Unpopular Opinions

[TheStarPalace]

Not much to add here, but it's funny that most of the people I know who are into vocal synths are afraid that all of them will be characterless at some point since they actively like the concept BECAUSE there's a character attached to it. Specifically, a character that appeals to them. I've lost most of my hope that any of these companies will make a character that appeals to me voice wise and character wise (usually it's just one or the other), but I'm glad there's some of us still hopeful and actually working to achieve that goal.

I think it makes even more sense to design a vocal synth character design for marketability because they are quite literally products. Still, it's a very cynicism inducing state we're in. We can redesign and rewrite the schoolgirls as much as we want, but at that point it's a whole other character isn't it?

 

[Rylitah]

I always like to see them characters that are blank canvases for anyone to create and build, and that's how I always see them. I don't only see them as just instruments, or just some "idol", but something like an art tool overall, like a paint brush.

Maybe that's why I hate project sekai as a whole. It just does the whole "idol" thing to the extreme, and it just doesn't fit Vocaloid and stuff honestly. Maybe a little? But not a whole lot...

Project Sekai is actually exactly about this, though. The whole point is that there are different "Mikus" that differ depending on each individual person's circumstance and experiences, and they're all the same character yet a totally different person to everyone who sees her. There's no one single or specific Miku except the normal Virtual Singer version, but there's little to no focus on that one and instead the game focuses more on how the other groups interpret their own version of Miku, which is pretty much how we as a community treat her already - she's different to all of us, but in the end she's still Miku. It works because Crypton tries very, very hard to push Miku as that - you can make your own Miku and she's just as Miku as any other!

(Not to say you can't dislike Project Sekai for your own reasons, but pushing a specific narrative of Miku and other Cryptonloids is very much not what it's trying to do orz)

About the bigger topic at hand, I actually really like when companies create characters and lore for people to connect with, though I definitely see why that can be a problem as it puts less focus on the product which is... not great. Personally though, it's difficult for me to get attached to just a voice, so of course the character aspect appeals to me. But there are tons of people in the community that want something new that I'm sure taking a risk every once in a while will be worth it. Variety is nice to have even if it won't win over everyone ever.

 

[Tortoiseshel]

Not much to add here, but it's funny that most of the people I know who are into vocal synths are afraid that all of them will be characterless at some point since they actively like the concept BECAUSE there's a character attached to it.

Really?? I can't imagine why they think that, characterless synths are the vast minority and I don't see any signs of that trend changing any time soon. Hell, one vocalist (Nakumo Neutrino) just graduated from facelessness literally yesterday :p

And yes, designing characters with marketability in mind does make sense as you say, since a lot of them are commercial products that you literally need to market... But I still don't like it Especially now and in the future, as the cost of making decently high-quality vocal synths gets lower and lower, and thus the barrier of entry gets lower, and more people are able to make more vocalists with different goals and for different tastes; marketing to as wide a demographic as possible shouldn't be necessary anymore, and we should be able to get more diverse characters. Of course, corporations by their very nature are about making as much money as possible, so any of our hopes for something new will most likely come from smaller teams or even individuals... at least you would think. Regrettably, even the "indie" ones tend to be more of the same in terms of character, from what I've seen. I mean it makes sense, these are mostly fans and they're gonna make what they like.

Anyway, I'm sure someone will eventually take up the mantle and make something really interesting and unique. I have high hopes for Maghni AI in that regard, the devs seem to be quite ambitious with voice types, character designs, and even language options, which hasn't been part of this discussion much but is another thing I think could use more diversity. I sincerely wish the best for them and hope that they're able to deliver on what they're working on.

 

[lIlI]

It wouldn't be so bad if the fandom's(/industry's?) taste for what makes an "appealing" character weren't so narrow. It's mostly slight variations on a basic template of "young attractive girl/woman with one or two special quirks, or maybe a unique theme or aesthetic, to try to make her stand out" + a generally nice and appealing, but pretty generic voice mainly suited for pop music. And even the relatively few characters who do fall outside of that still tend to be generically attractive, usually pretty young, designed for "wide appeal", and drawn in a kind of "industry standard" anime/manga art style. It is in fact very similar to idol culture and gacha games, where characters are designed first with marketability in mind, rather than... any actual character.

