Unpopular Opinions

[DefiantKitsune]

Interesting point someone made on Twitter:

Yamaha made several vocaloids with famous VPs, partnered with large companies, and brought old vocaloids back from the dead for V4.

Almost all of them tanked.
Is it any surprise they don't seem to care too much anymore? No matter what they do, people will just buy Miku again anyway.

 

[Leon]

Interesting point someone made on Twitter:

Yamaha made several vocaloids with famous VPs, partnered with large companies, and brought old vocaloids back from the dead for V4.

Almost all of them tanked.
Is it any surprise they don't seem to care too much anymore? No matter what they do, people will just buy Miku again anyway.

Ah, yeah, well. As myself and a few others pointed out on that very same tweet, all of these instances were unfortunate, in some way. Unity-chan being used in Unity was Very Questionable Quality, and her design was. A choice. (Should've gone with Akaza as the main design, if you ask me). Arsloid was also strange, where his normal bank was okay, but his other banks were very clearly made just for XSY as they were much choppier, and he was pretty grating all around. Sachiko ended up being even more niche than Tonio is, somewhere in the land of Prima -- she sounds great when used to her strengths, but doesn't really fit the popular music styles that Vocaloid users tend to use. Fukase was the best of the bunch, and I'll admit I'm not really sure why he isn't more popular. His English bank is a little more weak/accented than I expected based off irl Fukase's singing, and the design is wacky + apparently his name/voice/image is very hard to get license to use? So maybe some combination of those.

I'm not saying these are all terrible banks or anything. As the original poster of that tweet said, Unity-chan can sound really nice if you put the work in, and I've seen a few Arsloid stans. Most people at least like Grandmaloid, and I know I'll be buying Fukase and joining his hype train someday soon. But looking at each individual case, I can see some reasons why each one may have broken down.

Also Yamaha just generally isn't great with advertising and continuing to promote things, and idk if that's a widely-agreed-upon statement or not, but I stand by it. Case in point, Cyman being dropped on Halloween morning randomly with no prior announcement and then essentially never advertised outside the "buy V4/Cyman/Cyva for $250!" bundle that happened, and now "oh yeah he and Cyva/VY1/VY2 come with V5 Premium!".

 

[DefiantKitsune]

Yeah, admittedly, some of those banks did have problems (Azuki and Matcha didn't stand out at ALL by the time they publicly released), but still, even going back to VY2 and Mew, Yamaha really never got any success out of their own software.

Also Yamaha just generally isn't great with advertising and continuing to promote things, and idk if that's a widely-agreed-upon statement or not, but I stand by it. Case in point, Cyman being dropped on Halloween morning randomly with no prior announcement and then essentially never advertised outside the "buy V4/Cyman/Cyva for $250!" bundle that happened, and now "oh yeah he and Cyva/VY1/VY2 come with V5 Premium!".

Well for what it's worth, up until about shortly before Cyman, Yamaha really did put good effort into promotion. Mew and VY1V3 were particularly well promoed imo. Sometime around Cyman they just....stopped.

 

[Leon]

Yeah, admittedly, some of those banks did have problems (Azuki and Matcha didn't stand out at ALL by the time they publicly released), but still, even going back to VY2 and Mew, Yamaha really never got any success out of their own software.



Well for what it's worth, up until about shortly before Cyman, Yamaha really did put good effort into promotion. Mew and VY1V3 were particularly well promoed imo. Sometime around Cyman they just....stopped.

Fair points! I do recall VY1 being decently advertised, and afaik she did fairly well? Definitely was always regarded as one of the highest quality banks, even back in V2 days. I don't remember much of Mew's promotion sadly. Bit outside my sphere at the time orz

It's just so strange to me, because Crypton advertises and pushes their 'loids to hell and back. And look at the Chinese banks, which are all marketable and being actively marketed. They're very successful rn! Ah, it makes me a little sad. I am starting to think Yamaha might have essentially given up on Vocaloid :(

 

[DefiantKitsune]

Oh, and Fukase being unpopular definitely isn't too accurate; he's literally only behind Una in terms of V4 JP vocaloid usage. (Akari is next and she's got around half as many as he does, although she is much newer).

 

[DefiantKitsune]

Fair points! I do recall VY1 being decently advertised, and afaik she did fairly well? Definitely was always regarded as one of the highest quality banks, even back in V2 days. I don't remember much of Mew's promotion sadly. Bit outside my sphere at the time orz

Eh......VY1 was bundled with most starter packs for a long time, I doubt she would have done as well without that....she never really gets too many hits song wise...

 

[Leon]

Eh......VY1 was bundled with most starter packs for a long time, I doubt she would have done as well without that....she never really gets too many hits song wise...

That's fair. It's a real shame.

 

[DefiantKitsune]

That's fair. It's a real shame.

To be honest, I always thought she sounded super similar to Meiko but that's an unpopular opinion in and of itself.

She does have some hits, probably on par with Mayu. Better than poor Mew for sure.

 

[Prism]

I feel like the celebrity voice bank are hit or miss. I feel like gumi, gakupo, Lilly, ia, and fukase are really the only ones who are truly successful. I think the issue is that some of them don't sound like the voice provider like say chika. I like the idea of cloning a celebrities voice just wish they were closer.

Ps love mew wish we get a update and English voice bank one day

 

[Rylitah]

I don't think Fukase being behind Una is saying much orz. He has decent popularity, but Yamaha themselves even said he didn't do nearly as well as they'd expected/hoped. Of course, it's possible they had unrealistically high expectations for him, but for a Vocaloid I see around all the time in Western community, his actual upload numbers on Nico don't nearly reflect that at all.

In the case of Arsloid, he wasn't even meant for a public release. Iirc he only released at all since people showed interest, and it took some time before he finally did release.

