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VOCALOID Crypton new Miku NT ver.2, Miku V6 and Piapro Characters Super Pack

mobius017

Aspiring ∞ Creator
Apr 8, 2018
2,035
I might have completely misunderstood, but the way I read the email announcement from Presonus, it seemed like there was going to be some kind of maintenance plan that will bring the updates. So essentially, you have:
  1. Initial purchase of Studio One Pro, which is yours forever
  2. Maintenance plan thing, which is basically you paying on a recurring basis (e.g. annually) for software updates/new features. You can stop paying anytime and keep what you have, but you won't continue to get new stuff (until, I assume, you pay again and get access to the most current Studio One build).
  3. Optionally, your subscription to Presonus Sphere (that's still the name...right?), which gives you loops/plugins/etc. I'm not clear on how that would relate to the maintenance thing--I assume Sphere would include it.
 

AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
I might have completely misunderstood, but the way I read the email announcement from Presonus, it seemed like there was going to be some kind of maintenance plan that will bring the updates. So essentially, you have:
  1. Initial purchase of Studio One Pro, which is yours forever
  2. Maintenance plan thing, which is basically you paying on a recurring basis (e.g. annually) for software updates/new features. You can stop paying anytime and keep what you have, but you won't continue to get new stuff (until, I assume, you pay again and get access to the most current Studio One build).
  3. Optionally, your subscription to Presonus Sphere (that's still the name...right?), which gives you loops/plugins/etc. I'm not clear on how that would relate to the maintenance thing--I assume Sphere would include it.
Yeah, I love Studio One to death as a DAW but I don't like this system. FL Studio lets you pay once and get updates for life...I much prefer S1's workflow though
 
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mobius017

Aspiring ∞ Creator
Apr 8, 2018
2,035
Yeah, I love Studio One to death as a DAW but I don't like this system. FL Studio lets you pay once and get updates for life...I much prefer S1's workflow though
Every once in awhile, I think about switching DAWs, and FL is one of the ones I've had recommended. What's the difference between their workflows?

Though honestly, my only real complaint with Studio One is its nonstandard MIDI implementation, which means that it can't do MIDI routing that would support things like MIDI Shaper or Imaginando's Visual Synth. (There are workarounds, but I've not had much success with them.). By contrast, I've seen complaints that look a bit more serious about other DAWs I've looked into. Which honestly is probably going to be the case about ANY DAW you try researching, so at this point, I sort of figure it's most sensible to prefer the devil I know....

Still, I can't help but ask, because I see people preferring one DAW's workflow over another's, but they never elaborate on what that means.
 
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SeleDreams

Passionate Fan
Jul 31, 2019
195
23
Every once in awhile, I think about switching DAWs, and FL is one of the ones I've had recommended. What's the difference between their workflows?

Though honestly, my only real complaint with Studio One is its nonstandard MIDI implementation, which means that it can't do MIDI routing that would support things like MIDI Shaper or Imaginando's Visual Synth. (There are workarounds, but I've not had much success with them.). By contrast, I've seen complaints that look a bit more serious about other DAWs I've looked into. Which honestly is probably going to be the case about ANY DAW you try researching, so at this point, I sort of figure it's most sensible to prefer the devil I know....

Still, I can't help but ask, because I see people preferring one DAW's workflow over another's, but they never elaborate on what that means.
FL Studio has a completely different system to studio one.
Compared to studio one where one instrument track = midi notes for 1 instrument, in fl studio the tracks don't really mean anything, you place "patterns" on them.
And one pattern can contain notes for multiple instruments at once and even contain samples.

also compared to studio one where an instrument has a mixer channel assigned to it, on fl studio that's not the case, you manually set a mixer channel to each instrument and sample by ID.
FL Studio's system is basically very modular but it also means it's very easy to make things very messy if we're not comfortable with this workflow. meanwhile, studio one's workflow is more standard and predefined, but at least it's very intuitive and easy to use.
 

AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
Every once in awhile, I think about switching DAWs, and FL is one of the ones I've had recommended. What's the difference between their workflows?

Though honestly, my only real complaint with Studio One is its nonstandard MIDI implementation, which means that it can't do MIDI routing that would support things like MIDI Shaper or Imaginando's Visual Synth. (There are workarounds, but I've not had much success with them.). By contrast, I've seen complaints that look a bit more serious about other DAWs I've looked into. Which honestly is probably going to be the case about ANY DAW you try researching, so at this point, I sort of figure it's most sensible to prefer the devil I know....

Still, I can't help but ask, because I see people preferring one DAW's workflow over another's, but they never elaborate on what that means.
FL Studio always came across as more complicated to me, like there's a lot going on and it can be hard to wrap my head around it, from my experience using the trial (the mobile version is a lot simpler though)
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
728
FL Studio always came across as more complicated to me, like there's a lot going on and it can be hard to wrap my head around it, from my experience using the trial (the mobile version is a lot simpler though)
We had FL Studio in secondary school, and even when I was a teen, I thought it was too complicated for 11-16 year olds to use for Music lessons.
 

MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,728
Sapporo
Miku NT2 Early Access Beta will be available from October 23rd(●'◡'●)🎁🎈

official page:
The Early Access version is an early beta version of the new version of "Hatsune Miku NT" that is currently under development! It will be released free of charge to regular users of "Hatsune Miku NT"!

What is "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" currently under development?

"Hatsune Miku NT" is a singing synthesis software released on November 27, 2020 as a "Hatsune Miku package" that combines specially customized singing expression technology, voice library, software interface, and voice effector. The new version, "Hatsune Miku NT ( Ver.2)" , which is currently under development, will completely change the existing singing synthesis engine! Based on the concept of pursuing "Hatsune Miku-ness", we will adopt a newly developed original singing synthesis engine (in-house development code: M9) developed by Crypton and add new functions that allow for more free singing expression.

In addition, "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" will also be equipped with the newly developed "Piapro Studio - Automatic Control" function group to support creators' creative work. The vocal editor automatically adjusts consonant length, pitch curve, vibrato, etc. to suit the expression of the singing voice that the creator is aiming for. Creators can then freely add adjustments to make it easier to express their ideal singing voice.

In addition, at the special exhibition venue of the event "Hatsune Miku "Magical Mirai 2024" in OSAKA" to be held at INTEX Osaka from Saturday, October 12th to Monday, October 14th, 2024, "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" will be exhibited at the exhibition booth of the SONICWIRE team , which is responsible for Crypton's music business . If you are attending the event, you will be able to listen to demo songs and hear explanations from staff, so please stop by.

The major update version of "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" is scheduled to be released in the first half of 2025, and will be provided free of charge to regular users of "Hatsune Miku NT", just like the Early Access version . Please look forward to further updates! ( ๑•ω- ๑)-★
 
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Leon

AKA missy20201 (Elliot)
Apr 8, 2018
1,040
I don't know that I think this sounds any better than what we have now?? Maybe I need to hear actual tuning for a whole song instead of some "la la la"s and a bar of a song on its own. And is it just me, or was the audio almost skipping/looping on a couple of the quarter note "la"s at the beginning there? Also, I think the voice drive parts were... odd. Like old V4 growl style.

Some of the Miku snippets that we thought were NT 2.0 are so genuinely good that I don't want to be negative, but assuming NT 2.0 really is a huge step up, this video hasn't really put that forward imo.
 

AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
I don't know that I think this sounds any better than what we have now?? Maybe I need to hear actual tuning for a whole song instead of some "la la la"s and a bar of a song on its own. And is it just me, or was the audio almost skipping/looping on a couple of the quarter note "la"s at the beginning there? Also, I think the voice drive parts were... odd. Like old V4 growl style.

