Unpopular Opinions

[Beananium]

I don't like the common older early fandom portrayals of Meiko and Kaito; particularly when Meiko constantly has Kaito on a controlling leash because she's the responsible one and Kaito is the stupid one, with this dislike being more severe in terms of shipping the two together and especially if they have the Kagamine's in a more adoptive role. Like... I do not see how that dynamic can have any romantic desire in it. It's still pretty common to this day in more comedic portrayals and it fails to get a laugh out of me at all now due to how overplayed and basic the whole bumbling father and bossy mother trope is :']

I think Meiko should be allowed to be a little silly and irresponsible too, and Kaito should be able to have his childish moments and still have agency and intelligence like the adult he's near-universally characterized as.

 

[Palamon]

My unpopular opinion:
Using AI for the MV or the instrumental isnt that bad

(Generative) Ai is stealing, period. And feeding off data without consent, raising ram prices, and guzzling a down of water/energy. And ai instrumentals don't even sound good.

So, I don't agree. And, that's all I'm going to say.

 

[PearlStarLight5]

And even if AI instrumentals did sound good, music isn't just about the lyrics.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

I don't like the common older early fandom portrayals of Meiko and Kaito; particularly when Meiko constantly has Kaito on a controlling leash because she's the responsible one and Kaito is the stupid one, with this dislike being more severe in terms of shipping the two together and especially if they have the Kagamine's in a more adoptive role. Like... I do not see how that dynamic can have any romantic desire in it. It's still pretty common to this day in more comedic portrayals and it fails to get a laugh out of me at all now due to how overplayed and basic the whole bumbling father and bossy mother trope is :']

I think Meiko should be allowed to be a little silly and irresponsible too, and Kaito should be able to have his childish moments and still have agency and intelligence like the adult he's near-universally characterized as.

Since Meiko is still characterised as the resident drunk, I always found my headcanon of Meiko being the bumbling, crazy mum and Kaito as the kind-hearted, yet down-to-earth and easily embarrassed dad to be far more amusing and subversive.

But on the whole, I don't see "stupid Kaito" portrayals as much compared to the V2 days, and it's the same with "pervert Kaito". I think the Western fandom in particular has really shifted on their views of Kaito since probably around the V3 era, when Kaito V3 came out. A long time ago, I talked about how the Kaito/Miku ship had really fallen out of popularity in the modern fandom, and someone pointed out to me that because Kaito's VP is much older now, fans today now see Kaito as much older than previously, which affected Kaito ships. I think something similar also happened with Kaito fan portrayals, because it's like the fandom quietly but collectively agreed at some point that Kaito must mature.

I find it interesting that the same thing hasn't really happened with Meiko as much, despite her VP also ageing. And nobody ages up Miku, Rin, Len and Luka to match their VPs because everyone likes to stick to their canon ages much of the time.

(Generative) Ai is stealing, period. And feeding off data without consent, raising ram prices, and guzzling a down of water/energy. And ai instrumentals don't even sound good.

So, I don't agree. And, that's all I'm going to say.

And even if AI instrumentals did sound good, music isn't just about the lyrics.

Have we already forgot about the CryDie/OKISO drama from a few months back?

 

[Heruru Meruru]

Here's mine then: I still love Bakaito and moeblob Kaito. That characterization is why I like him.

Also I prefer Kaito's V1 over his modern banks, the engine noise is part of his voice's charm and he sounds less froggy, for lack of better words. V1 Kaito can also sound vastly different depending on the producer whereas V3 Kaito always sounds the same.

 

[wrong_thyme]

to throw my hat in the ring:

• i like modern bakaito, where he's just a silly guy (/pos), but a lot of the early bakaito could come off as pretty meanspirited, and i don't like that
• 'abusive alcoholic for the laughs' meiko is trash tier characterisation
• v1 kaito is obviously superior to all other engines kaito

on another note, gakupo and luka often received similar characterizations in the gakuluka ships, and people seem to be reviving that but for gakugumi instead, and I Hate It™

 

[StrawbebbyPancakes]

I feel like the rise of people headcanoning Teto as chubby / fat is a prime example of how common fatphobia is in not only the Vocal Synth community, but in the English speaking fanbases for Japanese media in general.

100% agree with this. I'm a fat person and a big Vsynth/Japanese media fan, and I know the cast majority of characters won't look anything like me, I've accepted that.

But every damn time I see art of characters that's even just a little chubby it's either fetish art or making fun of it. And that's on top of the fact that these kinds of communities are gonna be casually fatphobic in general, so I'm never "safe."

I'm used to this at this point but man. It's such a blindspot for progressive communities (oh and don't get me started on ableism dear God)

...is this a safe space to say i think kei's art for the cv series is super ugly

i hate that muddy grey shading and weirdly solid, shiny hair sm

It's kinda wonky overall, but the only one that bothers me a whole lot is Luka. Especially anywhere her limbs overlap, it just feels amateurish.

Vsynth is the perfect term because it describes what these pieces of software are, but it doesn't describe them with a specific brand name.