CONT.

At the same time though, I don't think vocal synths being "character-based" is at all a bad thing, inherently. To me at least, it just makes sense to put a face on an instrument that's meant to imitate the human voice, just like it makes sense to put a picture of a guitar on the box of a guitar synth. And for all I badmouthed generic moe teen girl characters in the previous paragraph... I actually really love a lot of characters that fit that mold. I'm really looking forward to Natsuki Karin and Hanakuma Chifuyu, and Karin's voice in particular I find to be very cute and charming; I think her nasally-ness gives her more character than a lot of other synths of a similar type. And she has a weird little demon rabbit plush companion thing! I just wish more vocal synths would be a bit more adventurous in their characterizations.

I've seen people respond to complaints like these- basically wishing for vocal synths to cater less to moe/anime/otaku/idol culture and not be seen as just a "weird anime thing" by the general public- by assuming that we want to go back to the days of like, Cantor and early Vocaloid; where you either had completely faceless and characterless synths, or at most a stock photo on the box. Or worse, that we are as actively disdainful of the fandom as EmVoice is. As if there's no room at all between "cutesy moe idol singer anime girl in a high school uniform" and "no-fun-allowed, business only, super professional virtual instrument with zero character". As if "anime" is the only art style capable of creating fun, appealing, interesting character designs (and yes I know "anime" isn't itself a distinct, coherent art style or anything, but just try and tell me you don't picture a certain type of artwork in your mind when I talk about it this way, in this context).

"Less moe synths" doesn't mean "no more character synths", it just means give me something new for a change! Give me character designs with actual character, not just marketability! Where the design decisions are made not based on what you think will most appeal to idol otaku or "whales", but on what makes the most sense for the voice and character you're trying to create. Hell, give me something that looks like the fella in my profile picture; I'd lose my shit in the best possible way!

On a completely different note, I am now downloading Myriad Harmony Assistant. Thanks for reminding me it was a thing, and that it's technically free.

I agree with this so much! Although I'm critical of companies that over-rely on their characters, I adore what personification adds to vocal synths. There's a boatload of untapped potential: music and visual arts have been inseparable for years, and putting effort into your visual concept only makes sense when things like music videos, album art, and costumes are so essential to the way we experience music. If companies saw characters as more than just safe marketing gimmicks, it can add a lot of depth and artistry to the product. The motivation is often shallow and cynical, but it doesn't need to be.

As if there's no room at all between "cutesy moe idol singer anime girl in a high school uniform" and "no-fun-allowed, business only, super professional virtual instrument with zero character".

This is a massive frustration of mine too. It often feels like companies are clueless as to how to appeal outside of an anime demographic with characters. Even in the fandom, there's the perception that non-anime marketing is always boring and unsuccessful. But we have massively popular virtual musicians like K/DA and Gorillaz, showing that there're diverse, successful artstyles outside of anime, and a global audience who adores characters. Miku was such a hit because, as a design, she's a jenga tower of popular otaku tropes with some LEDs on top (and not gonna lie, she's one of my favourites). She dramatically expanded the community by appealing to a new group of people, and there's no shortage of other subcultures which companies could tap into. They don't even need to be that creative, they just have to do a little research outside of their comfort zone.

Yet it feels like, in Miku's aftermath, most of the industry has become an ouroboros, aiming products at Miku fans again and again, trying to redigest her success.

But I'm not feeling hopeless. There's definitely companies willing to look beyond the tropes we're familiar with for inspiration, and I hope they continue to take risks. I think the current fandom would be very receptive to something new, even if it's as simple as a different style of anime.