Some of the Miku snippets that we thought were NT 2.0 are so genuinely good that I don't want to be negative, but assuming NT 2.0 really is a huge step up, this video hasn't really put that forward imo.
some of those snippets might be miku v6 tbf
 

MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,728
Sapporo
Miku NT ver.2 Early Access information :miku_ani_lili::miku_sakura_lili: 💕🎀🎈

(translated from the official Sonicwire blog)
The release of the Early Access (Beta) version of "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" is fast approaching next week, so we would like to provide you with some more details.

First, please take a look at the video we have prepared in which you can hear the new singing voice, new functions (Automatic Control), and the effects of various parameters.

Once again, "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" is the latest version of "Hatsune Miku NT" that uses a new singing voice synthesis engine (internal development code: M9) developed independently by Crypton Future Media. You can enjoy a stronger, more Hatsune Miku-like singing voice than ever before.

Please stay tuned as the latest information will be posted on the special page.
Q. Since it's a new engine, NT, does that mean the product name will be "Hatsune Miku NT2"?
A. The product name will remain "Hatsune Miku NT". For the time being, while the old and new engines are still mixed, and until the release of the major update, we will refer to it as "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" for the sake of convenience.

This is with the intention of providing both the Early Access version and the major update version free of charge to existing "Hatsune Miku NT" users.

Q. What is the difference from the original "Hatsune Miku NT"?
A. First of all, the singing voice synthesis engine is completely new. However, careful research and development was carried out to ensure that the traditional Hatsune Miku-ness was not lost.

In addition, since the engine is new, the installed parameters (such as the Super Formant Shifter) have been newly developed for the new engine.

In addition, we have added a function called "Piapro Studio - Automatic Control." This is a general term for a group of functions such as automatic pitch curve application, automatic vibrato application, and automatic consonant length adjustment. We have added this function in the hope that we can provide a better starting point for music creators so that they can concentrate even more on their creative activities.

Q. Can Automatic Control be turned on/off?
A: Yes you can.

Q. How do I apply Automatic Control?
A. It is automatically applied as you type the notes, so you can achieve a natural singing expression without even thinking about it.

Q. Is each parameter repeatable with Automatic Control?
A. In the case of the same voice library, pitch, and lyrics (phonemes), the expression will be reproduced. *Not limited to this, we are considering various updates in the future.

Q. Will the current "Hatsune Miku NT" no longer be usable? What will happen to "Piapro Studio NT"?
A. "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" will be provided as a new application/plug-in called "Piapro Studio NT2." Those who are currently using "Hatsune Miku NT" can continue to use it.

Recently, we held a prototype exhibit at Hatsune Miku "Magical Mirai 2024" in Osaka, and we received a lot of expectations, opinions, and support. Thank you very much. We would like to take this opportunity to thank you all. The entire development team will continue to work hard to provide you with better singing voices and software.
 
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BANKARA_TEEvie

voxbox guy
Jun 24, 2021
44
I don't know that I think this sounds any better than what we have now?? Maybe I need to hear actual tuning for a whole song instead of some "la la la"s and a bar of a song on its own. And is it just me, or was the audio almost skipping/looping on a couple of the quarter note "la"s at the beginning there? Also, I think the voice drive parts were... odd. Like old V4 growl style.

Some of the Miku snippets that we thought were NT 2.0 are so genuinely good that I don't want to be negative, but assuming NT 2.0 really is a huge step up, this video hasn't really put that forward imo.
imo... if i heard people, like you, talking about how they didn't really feel this was a huge upgrade... i'd totally get where you're coming from, yk? but as an NT fan, i can totally see the ways in which they've essentially 'rebuilt' the engine for a lot of this... i feel as if her timbre/the engine noise comes off as more intentional and 'natural', rather than simply low quality like the first ever NT beta. i also think that the other general params sound better - the voice voltage in particular seemed to do its job pretty well.
i'm not really sure if this is the big update lots of people were expecting, but for someone like me who finds NT a really fun engine to use anyway, i feel as if this will come with a lot of things that make it more useable and fun to do so, and that naturally what people can bring out of the engine will be what sounds best (like, miku NT 1.0 can already be tuned really well, i feel as if this will be a much better user experience and better sound overall, even if the final product doesn't necessarily SEEM too different from the outside)...
...idk. at least crypton is wanting to try new things like with V6 too, and they have a bit more of a vision with NT - i would certainly say they're doing something good, even if the engine could still be considered a lot more narrow in terms of use-cases unlike miku v2.
 

