VOCALOID What's Wrong with the Western Community of Vocaloid?

[Aia]

Lately in Twitter there are people hating on the western community of Vocaloid. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. I dont know of it's because I haven't been in the fandom that long or that I've always been in the western part of the fandom.

What do you guys think of the Western community? How is it different from the Japanese community?

I genuinely want to know.

 

[uncreepy]

I am 90% sure what people are complaining about right now is the fact that some people on Twitter like to make Vocaloid memes. (Ex: Where they make Vocaloids recreate what is said in popular video clips and put their heads on the people in the clip.) Their reasoning for hating memes like that is that Miku is their queen and shouldn't be treated in such a fashion. I guess those critics would rather have us bowing before Miku's feet and worshiping her with a Vocaloid merchandise shrine rather than using Miku to make people laugh for a few minutes.

In my humble opinion, making stupid Vocaloid memes is just about the same as old stupid Talkloid stuff. I don't see the problem with either. If someone spends their money on Vocaloids, I feel they should be able to create whatever thing they want with it, regardless of if it's cool, spooky, stupid, cute, etc.

Another thing I saw that was slightly related was people who have unofficial Vocaloid Twitters (ex: a Twitter where they pretend they are Miku) is that they are getting too political. I guess I can agree with that, because it's not official and I could see if you don't agree with those political statements that people would think you hate Miku if you don't agree with "her" (even though it's not her, it's just some fan). I personally don't like political stuff on Twitter and block all the keywords I can think of, so maybe rather than trying to get people with unnofficial Vocaloid Twitters to stop, it would be better if users actively ignored those keywords by blocking them and avoiding drama (let them say what they want with their circle of fans and don't stir the pot).

 

[hamano]

...
Another thing I saw that was slightly related was people who have unofficial Vocaloid Twitters (ex: a Twitter where they pretend they are Miku) is that they are getting too political. I guess I can agree with that, because it's not official and I could see if you don't agree with those political statements that people would think you hate Miku if you don't agree with "her" (even though it's not her, it's just some fan). I personally don't like political stuff on Twitter and block all the keywords I can think of, so maybe rather than trying to get people with unnofficial Vocaloid Twitters to stop, it would be better if users actively ignored those keywords by blocking them and avoiding drama (let them say what they want with their circle of fans and don't stir the pot).

I won't say the account's name, but there's one certain miku account towards which I lost all respect and ended up truly hating, thanks to the massive amount of "Miku is trans/gay" sh*t. If you disagreed, you'd be labeled all kinds of bad. Nowadays it's not quite like that anymore as I heard Crypton told the person in charge of that account to stop the "gay-miku" stuff or get deleted (though I've blocked that account so I don't actually know what it's like now).

Anyhow...

I'm only going to focus on the Miku fandom since I'm most familiar with it, but there's a lot of fans in both communities, that threat Miku as precious and look down on "stupid" use of Miku. I would count myself as one of these people, and I believe many think Miku should be treated with due respect when presenting her to the public.

Also I've seen that some people are concerned about Miku's image in the west, fearing that Miku will be mostly known by the Western audience as a meme rather than a virtual singer and software.

I personally dislike those silly Vocaloid meme videos, but I don't mind people doing them. I just don't watch them.

 

[uncreepy]

I'm gonna call the two sides "Miku is precious" side and "Miku meme" side (for simplicity's sake).

The thing that annoys me about "Miku is precious" people is that some of the stuff they churn out is worse than a dumb meme. Like, I feel a lot of Japanese artists in the precious side draw disturbing "get me the holy water eye bleach combo" level art that I am forced to see on Twitter on almost a day to day basis. It makes me feel sick of seeing Miku because of them. Like drawings where she has a cute smile, her undies are sticking out or she's half naked, even though she's a teenager. And these are being retweeted by prominent people in the "Miku is precious circle" (I consider people who have a lot of hard to get information on their Twitter and having tons of followers as being prominent, or people who are producers/music video artists). They put her on a pedistal as being their goddess, coat their room in memorabilia of her, but then sully her image by retweeting what are essentially lewds. It's creepy because a lot of them are full grown men.

I am not a prude, but I feel like there is a line that should be drawn in personal vs "business" life. Keep those images to yourself and don't force people to look at it. If you're supposed to be a top tier producer with tons of fans, for example, don't give me nightmares by scrolling through Twitter and then seeing a stinking animated PV with Miku's bare rump flapping in the wind while singing. I'm still haunted by that one...

So, overall, I feel like forcing people to think Miku is precious in the same way you do or trying to use Miku as political propaganda are similarly annoying. Some memes can be funny, but some are disturbing and not funny. Some people who think Miku is precious need to keep their lewds to themselves. Maybe some people just have too much time on their hands and need to like, go outside and step away from the computer. >>;

 

[Aia]

I'm gonna call the two sides "Miku is precious" side and "Miku meme" side (for simplicity's sake).