 

[Deleted member 6215]

Not to say you can't dislike Project Sekai for your own reasons, but pushing a specific narrative of Miku and other Cryptonloids is very much not what it's trying to do orz

I don't really think I was trying to even apply that. I was trying to say that I'm tired of the whole idol thing. It's been done to death, and nothing is new. Bringing anything vocalsynth related doesn't add anything new.

Then again, I forgot I'm talking to people and no one can understand what I say because I have the social skills of a toddler...

 

[pico]

BubblyStar, is it just the "gacha idol game" concept that you're bored of? If that's the case, I understand where you're coming from.

If you haven't read the stories of Project Sekai though, I would give them a chance. It goes above and beyond what the other Craft Egg games have done with their hyper-marketable idol rhythm game franchises in my opinion. "Colorful Palette" removed Craft Egg from their name for a reason, they're really carving out a unique identity with this game, I think.

The mixed-gender groups, characters with real and relatable struggles, and the deep respect for the vocaloid music scene... Project Sekai doesn't paint any of their characters purely as "idols", even in the idol group, and the vocaloids are guardians for the kids going through the difficult and exciting times of their teen years. The "sekai" is a very obvious metaphor for how music is created. From a distance I can see how it looks like just another mobile game with gacha elements, but it's bringing in a lot of new fans and creating so much new music that so much of the community has grown to love. I saw a lot of people shrug it off at first because of the original characters, which was also my initial gut reaction, but I'm glad I gave it a second look because it's one of my favorite games now. And I haven't spent a dime.

Sorry for getting on my soapbox, if you don't like Project Sekai that's 100% okay of course, but I had to mention these things because they've been on my mind for so long, lol.


In regard to vocal synth projects, I think I'm on the young end of the active users here so I don't think I've been so worn out from synth tropes like older users are. I came into a scene populated by idol characters and accepted them wholeheartedly because I resonated so much with the music created with them. So while I don't feel disdain towards characters like KAFU and Koharu Rikka, I get where the frustration comes from and would also like to see more diversity in synth product offerings.

I can't say I see exactly where the demand for those products will start, but if SOLARIA is a success, I think it will bode well for the future of diverse vocal synthesis products, at least in the english speaking sphere. She has a character template, but she's also not a stereotype.

I'm glad that at least on the hobby level, there are a lot of experimental projects happening with AI synthesis and projects like Adachi Rei pushing the limits of what a synth can be.

 

[Dakuwux]

Unpopular opinions... Idk where to start...

I don't care, like at all about a desing of a Synth, their invented tastes, if the Synths that comes in the box are a couple... For me is all about the voice, how it sounds and what a producer could do with it, for me is the same with real singers, in fact I usually don't care about their lives and those kind of things (only mind if they can continue making music and things like health, you know, the basic human things but not much else) so when users and companies start talking about designs and tastes and those kind of things I disconect. Like when you are listening to music and not watching the music video you're hearing a voice and that's all that matters, when people in YT comments starts with things like "oh but Namine Ritsu is suposed to be a male of six years old" I think... who cares, I'm busy listening of one of the best UTAU out there.

I think it could be because all the drama that the spanish speaking fandom had with Bruno and Clara when they came out that brings me to the second opinion, well this is not that unpopular but I can't deal with the spanish speaking fandom (well I can't deal with ANY spanish fandom I'm into) the Bruno and Clara and then Maika period was like a trauma, latin american people insulting a spain based company formed by members who created vocaloid along with Yamaha (remember that Vocaloid is a colaboration between Yamaha and the Pompeu Fabra University based in Barcelona, Spain) for not making a latin american accent Vocaloid when it's like literally a miracle that we had not one, not two but three Vocaloid in spanish and all the three floped so hard, I have a prove of that since I own a physical copy of the "limited edition" of Maika I purchased in AN OFFER, they were numbered and I had the 88 I think. I remember latin americans being racist with spanish people and spanish people responding with more racism and then when giuseppe, that yeah was a little rude with people (maybe because we were a bunch of freak stupid teens and some of them only wanted a high pitch squirrel with a cute anime design making stupid comments about things we didn't understand and pirating, because in spanish speaking countries if you don't pirate things you're an idiot) but tried to look for funding for bringing new Vocaloids into V4 the response were that they want a high pitched latin american squirrel that doesn't sound like Clara when Clara's voice is very apropiate for current spanish pop music.

