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Unpopular Opinions

morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
768
25
Socal
morrysillusion.wixsite.com
Honestly? I think it's good, but I don't think it's great. It's definitely wonderful and gives an abundance of options - the more the merrier! But listening to it, I can't in good faith say I find it better than most Vocaloids and well-made Utaus. Still, it's cool, and I'll definitely be checking more of it out!
i agree- i have seen myriad before and i think its laid out great. what it offers is fantastic. but it doesnt sound that good by today's standards... i love old synths and myriad is one ive known of for some time. i personally enjoy the old sound but its not super versatile for many (even voices on the better end are still not that great compared to other software), theres a reason why i wouldnt bring it up to put against new synths.

so, i can agree it has a lot of fantastic options, way more than current synths. but it doesnt exactly give the same results that make people like vocaloid or utau. as much as it is free/cheaper (for parts of it), obviously its comes down to the person to figure out if its worth using over vocaloid or utau.... id probably rather learn the ins and outs of utau due to its better quality, even if it has other limitations. Myriad is a cool thing to try if someone wants old sounding voices, but obviously programs like utau, vocaloid, and synth v are much better options when it comes to overall quality which is probably far more important to many producers in the end. myraid has other hurdles to get over if some people cant work with its set up (like the sheet music format) which may include dumping money on those additional softwares.
 

Purrpetuity

Myriad Came First
Sep 4, 2021
13
Hell
i agree- i have seen myriad before and i think its laid out great. what it offers is fantastic. but it doesnt sound that good by today's standards... i love old synths and myriad is one ive known of for some time. i personally enjoy the old sound but its not super versatile for many (even voices on the better end are still not that great compared to other software), theres a reason why i wouldnt bring it up to put against new synths.

so, i can agree it has a lot of fantastic options, way more than current synths. but it doesnt exactly give the same results that make people like vocaloid or utau. as much as it is free/cheaper (for parts of it), obviously its comes down to the person to figure out if its worth using over vocaloid or utau.... id probably rather learn the ins and outs of utau due to its better quality, even if it has other limitations. Myriad is a cool thing to try if someone wants old sounding voices, but obviously programs like utau, vocaloid, and synth v are much better options when it comes to overall quality which is probably far more important to many producers in the end. myraid has other hurdles to get over if some people cant work with its set up (like the sheet music format) which may include dumping money on those additional softwares.
I mean, there is also RealSinger, which is comparable to UTAU in terms of smoothness and quality? But yeah, I can see what people mean by it being outdated in terms of default voice quality.
 

peaches2217

Give me Gackpoid AI or give me DEATH
Sep 11, 2019
1,930
26
Arklahoma
I mean, there is also RealSinger, which is comparable to UTAU in terms of smoothness and quality? But yeah, I can see what people mean by it being outdated in terms of default voice quality.
Honestly, listening to it, I can’t agree there. It IS smooth, and it’s nice to listen to! But I’d put it on par with a lot of Utaus. I’m impressed that it’s held up so well though, honestly, I’ll give it that!
 

Purrpetuity

Myriad Came First
Sep 4, 2021
13
Hell
Honestly, listening to it, I can’t agree there. It IS smooth, and it’s nice to listen to! But I’d put it on par with a lot of Utaus. I’m impressed that it’s held up so well though, honestly, I’ll give it that!
Plus, there's the convenience factor. An English voicebank is only 20 recordings of singular phonemes, and it comes with the recording software built in, along with the reclist and the configuration software.
 

morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
768
25
Socal
morrysillusion.wixsite.com
while i can see realsinger having potential like utau and its also great to have another similar option, i cant really agree on that quality wise. it still has limits compared to utau as well and its an old software. i think myriad and realsinger offer good things but honestly theyre just as well different beasts to learn compared to learning utau. sure, the banks are tiny.... but that completely affects the quality, obviously. the recording list is short sure, but again... quality. it IS super convinient and easy to use, takes up little space, but it also is like that because is super old and dated, and cant manage to acheive the same quality as newer synths of synths that give more options to record even more detailed banks (like utau- which yes, the recordings may be long, but they are that way to be much much smoother).