The thing that annoys me about "Miku is precious" people is that some of the stuff they churn out is worse than a dumb meme. Like, I feel a lot of Japanese artists in the precious side draw disturbing "get me the holy water eye bleach combo" level art that I am forced to see on Twitter on almost a day to day basis. It makes me feel sick of seeing Miku because of them. Like drawings where she has a cute smile, her undies are sticking out or she's half naked, even though she's a teenager. And these are being retweeted by prominent people in the "Miku is precious circle" (I consider people who have a lot of hard to get information on their Twitter and having tons of followers as being prominent, or people who are producers/music video artists). They put her on a pedistal as being their goddess, coat their room in memorabilia of her, but then sully her image by retweeting what are essentially lewds. It's creepy because a lot of them are full grown men.

I am not a prude, but I feel like there is a line that should be drawn in personal vs "business" life. Keep those images to yourself and don't force people to look at it. If you're supposed to be a top tier producer with tons of fans, for example, don't give me nightmares by scrolling through Twitter and then seeing a stinking animated PV with Miku's bare rump flapping in the wind while singing. I'm still haunted by that one...

So, overall, I feel like forcing people to think Miku is precious in the same way you do or trying to use Miku as political propaganda are similarly annoying. Some memes can be funny, but some are disturbing and not funny. Some people who think Miku is precious need to keep their lewds to themselves. Maybe some people just have too much time on their hands and need to like, go outside and step away from the computer. >>;

Yeah I guess I can agree with you on that. I think what bothers me the most is how some people call out some ebooks accounts for being derogatory and promoting toxicity while they themselves are being derogatory towards the ebooks community in general. I think this coming from older fans because they talk as if the younger fans have no idea what they're talking about. I just feel like those guys should stop acting like it's 2008 know that people will see Miku differently than them.

 

[Aia]

Idk I just want to write more about this topic and show how closed minded they are. I mean it really serves no purpose getting angry over a meme.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

I like Vocaloid memes (aside from the offensive/gross shit, of course). I never even knew people got butthurt over them. (And apparently, Vocaloid comedy songs are fine while traditional meme formats are an affront to Queen Miku's honour. )

I find it hypocritical that the Miku Is Precious crowd treat her like an innocent waifu, yet happily consumes Rule 34 of her. I'm a Miku super-fangirl too, but I don't care to see Miku lewds on my social media accounts (especially in public where there's a risk of people seeing it on my mobile phone by accident... orz). I also dislike Vocaloid roleplay accounts using the characters for SJW-style politics - yes, Vocaloid has no canon and you can give the avatars any attributes you want, but using them for obnoxious political stuff just annoys the fans who don't care for that crap.

 

[Wario94]

For me, the one thing on the western Vocaloid community that I can't stand of is this so-called "Meme Squad" and the characters on that "group" are Fukase, flower, Oliver, and Piko. And to make things worst, many people headcanon Fukase as a "Meme Lord". Why?!?!?!?
For one thing, I'm completely REFUSED to watch these Talkloid videos that has the word "Meme Squad" because, like uncreepy said, "Some memes can be funny, but some are disturbing and not funny." Like for example, here's this, let's just say, "crappost" videos like for example "Oliver Hits flower"? "Fukase and flower Fight Over the TV Remote"? And here's the worst one of all: "Fukase Burns to Death"?!? Thankfully, like I said earlier, I'm completely refused watching that last mentioned video.

And now for the shipping part:
For me, I'm a FukaFlower (Fukase X flower) shipping, and I even support them all without following those "Meme Squad" stuff!
Anyway, besides FukaFlower, there this two couples that I completely REFUSED to look up: Olikase (Oliver X Fukase) and Floko (flower X Piko). For me, it felt unnatural because Olikase is one of the overrated Vocaloid shipping. And the whole Floko? Well... I don't wanna see flower dating with Piko. I wanna see both Fukase and flower dating with each other. And also they're one of the underrated Vocaloid shipping.

 

[lIlI]

I think it's worth remembering that Vocaloid has a rich history of social discourse. It just happens that most social commentary in Vocaloid songs is Japanese, and pertains to issues from a different culture; which most of us aren't fully aware of.

So is there anything wrong with Western Vocaloid? I think ultimately, we are behaving like all people in a free creative environment: promoting ideas we care about. Getting heated is just the side effect of caring.

 

[Aia]

I think it's worth remembering that Vocaloid has a rich history of social discourse. It just happens that most social commentary in Vocaloid songs is Japanese, and pertains to issues from a different culture; which most of us aren't fully aware of.

So is there anything wrong with Western Vocaloid? I think ultimately, we are behaving like all people in a free creative environment: promoting ideas we care about. Getting heated is just the side effect of caring.

Woah that's a really good point. I think though if people do want less "drama" is to build more tolerance. I do think that promoting the things we care about is completely normal; it's just how we are. If we could just do that while accepting new things as they are the community would be more peaceful. Idk if I worded it right but yeah.

 

[YunīC]

I honestly honestly still don't understand how a persons gender & sexuality is seen as political thing in any way (maybe that's just culture difference because I don't think I've seen german people claim that as being political yet) and I hate when people let's say complain about a game being to political for including such things

but I honestly understand that that one account did it a bit to agressively so and got to popular so that crypton had to step in.