Also the failure of the spanish Vocaloids makes me think that vocal Synths will be always a niche thing and that may be the third unpopular opinion... maybe? Outside of our bubble there are like A TON of singers out there just look at talent shows, is so easy to find people that have a decent level of singing for anything and you can create a lot of effects with human voice that simply are easy to make than learning how to use a synth, that's maybe the reason of the general failure of western synths. Also apart from Solaria I didn't find any western Synth made after Vocaloid 4, I hope that at least Solaria gives us fans a decent and realistic synth and the company have enough success to keep working on another products.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk I guess (?

 

[MillyAqualine]

Unpopular opinions... Idk where to start...

I don't care, like at all about a desing of a Synth, their invented tastes, if the Synths that comes in the box are a couple... For me is all about the voice, how it sounds and what a producer could do with it, for me is the same with real singers, in fact I usually don't care about their lives and those kind of things (only mind if they can continue making music and things like health, you know, the basic human things but not much else) so when users and companies start talking about designs and tastes and those kind of things I disconect. Like when you are listening to music and not watching the music video you're hearing a voice and that's all that matters, when people in YT comments starts with things like "oh but Namine Ritsu is suposed to be a male of six years old" I think... who cares, I'm busy listening of one of the best UTAU out there.

I think it could be because all the drama that the spanish speaking fandom had with Bruno and Clara when they came out that brings me to the second opinion, well this is not that unpopular but I can't deal with the spanish speaking fandom (well I can't deal with ANY spanish fandom I'm into) the Bruno and Clara and then Maika period was like a trauma, latin american people insulting a spain based company formed by members who created vocaloid along with Yamaha (remember that Vocaloid is a colaboration between Yamaha and the Pompeu Fabra University based in Barcelona, Spain) for not making a latin american accent Vocaloid when it's like literally a miracle that we had not one, not two but three Vocaloid in spanish and all the three floped so hard, I have a prove of that since I own a physical copy of the "limited edition" of Maika I purchased in AN OFFER, they were numbered and I had the 88 I think. I remember latin americans being racist with spanish people and spanish people responding with more racism and then when giuseppe, that yeah was a little rude with people (maybe because we were a bunch of freak stupid teens and some of them only wanted a high pitch squirrel with a cute anime design making stupid comments about things we didn't understand and pirating, because in spanish speaking countries if you don't pirate things you're an idiot) but tried to look for funding for bringing new Vocaloids into V4 the response were that they want a high pitched latin american squirrel that doesn't sound like Clara when Clara's voice is very apropiate for current spanish pop music.

Also the failure of the spanish Vocaloids makes me think that vocal Synths will be always a niche thing and that may be the third unpopular opinion... maybe? Outside of our bubble there are like A TON of singers out there just look at talent shows, is so easy to find people that have a decent level of singing for anything and you can create a lot of effects with human voice that simply are easy to make than learning how to use a synth, that's maybe the reason of the general failure of western synths. Also apart from Solaria I didn't find any western Synth made after Vocaloid 4, I hope that at least Solaria gives us fans a decent and realistic synth and the company have enough success to keep working on another products.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk I guess (?

THANK.YOU.