Unity-chan existed as a character before and continues to exist beyond Vocaloid, so it's no surprise to me why they went with her for their main design and not Akaza. I'm... not really sure of the point of Akaza's existence at all still, honestly, though it is a nice design. I don't believe it would have helped Unity-chan's sales had they gone with that design, though. The voice is super unfitting (imo).

 

[cafenurse]

I think Yamaha would benefit if they hyped up their vocals a little more. DDR were hyped up quite a bit before their release and I think that worked well for them. Ignoring the controversy with Ruby's design, she had samples of her voice out a long time before she was released and it got people really excited for her. When Yamaha drops a Vocaloid and its demos the same day they announce it even exists, I don't think it does the Vocaloid any favors. If I remember correctly...didn't Mirai Komachi not even have demos?
I think Fukase would have been more successful if it wasn't for the fact you have to get permission to make money off of songs with him. Circus-P mentioned on stream the other day that he went through the hassle to do it once and he'd just rather make a song with any other Vocaloid to avoid it. I think a lot of producers feel the same way- why go through all that hassle when you could just use someone else and avoid it?



Anyway, what I originally came here to say was...
I like Daina's design a lot! I saw someone call it a fashion disaster once but I think it looks really cool. I'm not very style savvy though, so what do I know? I like it

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

If I remember correctly...didn't Mirai Komachi not even have demos?
I think Fukase would have been more successful if it wasn't for the fact you have to get permission to make money off of songs with him. Circus-P mentioned on stream the other day that he went through the hassle to do it once and he'd just rather make a song with any other Vocaloid to avoid it. I think a lot of producers feel the same way- why go through all that hassle when you could just use someone else and avoid it?

Yeah. I don't think Mirai had any demos... I hadn't even heard of her until I just happened to be on the Vocaloid website they day of her release.

Also, I agree that Fukase would probably benefit more if you didn't have to get permissions, but, I thought Crypton was the same? I could be wrong, or maybe I'm right and Fukase's process is just more convoluted. If I had to guess why it is the way it is, it's probably since he was sampled from a well-known singer and they didn't want Vocaloid Fukase to cause issues for IRL Fukase. (But, RoboCheatsy! Gumi and Gackupo are sampled from real singers and they do just fine!)

I know. But, it could have something to do with the way Yamaha handles marketing and whatnot. I haven't been in this fandom for as long as others, but from what I've heard, Yamaha isn't exactly good at marketing things.

Tbh, the whole thing with Fukase reminds me of the issues that really hindered Piko at the time of Piko's release, although Piko's was slightly different because Sony was weird about people using Piko's trials and sharing work done with the trial. (But, if I recall correctly, didn't Sony fail to mention this at first?)

Ehh. Sorry for the long post.

 

[cafenurse]

I don't believe you have to ask Crypton permission to sell music featuring one of their Vocaloids.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

I don't believe you have to ask Crypton permission to sell music featuring one of their Vocaloids.

Huh. I could've sworn I'd read that on Piapro somewhere. Well, that's good to know if I ever end up making an original! XD

 

[uncreepy]

That is not correct. You do have to ask Crypton for permission to sell music if it contains their imagery/name, because you are using their characters to help promote your work that people would probably not notice otherwise. (I was reading their terms on their website earlier today in addition to the fact that I have read Crypton's and other Vocaloid companies terms in the past.) You don't have to pay to use the voice in songs if you have no mention of it being a Vocaloid and don't show their official artwork (Fukase is the only Vocaloid that requires a fee for simply using his voice even if you don't mention it's him). Basically, you need a character usage license to use their character design or name to promote your work.

 

[cafenurse]

You don't have to pay to use the voice in songs if you have no mention of it being a Vocaloid and don't show their official artwork

That's what I meant with my comment, my apologies for not being clear enough.

 

[Wario94]

Okay, now I will talk about the Vocaloid shipping territory:
two of the well known Vocaloid shipping are LenXNeru (LenNeru/LeNeru/レンネル) and LenXTei (TeiLen/LenTei/テイレン/レンテイ) in which both Tei and Neru's crush is Len. Well, there's this lesser known ship which is a three-way relationship between Len, Neru, and Tei. Not only that, but within this ship is an even lesser known ship between Neru and Tei because not only they have a same crush (Len) but it also have a relationship between them as well.

Edit: originally I put an art that showcase TeiLenNeru, but it was removed due to me forgot to credited the artist who drew that art.
Because of that, I will fix it myself:
The following art was drew by Bansoukou on Niconico Seiga:

 

[DefiantKitsune]

I don't think Fukase being behind Una is saying much orz. He has decent popularity, but Yamaha themselves even said he didn't do nearly as well as they'd expected/hoped. Of course, it's possible they had unrealistically high expectations for him, but for a Vocaloid I see around all the time in Western community, his actual upload numbers on Nico don't nearly reflect that at all.

For what it's worth, Fukase had 187 originals this year alone listed on vocadb, and that's not complete. Not sure of the Yt vs NND breakdown.

It's possible he was widely pirated like vy2, although I hope not.

 

[StrawberryAce]

I think it's really disrespectful to bash a producer just because they used a voicebank you passionately hate or mildly dislike. Especially if it's an older song when back in the day there was hardly any selection. I actually remember when it was just literally Miku, Kaito and Meiko for the Japanese Vocaloids. If you wanted a youthful girly pop singer or if you wanted the program in Japanese, Miku was literally the only option back in the day until the Kagamines were released.

 

[peaches2217]

Opinion: I think the Vocaloid editor has one of the weaker interfaces of any vocal synth on the market. A lot of the tuning process ends up being left to guesswork. I can't wait for CeVIO and SynthV to release more vocals, because I adore their interfaces!