still, i think its a neat little program. but i cant really put it on the level of utau or vocaloid
 

peaches2217

Give me Gackpoid AI or give me DEATH
Sep 11, 2019
1,930
26
Arklahoma
Ooh, I almost forgot! I’ve been on a Sachiko kick for the last ten hours or so (I may or may not have stayed up making a box for her, heh), so I wanna throw in my two cents: people say she’s hell to work with because of her consonants, but honestly I don’t think she’s any harder than, say, CUL or Lily or any other semi-difficult but beloved vocal. Her consonants can be easily tamed with note splitting, a task that’s as easy as a single click in V5. She’s certainly more limited on how you can use her, given she was made for enka, and she’s not the easiest to get good results out of, but she’s not the hellloid some make her out to be.
 

Purrpetuity

Myriad Came First
Sep 4, 2021
13
Hell
I think realsinger is great I wish they made a sequel to the software with higher quality synthesis it was a great concept definitely better than some of the earlier attempts like cantor.
It's still in active development, even all these years later and they're still updating the engine. I wouldn't say a sequel software would be in order, more just a massive update
 

Purrpetuity

Myriad Came First
Sep 4, 2021
13
Hell
If a synth can’t hold its own next to other free synths like UTAU and DV, it’s highly unlikely to ever make a worthwhile impact on fandom members—regardless of which came first or how convenient the recording methods might be.
I'd argue that it does hold it's own, but most people using it right now specialise in music composition as apposed to vocal synthesis, so it hasn't been shown to its full extent. More and more vocal synthesis users have been starting to use it, and between Louie Zong, Retraux, Arrietta, TMOS, JazzPear94 and apparently the vocal synthesis group Kandi Bytez, it's been shown to be viable but so far only one of those users has gone so far as to start using RealSinger, which most didn't even know was an option.

And honestly? That JUNO voicebank, despite not even being complete, was absolutely on par with UTAU or DV.

Right now, comparing MVS to either is like comparing UTAU to VOCALOID when all anyone is using is Defoko. It has a lot of potential, it just hasn't been realised up until very recently
 
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morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
768
25
Socal
morrysillusion.wixsite.com
I know most people like to joke about how weird Ryuuto's voice is, but I actually think he and Nemu's voices are quite unique among the rest of the vocaloids! Sure, their voices may be nasally, but at least they aren't another high pitched high school aged girl (we really do have too many)
i remember loving nemu when she came out and then realized i like gachapoid a lot too! i honestly love really "goofy" or "silly" kinds of synth voices tbh, it would be cool to see more but often times theyre seen as childish. some of my favorite utaus when i first got into it had very silly accents and tones (way back when in 2010... Spike and Psychotic Psycho, were ones i fell in love with lol)
 

Purrpetuity

Myriad Came First
Sep 4, 2021
13
Hell
i remember loving nemu when she came out and then realized i like gachapoid a lot too! i honestly love really "goofy" or "silly" kinds of synth voices tbh, it would be cool to see more but often times theyre seen as childish. some of my favorite utaus when i first got into it had very silly accents and tones (way back when in 2010... Spike, Psychotic Psycho, for example)
Ooooo I love Haruka Nana for that reason, and honestly, I love Gachapoid so much
 

aru ii

Your Neighborhood Tianyi Enthusiast!
Feb 12, 2021
1,010
VOCALOID4 Editor
I know most people like to joke about how weird Ryuuto's voice is, but I actually think he and Nemu's voices are quite unique among the rest of the vocaloids! Sure, their voices may be nasally, but at least they aren't another high pitched high school aged girl (we really do have too many)
When I just discovered Ryuto & Nemu I didn't liked them at all. I thought that they sounded too muffed, so I kind of forgot about them. Later I discovered Acme Iku, and I really liked her muffed high pitched printer voice. And then I started seeing some resemblance between Iku & Nemu, and later between Nemu & Ryuto
 

lIlI

Staff member
Moderator
Apr 6, 2018
843
The Lightning Strike
Recently, I've been having some thoughts on how companies use empathy and false connection to boost sales.