I agree with every point you made, but there's one problem. When I go to conventions or events, even dedicated ones like Miku Expo or smaller local events, they will look at you like you spoke a whole other language if you say "vocal synth." Vocaloid is the word that everyone, new and old, already knows, and if you insist on not using it as an umbrella every convo with other fans requires you to explain what you mean. It impedes social interactions and makes you look like a stickler to others.

Speaking of which, IRL events in my vicinity tend to feel like stepping back in time, so many more people than you ever realize still live in the cryptonloids + gumi gakupo fandom era, it's genuinely fascinating. Gakupo especially, they're everywhere

 

[cafenurse]

Speaking of which, IRL events in my vicinity tend to feel like stepping back in time, so many more people than you ever realize still live in the cryptonloids + gumi gakupo fandom era, it's genuinely fascinating. Gakupo especially, they're everywhere

YES HAHA i started going to irl events last year and I noticed this. people go feral for gumi. I was given a staff choice medal for dressing up as gumi and the cosplay wasnt even good my wig was so botched. they just love the gums

 

[ArcSanity]

This might be a really hot take im sorry.

But I dont think character ages are as important as people make them out to be.

These voicebanks are instruments, and a majority of these voicebanks are voiced by ADULTS, with only a very tiny handful being voiced by actual children.

Many of the avatars attached to the voicebanks are in an anime style, and anime is notorious for its "vaguely youthful" looking characters. Many characters follow anime logic and look youthful. Even in school animes, many characters could EASILY be interpreted as adults.

My prime example of this? Haiyi. Her design could easily make both the average person on the street AND people entrenched in anime spaces to conclude that Haiyi is an adult. Haiyi's apparently 14 and I'm. Not seeing it. Or Haruno Sora. She looks like a TEACHER in her SynthV design (a teacher who's an idol). She has a more mature voice. Aint no way she's 17.

So I dont think character ages matter too much for vsynths. Many people treat vsynths as blank slates anyways. Its one thing if the voicebank was voiced by an ACTUAL CHILD (Kaai Yuki, Oliver). But MOST of these voicebanks are voiced by ADULTS.

"Waah Miku's 16" she's voiced by a GROWN ADULT WOMAN. She is a drawing thats voiced by an adult.

 

[Rylitah]

Or Haruno Sora. She looks like a TEACHER in her SynthV design (a teacher who's an idol). She has a more mature voice. Aint no way she's 17.

This one is a reference to her voice provider, who is very famous for saying she's 17 years old. Every year on her birthday, she turns 17 and that's her schtick. Opinions may vary on this as her "thing," but that's why Haruno Sora the character has that as her age. She's very obviously older, but will always say she's 17 as a nod to her VP doing that exact bit.

Just wanted to point that out as the reason for her specifically!

 

[Beananium]

I really dislike Kailen as a romantic pairing, even if I like them as any other type of duo.

Building off the previous "Vocaloid ages don't really matter" point, I do agree. There's nothing fundementally and inherently wrong with Kailen. I've seen a lot of older looking Len's, more in line with a 3rd year highschooler or even a collage aged adult you would see in an anime. And Kaito has always such a wide age portrayal range. He can easily pass for a highschooler with very few tweaks to his "canon" image. In written fanworks, they usually have about the same emotional maturity when written as a romantic pairing.

However, I also don't have any tolerance for shotacon boys love. And a lot of the time, Kailen fanart makes Len look like a pre-teen and Kaito look like the average buisnessman seme. Any sort of relationship and art like that had always made me extremely uncomfortable.

Even if I disregard that personal problem, Kailen... is sort of mid? It's always struck me as the ship that exists because they're the only two masculine Vocaloids among the CFM crew. They don't strike me as characters that would be romantically interested in eachother; being close friends and constantly annoying eachother in a playful manner, but either into other people or not caring for romance.

This doesn't affect my option for their voices as a duet at all though. Both erase or zero and Flyaway are fantastic songs even though they're both romantic queer repression duets.

 

[WacoWacko39]

In regards to post #2,430: I'm somewhat undecided on the subject, in the broad sense. Though I don't care for the argument that they're voiced by adults, thus they're adults: adults voice children all the time.

I wrote this with no a terrible amount of available time, I apologize if that reflects in the depth or width of my opinions here. That was just what jumped out to me first.

 

[ArcSanity]

In regards to post #2,430: I'm somewhat undecided on the subject, in the broad sense. Though I don't care for the argument that they're voiced by adults, thus they're adults: adults voice children all the time.

I mention that the voicebanks are voiced by adults as an explanation of why character age doesnt really matter. In general voice acting, adults voice children all the time. This is common especially for teenage boy characters because they cannot get an actual teenage boy to voice a shonen protagonist because the voice changes with puberty, something that teenagers go through. So typically with youthful male voices in anime, they get an adult woman to voice the character since a woman can consistently do a youthful tone.

I'm generally of the opinion that character ages dont matter In general because many animes and games feature characters that typically act like a regular adult or older teen and very much look like they could pass as older teen/young adult. But that is off topic.

and i think it matters drasticly less in vsynth spaces because these are instruments. Theyre singing robots. MOST voicebanks are voiced by adults. This community thrives off creativity. There IS no canon. Any lore or information companies give their characters are treated as suggestions. They are blank slates for people to be creative with. Character ages are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. They are anime characters slapped on a box for a midi singer. Yes, some character designs can fall into certain tropes. But that doesnt take away the fact that they are blank slates for users to be creative with. You can make Len be a 23 year old salaryman if you want. You can make Kaito a 17 year old heartthrob. It doesnt matter in the end.