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Especially with clara, I've seen loads of people complaining she wasn't "sounding like a real Spanish woman".... While for having been a few times in Spain (though I mainly stuck to Catalonia and Valencian regions so I may have more of a variant in mind due to Catalan and Valencian) most of the spanish women I've heard there (or even in movies when they were in Spanish ior dubbed in this language) were closer to Clara's voicetype o_o"'

The Giuseppe x fandom drama was one of the saddest moments, near behind the Bruno & Clara artwork's backlash (like wow, I'll never understand people having literally sent DEATH THREATS to the artists and will be forever bitter about it even though it's getting old) and it's even sadder considering it killed even much more the project Luan and Lucia could have formed... Without mentioning I was sad both for the VPs (especially Lucia's) and the fact Giuseppe was among my fave producers (even if I wasn't as vocal as onto other producers I still liked his works, especially the demo of Bruno & Clara that mixed fairly well vocal synth with typical modern Spanish-styled music and is to that day, still one of my top best fave demos & songs using synths)

It is also very unfair and ungrateful of people to have insulted Voctro while they did their best when they could (and as you pointed out, it's already amazing we had three vocals considering for how long we've waited for them, while English banks existed since Day 1) and tried to even appeal to some fans with a more anime design onto MAIKA... Moreover, the Latin-American accent always minds me to usual British English VS American English -also what about australian or other accents??

And about the high-pitched voice well... In spite of being a bit more mature than regular high-pitched vocals, RUBY had both the "youthful, higher-pitched" and American accent, yet some people still rejected her (then again it can also be a consequence of her whole drama because of miscommunication, racism on both sides etc) and even when people get what they want, there are times where it feels like they still tend to sleep on it... Sure if the product has flaws it's always good to point them out rather than ignore them, but acting like it's shitty after having complained about having the vocal you get well.... It may be understandable some companies and even some fans kinda want to give up on it ... then it just may be me so take it with a pinch of salt, but this is how I tended to perceive things back in the time

Due to my geographical situation, I may be more used to hear about tensions between Catalonia (as well as Basque country) and Castille (in which is Madrid) than about those between spain and Latin-american countries, but I do remember having already heard about those before entering the vocal synth fandom (mainly because of historical issues and other problems) so even though I am aware about it, I'm still ignorant compared with people who face it daily, but I did see prior to the Luan & Lucia incident such behaviours between a few fans of these countries in the community... Don"'t get me wrong, I do understand how people feel, but I still truly think screaming at each other and saying harmful, deep racist things won't help and worse, will discourage anyone to ever try more Spanish vocals, no matter the variant (thankfully it doesn't stop people to make their own banks for UTAU and now DeepVocal + NNSVS)


Just random thoughts to add, I apologize if they sound dumb OTL ;;

 

[Dakuwux]

THANK.YOU.

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Especially with clara, I've seen loads of people complaining she wasn't "sounding like a real Spanish woman".... While for having been a few times in Spain (though I mainly stuck to Catalonia and Valencian regions so I may have more of a variant in mind due to Catalan and Valencian) most of the spanish women I've heard there (or even in movies when they were in Spanish ior dubbed in this language) were closer to Clara's voicetype o_o"'

The Giuseppe x fandom drama was one of the saddest moments, near behind the Bruno & Clara artwork's backlash (like wow, I'll never understand people having literally sent DEATH THREATS to the artists and will be forever bitter about it even though it's getting old) and it's even sadder considering it killed even much more the project Luan and Lucia could have formed... Without mentioning I was sad both for the VPs (especially Lucia's) and the fact Giuseppe was among my fave producers (even if I wasn't as vocal as onto other producers I still liked his works, especially the demo of Bruno & Clara that mixed fairly well vocal synth with typical modern Spanish-styled music and is to that day, still one of my top best fave demos & songs using synths)

It is also very unfair and ungrateful of people to have insulted Voctro while they did their best when they could (and as you pointed out, it's already amazing we had three vocals considering for how long we've waited for them, while English banks existed since Day 1) and tried to even appeal to some fans with a more anime design onto MAIKA... Moreover, the Latin-American accent always minds me to usual British English VS American English -also what about australian or other accents??