Right now, both Synth V and CeVIO's current marketing strategy seems to rely primarily on getting buyers attached to a piece of character design, rather than offering a product that benefits producers. Arguably, this was the case for much of Vocaloid's lifespan too.

We operate in a similar way to the gacha or idol industries; manipulating people's desire to spend via their empathy for a specific, carefully designed character. Most vocal synth companies are less focused on evoking the reaction: 'This voicebank sounds incredible', and more focused on evoking: 'I want to date/befriend her', 'I want to be like her', 'I want to support "her"'.

I know people get a lot of joy from their relationships with fictional characters, and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to make a purchase because they find a character appealing. But I think companies prioritising this aspect of human nature is detrimental for vocal synths and fans. It encourages a focus on manipulating buyers rather than benefiting them, and it discourages technological progress and variety.

I have the most respect for companies that genuinely care about creating something you can rationally justify purchasing because of its exemplary quality or unique features; rather than those that lean on an endearingly drawn smile to tempt people into buying something they don't need.
 
Last edited:
Sep 21, 2019
1,401
I never noticed it before, but now that you mention it, you've brought up great point and things have become crystal clear. Now you've got me trying to think of which ones do this--for SynthV, I'm thinking Rikka's friends (considering we've known about them quite some time before their voicebanks were ever demoed and Karin more or less sounds just like Rikka and despite being an subjectively nice voice, doesn't bring much to the table) and for CeVIO... well, my best guess is the uh... "questionable" one *cough*Fee*cough*.
 

morrysillusion

v flower enthusiast
Jul 14, 2018
768
25
Socal
morrysillusion.wixsite.com
the above is a sad fate i have been realizing more and more as i feel less interested in the current vocal synth scene and it also makes me see why having an opinion that has more to do with voices catering to producers and not "fans" is seen as unpopular-- i mean, i really get it. fandom is big. characters are fun to relate to and get excited for- its definitely easier to gain that attention when ppl look at an easily likeable character and not some intrument they have no use for. mostly in the east this kinda marketing has been a thing for a while... cute characters, advertising the interest in the characters, etc. "idol" culture i feel really spawned the idea of liking the image of a person/character that is basically built to interest people. its no surprise it has leaked over to other forms of media.

not to get too off topic on the overall discussion of idols and gacha-- but i wholly agree its not good to see this kinda trend that focuses so much more on making people like the character first and the voice second (or third). so much of content is becoming so focused on advirtising things and making things interesting over the actual intent of the product- be it movies, video games, or now vocal synth. its why i really hold tight to ones we get that don't do that- its important to support them when they come, so you can show them you want it more for what it is (a vocal synth) and not what its based around/dressed up in (a character).
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
699
Let's not forget that Miku pretty much has the vocal synth idol market cornered - most other attempts to follow her have a tendency to crash and burn, or just gain a niche following. While a success story pops up every once in a while (I.e. IA and ONE), for the most part people just either ignore or forget rival attempts at repeating Miku's success.
 
D

Deleted member 6215

Guest
Recently, I've been having some thoughts on how companies use empathy and false connection to boost sales.

Right now, both Synth V and CeVIO's current marketing strategy seems to rely primarily on getting buyers attached to a piece of character design, rather than offering a product that benefits producers. Arguably, this was the case for much of Vocaloid's lifespan too.

