer due to legalities.'

 

[morrysillusion]

thinking of yamaha and the email i sent. i did just get a reply from them lol!

i basically sent a email saying 'hey i saw this happen and it seemed bad for a company to do, are you guys aware?'

reply was:

Thank you for contacting Yamaha's VOCALOID Products Customer Center.

This issue has already been acknowledged by our company, and we have already
lodged a protest with MUGEN Co., Ltd and settled the matter.

We will not issue any statement to users regarding this matter from our side.
We kindly ask for your understanding.

so not far off from the assumed response. they are aware of the issue and have taken some kind of action. unlikely we will hear more specifics from them. did not expect anything more from them than this but! sure is worth emailing even if it wasnt much. probably the last post i will make on this now cuz i dont wanna fill up the general thread with this topic lmao :'D

 

[Mika]

I'm surprised that Yamaha gave a response with actual infos, I expected it to be even more vague. But good to know that they seem to have done something.

 

[morrysillusion]

I'm surprised that Yamaha gave a response with actual infos, I expected it to be even more vague. But good to know that they seem to have done something.

luckily id say theyre very good at responding! i emailed the some ages back about a bug in vocaloid 5 that they said was intentional (unable to use 64th notes or play them, for notebending, so loads of old files broke). and then they emailed me back months after to say it got fixed and changed it lol. theyre a decent company to reach out to.