 

[uncreepy]

I don't wanna talk about it too much, because I strongly believe that talking about politics is taboo with people not in your close circle of friends/family, but it is very political in some places like the US, because the government tries to make laws to hurt people (for example) who are transgender or people of the same gender who want to marry by making/changing laws. (This is what the Miku Twitter talked about a lot.) It is also closely tied to religion, which is also another topic I don't recommend talking passionately about online with strangers. Basically, the topic is more extreme in the US right now because of the elections coming up and social justice movements. So using Miku as a Twitter soapbox got people either rallying for support or feeling annoyed because of their core values (politics, religion) and/or the question of if they want to see "Miku" talking about those types of topics.

Disclaimer: I think all people deserve equal rights, but I will never reveal my political affiliation (private ballots exist for a reason), I'm under the LGBT label (as ace), don't come for me for relaying information. >< I can empathize with the Miku twitter, but I am in the camp of "don't use pop culture characters to promote serious topics like that", I guess. Sorry for explaining really badly. (Also, the Western side of the Vocaloid fandom has a lot of LGBT members who are very active in the scene. I think that's part of why the Miku Twitter blew up.)

 

[YunīC]

Hmmm.... I guess I can see that it can be political in certain conditions

Yeah, generally LGBT isn't a theme that's good being discussed with strangers because it can go very wrong very fast!

 

[Nezuh]

Wow, people really did that kind of things with the Miku twitter?
....why?

I mean, I don't know what things they have said because I didn't touch Twitter in years, but regardless of their political position or whatever, that's just....trashy.

 

[Overcast Immortal]

I suppose I'm one of the few people to live under a rock these days. My only connections to the Vocaloid fandom are this site and the songs posted to Youtube. My biggest problem with the western community in particular is a lack of Vocaloid metal and hard rock being made compared with how much the Japanese community makes. Aside from that, most of my criticisms of the western community also apply to the Japanese community.

The western community is exactly what I would expect it to be given the circumstances. The public perception is that Vocaloid is Japanese, and Japanese media is stigmatized in the west. On top of that, westerners are often skeptical of machines doing the work of humans, and often frown upon technological help in singing. Vocaloid strikes many, if not most westerners as strange, pointless, and unattractive. As a result, Vocaloid is very niche in the west despite our best efforts, which brings me to another problem I have with the western community in particular:

I believe most western Vocaloid fans reject western Vocaloid designs that are not typically manga-styled and cute/pretty. I want western Vocaloids with just plain cool designs, too. I think it would help Vocaloid enter the mainstream here. We already have several western Vocaloids that don't have Japanese-influenced designs, like the Cyber singers, Chris, and Amy, but they are very unpopular.

So there's my rant against the western Vocaloid community. I still like it a lot, though.

 

[uncreepy]

My biggest problem with the western community in particular is a lack of Vocaloid metal and hard rock being made compared with how much the Japanese community makes. Aside from that, most of my criticisms of the western community also apply to the Japanese community.

I am hoping that when the updated Piapro Standalone comes out next year that people will utilize the new VocalDrive feature, it turns vocals into different types of screams (ranging from things like breathiness, growl, and death growl). I am ready for the influx of Vocaloid metal!!!

 

[bioloid]

The western Vocaloid community has always had its share of drama, and stupid, poorly made, and/or argumentative content, and argumentative/SJW/high-horse people. It kinda goes with the territory. I see it as less of a problem than it was in the past. It's not as in-your-face as it was when it would blow up on other forums. It's a lot easier to unfollow and/or mute accounts on Twitter.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

I don't see too much of the "Western vocaloid community" drama outside of what has already been mentioned, but I think what garners a lot of hate for the western fandom is people reuploading videos, songs, mmd models, etc. w/o permission and so it's frowned upon by the Japanese/eastern community. I think it's because (from what I understand) is that Japan has strict copyright laws and the original content creator can supposedly get in a lot of trouble if their content is reuploaded, I guess? Can't say for sure. My Japanese isn't that great so I don't spend much time interacting with the JPN vocaloid community outside of uploading on NicoNico and I'm not very familiar with Japanese law.
Outside of this, it's pretty much as everyone else has already said.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

All of the Twitter and meme shenanigans aside, I feel like the Western community has always been held to a higher standard. Engloids, western producers, and western memes and Vocaloid fan communities are always more scrutinized than their Eastern counterparts. And usually this scrutinization is FROM the western fandom. For years I've been hearing people say "the western community sucks".

I think that's just because not much of the Western fandom can actually read/speak Japanese, so they can't communicate with the Japanese fandom and see what their community is like. (Needless to say, the Japanese fandom has just as much drama as the Western fandom. ) The Western fandom is easier to criticise because many people can speak the lingua franca of the world, which is English.

 

[Leon]

There's also just a lot of silly drama, and I'm sure there's also plenty of it in the JP and CHN sides that we don't ever see from our limited viewpoints.

Sidenote I'm a fan of the meme squad. It's cute, and I think it's pretty harmless for people to make those silly talkloids, same as any other silly talkloid that's been made in the past. Sort of like uncreepy said, if someone paid for it then they can do whatever they want with it (limits on making money off it notwithstanding).