We operate in a similar way to the gacha or idol industries; manipulating people's desire to spend via their empathy for a specific, carefully designed character. Most vocal synth companies are less focused on evoking the reaction: 'This voicebank sounds incredible', and more focused on evoking: 'I want to date/befriend her', 'I want to be like her', 'I want to support "her"'.

I know people get a lot of joy from their relationships with fictional characters, and I don't begrudge anyone who wants to make a purchase because they find a character appealing. But I think companies prioritising this aspect of human nature is detrimental for vocal synths and fans. It encourages a focus on manipulating buyers rather than benefiting them, and it discourages technological progress and variety.

I have the most respect for companies that genuinely care about creating something you can rationally justify purchasing because of its exemplary quality or unique features; rather than those that lean on an endearingly drawn smile to tempt people into buying something they don't need.
I thought I was the only one who kinda thought this, even if it was just one time.
I always like to see them characters that are blank canvases for anyone to create and build, and that's how I always see them. I don't only see them as just instruments, or just some "idol", but something like an art tool overall, like a paint brush.

Maybe that's why I hate project sekai as a whole. It just does the whole "idol" thing to the extreme, and it just doesn't fit Vocaloid and stuff honestly. Maybe a little? But not a whole lot...

Ruko's female voicebank sounds so much better than the male one... I can't get myself to enjoy it. I know some people would go for my throat when I say that.
 
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Tortoiseshel

Aspiring Fan
Aug 23, 2021
54
It wouldn't be so bad if the fandom's(/industry's?) taste for what makes an "appealing" character weren't so narrow. It's mostly slight variations on a basic template of "young attractive girl/woman with one or two special quirks, or maybe a unique theme or aesthetic, to try to make her stand out" + a generally nice and appealing, but pretty generic voice mainly suited for pop music. And even the relatively few characters who do fall outside of that still tend to be generically attractive, usually pretty young, designed for "wide appeal", and drawn in a kind of "industry standard" anime/manga art style. It is in fact very similar to idol culture and gacha games, where characters are designed first with marketability in mind, rather than... any actual character.

At the same time though, I don't think vocal synths being "character-based" is at all a bad thing, inherently. To me at least, it just makes sense to put a face on an instrument that's meant to imitate the human voice, just like it makes sense to put a picture of a guitar on the box of a guitar synth. And for all I badmouthed generic moe teen girl characters in the previous paragraph... I actually really love a lot of characters that fit that mold. I'm really looking forward to Natsuki Karin and Hanakuma Chifuyu, and Karin's voice in particular I find to be very cute and charming; I think her nasally-ness gives her more character than a lot of other synths of a similar type. And she has a weird little demon rabbit plush companion thing! I just wish more vocal synths would be a bit more adventurous in their characterizations.

I've seen people respond to complaints like these- basically wishing for vocal synths to cater less to moe/anime/otaku/idol culture and not be seen as just a "weird anime thing" by the general public- by assuming that we want to go back to the days of like, Cantor and early Vocaloid; where you either had completely faceless and characterless synths, or at most a stock photo on the box. Or worse, that we are as actively disdainful of the fandom as EmVoice is. As if there's no room at all between "cutesy moe idol singer anime girl in a high school uniform" and "no-fun-allowed, business only, super professional virtual instrument with zero character". As if "anime" is the only art style capable of creating fun, appealing, interesting character designs (and yes I know "anime" isn't itself a distinct, coherent art style or anything, but just try and tell me you don't picture a certain type of artwork in your mind when I talk about it this way, in this context).

"Less moe synths" doesn't mean "no more character synths", it just means give me something new for a change! Give me character designs with actual character, not just marketability! Where the design decisions are made not based on what you think will most appeal to idol otaku or "whales", but on what makes the most sense for the voice and character you're trying to create. Hell, give me something that looks like the fella in my profile picture; I'd lose my shit in the best possible way!

On a completely different note, I am now downloading Myriad Harmony Assistant. Thanks for reminding me it was a thing, and that it's technically free.
 

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