The only exceptions to "do whatever" is the voicebanks like Kaai Yuki and Oliver, who are voiced with real children and typically have slightly stricter terms. It technically doesnt stop people from using them maliciously, but that is where community shunning is effective if the situation calls for it. While theres technically nothing stopping you from making Kaai Yuki 18, theres technically a software limitation with how much you can tweak the voice through parameters. Theres no reason to put Kaai Yuki in a raunchy song when theres plenty of other voicebanks with a soft, cute tone that you CAN put in there instead and be using the voice of an adult.

Sorry this was long, also I apologize if its worded weird im a bit sleepy

 

[Heruru Meruru]

It's worth noting that even in official media the ages are not set in stone. Crypton has official art of Miku drinking wine and working office jobs, inversely there's official art of Luka in school uniforms.

 

[MagicalMiku]

Characters age is a reference point, more important for artists drawing fanarts or official artworks. Then there are derivative works, depending on the context (there can be goods about work, school life, camping, ..), but again, artists need to have a reference point for age (and so body characteristics of that age). You can draw a younger or older character, but you still need to have a reference image in mind.
Body type, measures, height and weight and important too, especially when characters appear together on a stage or illustration and have different kind of outfits. Birthday too, very important among fans to celebrate together.
The age can be seen also as the "default voice type". You can tune as much as you want, but the baseline is that.

 

[sunnyp4rk]

and i think it matters drasticly less in vsynth spaces because these are instruments. Theyre singing robots. MOST voicebanks are voiced by adults. This community thrives off creativity. There IS no canon. Any lore or information companies give their characters are treated as suggestions. They are blank slates for people to be creative with. Character ages are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. They are anime characters slapped on a box for a midi singer. Yes, some character designs can fall into certain tropes. But that doesnt take away the fact that they are blank slates for users to be creative with. You can make Len be a 23 year old salaryman if you want. You can make Kaito a 17 year old heartthrob. It doesnt matter in the end.

A lot of people forget about the fact that the characters are basically just there for marketing purposes. If Miku didn't exist, would people care about her voice that much...? Debatable. I think you'd get people buying her for the youthful-ish tone, but I don't think they would have sold nearly as many copies of her V2 if it wasn't for the anime girl slapped onto the front.

Crypton should have never written down ages for these characters to begin with. Going back in time to aggressively shake whoever wrote down Miku's age to show them the discourse that exists now lol

 

[ArcSanity]

but again, artists need to have a reference point for age (and so body characteristics of that age). You can draw a younger or older character, but you still need to have a reference image in mind.

This could 100% just be me, but as an artist I've NEVER needed to know a character's age in order to draw them. I just draw them how the reference image has them. Which in the case of many anime styled designs, "vague youth". Even when drawing groups, all I really need is heights.

But I am very much an outlier who should not be counted.

I do agree though that the ages are more of a reference point. And that DOES actually tie in to them being less important than people think. People treat character ages as absolute law and will explode if somebody dares put Miku in a raunchy scenario because "Miku is 16 guys!!!"

Crypton should have never written down ages for these characters to begin with. Going back in time to aggressively shake whoever wrote down Miku's age to show them the discourse that exists now lol

I agree. I want to shake whoever wrote down ages for the Cryptonloids cause I swear if I have to see one more "Miku is 16" or "Len is 14 dont be weird"

 

[Tortoiseshel]

As far as I'm concerned, yes vocal synth ages are just suggestions, but you still gotta put in the work to make me believe that this version of them is actually older than their "official" age. Meltdown Rin? Yeah I'll buy that's an adult. Spice! Len? Sure, at least in the famous PV.

Also, at least on a case-by-case basis, I think "Who cares about the 'canon' age, there is no canon anyway! Do what you want forever!" is perfectly acceptable. But I think that's an incredibly naive and short-sighted view of the scene as a whole. Like, maybe we should be thinking about why so many vocal synth characters are portrayed so young by their creators? Honestly, this tumblr post expresses it better than I probably could.

 

[DefiantKitsune]

A bit ironically, disregarding the characters entirely, I don't like Kaito and Len as a duet. I think their voices clash too much and tend to bring out each others weakest traits while not accenting their better ones. (I'm also not a huge fan of either of them solo, though, so grain of salt with that.)

 

[wrong_thyme]

i concur with tortoiseshel. if you wanna put, say, the kagamines in a sus song, fine, but any pv artwork has to have them looking actually adult and not like their 14 year old official art

the unspoken problem with the "vocaloids don't REALLY have a canon age" defense is how many songs (and sometimes the companies themselves >.>) have characters who are EXPLICITLY portrayed as their canon under18 ages sexualised. or shipping, with adult x minor relationships

(and yeah, kailen just sucks as a duet. i think kaito's voice goes better with gakupo )