Leon

AKA missy20201 (Elliot)
Apr 8, 2018
1,040
Aw you know, from that perspective, this is actually really nice. It's so good to hear from the users and more intended audiences of things like these sometimes! Thank you for sharing, and being really kind and informative even though my post was admittedly not very optimistic. I appreciate the input, and I do agree that I've heard some surprisingly awesome NT 1.0 uses, so I look forward to hearing what people do with 2.0!
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
324
On my initial listen to the video, I was also confused as to how the voice sounded so poor when it sounded so much better at Magical Mirai, but when the instrumental portion started playing, I felt like I could hear problems with that too. My theory was that the NT2 showcase uploaded to Sonicwire's channel used a low quality audio encoding/bitrate within its video, so to test it out I decided to do the following:

I used two, third party, YT -> MP4 services to download the NT2 Showcase video and an unrelated video to compare. Since I can't download the original video itself, we will never know the true audio quality - but we can compare to other videos using the same parameters to gauge a general idea!

For Serivce1, I downloaded and compared NT2's showcase video and an Ariana Grande lyric video.
For Service2, I downloaded and compared NT2's showcase video and a Miku V4C demonstration video.

In Service1, the difference was much more drastic (with NT2 S1.mp4's audio bitrate being less than half of the Ariana Grande video's bitrate), but in both instances the video had a significantly less audio bitrate than other videos.

Therefore, this video does not seem to be an accurate reflection of NT2's sound quality. Honestly, it sounds more like they used the native screen recorder built in Windows 11 or something, and just didn't care to go back and adjust anything / re-do it.
 

MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,728
Sapporo
I was curious and checked too the bitrate with the yt-dlp tool, and yes, the bitrate of both audio and video is not very high, in detail we have available:
audio: .m4a format (129k bitrate) or .opus format (62k bitrate)
video: .avc1 h264 format and .vp9 formats available, up to 1080p limited to 30fps (bitrate setting low-medium)

usually, the audio bitrate is around 130k for .m4a and 140~150k for .opus, and since there is that 62k bitrate for .opus, probably the screen capture and editing tool used to make the video had like an export video setting to "mobile/low quality" upload, then you add the bad youtube compression. That's why I always prefer NicoNico, since its default audio bitrate is 192k.
my guess is that, since both Crypton and Sonicwire tech staff must be very busy now with all development schedule of NT ver.2 and Vocaloid 6, probably they asked an office employee to record and edit the video. the tech staff surely noticed too the low audio bitrate of the upload, but since is a video meant to showcase the user interface and some of the available settings of the Beta version soon to be released, they kept the video.
Now that I think about it, I remember that in the past some video demo uploaded on Sonicwire channel had a low audio quality and they decided to re-upload some videos later again with a higher audio bitrate, but those were audio tracks demo and had different audio output settings (like the Magical Mirai presentation).:miku_ani_lili:
 

kimiworld

New Fan
Jul 11, 2018
17
I think Crypton might intentionally post the NT demo video in a LQ manner to reduce everyone's expectations. This is because the earlier clip of demo (also the same second version of NT) has a higher quality compared to the newly uploaded Youtube video:

 
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MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,728
Sapporo
Miku NT ver.2 Early Access available(●'◡'●)💕🎁🎈
(the demo songs are very impressive!!(*/ω\*)❤❤🎀
(/translated from the official blog page)
The Early Access version of "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" has been released.
October 23, 2024 17:40 by Takamichi Koizumi

We have released the Early Access version (beta version) of "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" . Regular users of "Hatsune Miku NT" can get it for free. Please give it a try.

"Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" Early Access version special page »
"Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" is the latest version of "Hatsune Miku NT" that employs a new singing voice synthesis engine (internal development code: M9) developed exclusively by Crypton Future Media.

Singing demonstration video
We have prepared a demonstration video of the Early Access version of "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" singing four phrases.

<Mixed and tuned version>
This is a lyric video of the audio that was recorded, mixed, and edited. I hope it will be helpful for you to get an idea of what kind of music you will create with "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)" in the future.

<Solid Printing>
This is the "flat-line" version. I hope it will be helpful to know that "just by inputting the melody and lyrics, it can sing to this extent."

In "Hatsune Miku NT (Ver.2)," we have achieved the "likeness" of Hatsune Miku in the singing voice and our virtual singers through Automatic Control, which was developed by combining a synthesis engine, vocal editor, various parameters, effectors, and machine learning, and we continue to make further improvements every day. We will continue to receive feedback from everyone who has experienced Early Access, and while making further improvements, we plan to release the official version as a major update in the first half of 2025. * Regular users of "Hatsune Miku NT" will continue to be able to use it free of charge.
The Early Access version is available for free to regular users of "Hatsune Miku NT." Please give it a try.
Our research and development team will continue to work hard to provide you with better singing voices and software.

Installation Guide
* The following steps are for those who own "HATSUNE MIKU NT". If you wish to use the HATSUNE MIKU NT (Ver.2) Early Access, the product must be registered to your account.

Sign in to SONICWIRE website.* You will need an account where "HATSUNE MIKU NT" is already registered.
Obtain "HATSUNE MIKU NT (Ver.2) Early Access" for 0 YEN from the button below.
Obtain Early Access
From the list of the "LICENSED PRODUCT" page, open the "Install Guide" under the "HATSUNE MIKU NT" (Ver.2) Early Access, and follow the instructions provided to download and install the software.

Specifications and Known Issues of the "HATSUNE MIKU NT (Ver.2)" Early Access Version
Here we list the specifications and reported/known issues for the "HATSUNE MIKU NT (Ver.2)" Early Access version as of October 23, 2024.

For main features, new functions, and the included voice library, please refer to the special page for the "HATSUNE MIKU NT (Ver.2)" Early Access.
Specifications
- The "Attack Speed" parameter is not available.
- Voice Color: Only supports "Accent."
- Vibrato: The "Vibrato" tab under "Note Settings..." is disabled. Manual input via the automation area shown when clicking the "Vibrato" button in the sidebar is also disabled.
- The "Portamento" option under "Note Settings..." is disabled when Automatic Control is turned on.
- An Automatic Update feature is disabled. Update information will be published on the SONICWIRE website and announced on the SONICWIRE blog. Additionally, users who have already installed the Early Access version and subscribed to the newsletter will be notified via email.

Known Issues
- Manual vibrato cannot be applied from the waveform display section. Workaround: You can manually apply vibrato to any notes by selecting both "vibrato-applied notes" and "non-applied notes" simultaneously, then adjusting the vibrato length from the waveform display section.
- The application crashes when switching a track layer on a full-size piano roll display and then immediately exiting full-size mode after switching layers.
- The application crashes when pitch notes are muted, split, and then unmuted in order.
- The application crashes when unpronounceable elements, such as consonants or typos, are included at the end of a phonetic string.
- VoiceDrive turns off on the duplicated track when duplicating a track.
- The application freezes when pitch notes are moved to a fast-tempo range, and undo or moving them back to a slow range is performed.
- (Under investigation) Rendering waveform abnormalities may occur due to consecutive operations. Workaround: Changing and then restoring the note's pitch to trigger re-rendering improves the issue.
- The plugin may fail to launch in Digital Performer.
 
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