And about the high-pitched voice well... In spite of being a bit more mature than regular high-pitched vocals, RUBY had both the "youthful, higher-pitched" and American accent, yet some people still rejected her (then again it can also be a consequence of her whole drama because of miscommunication, racism on both sides etc) and even when people get what they want, there are times where it feels like they still tend to sleep on it... Sure if the product has flaws it's always good to point them out rather than ignore them, but acting like it's shitty after having complained about having the vocal you get well.... It may be understandable some companies and even some fans kinda want to give up on it ... then it just may be me so take it with a pinch of salt, but this is how I tended to perceive things back in the time

Due to my geographical situation, I may be more used to hear about tensions between Catalonia (as well as Basque country) and Castille (in which is Madrid) than about those between spain and Latin-american countries, but I do remember having already heard about those before entering the vocal synth fandom (mainly because of historical issues and other problems) so even though I am aware about it, I'm still ignorant compared with people who face it daily, but I did see prior to the Luan & Lucia incident such behaviours between a few fans of these countries in the community... Don"'t get me wrong, I do understand how people feel, but I still truly think screaming at each other and saying harmful, deep racist things won't help and worse, will discourage anyone to ever try more Spanish vocals, no matter the variant (thankfully it doesn't stop people to make their own banks for UTAU and now DeepVocal + NNSVS)


Just random thoughts to add, I apologize if they sound dumb OTL ;;

Well the provider of Clara could be from Catalonia, I have the theory that spanish and even catalan vocaloids were developed since the start of the software because the co development between Yamaha and the Pompeu Fabra University and they were more than three voices but aside from that it was shamefull for the fandom to harsh Voctro Labs in that way, people tend to forget that Vocaloid and all the things surrounding singing synths are not exclusively an otaku/moe/freak thing, or at least it wasn't conceived that way.

About latin americans and spanish I don't think there are many issues outside of the internet in this regard, IDK why there are people in Spain racist towards latin american people but on internet fandoms are the opposite, for example some latin americans are upset for no reason at all about spanish dubs (because in all series there are 2 dubs, the latin american one which is more neutral since is used in all latin american and that's a lot of accents and the spanish one which is based more on the castilian accent) in series and movies and they go to attack the dub and then some spanish people start to being racist... it's a meme in the internet at this point bc of some lost in translation things of the spanish dubs since latin americans are more literal while the spanish ones are more interpretative, this reminds me a lot of that.

One thing I forgot is that Maika is an amazing vocaloid, it has a unique voice and with the extra phonemes you can make her sing in a lot of languages, I think for example it could do Greek and Hebrew very well. People just didn't realize the luck we had, I think everyone wants to hear a non fanmade synth in their mother languages, even a group of french fans tried to make a french vocaloid (another unpopular opinion is that I consider Alys a scam since they told us she would be a Vocaloid, then a CeVio, they made demos with UTAU plagiarizing Tell Your World in their first demo and then dissapeared a year ago leaving all their buyers without any support)

There are some people that just needs to complain about everything like the japanese characters are better and the western ones are crap, like the wannabe japanese people with everything Japan-related

 

[lIlI]

Other controversies aside, as a cute non-native English voicebank, I actually prefer IA to Maki! IA seems, in a CeVIO first, to have less engine noise, and a smoother sound. On top of that, her singing sounds more natural to my ears, particularly the way she emotes and delivers words. I hope the English fandom doesn't entirely ignore IA AI.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think if this exact voicebank had come out in different circumstances (released on Synth V, good boxart, anyone other than IA); she could have been a hit. A shame, really.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think if this exact voicebank had come out in different circumstances (released on Synth V, good boxart, anyone other than IA); she could have been a hit. A shame, really.

I kinda wish IA and ONE were either on SynthV or Vocaloid (in IA's case, she would be back on Vocaloid) at this point, considering how much of a clusterfuck CeVIO's PR has become. I'm also still burned over IA English only being on CeVIO. Even though I don't even use vocal synths? Don't ask me why lol.

 

[Youradveragevocaloidfan]

Here are some of my unpopular vocaloid opinions
1. I don't really find realistic tuning that interesting I mean mitchie m is a great producer and all but I prefer the more robotic stuff over the realistic stuff
2. I know everyone is gonna hate me for this but I'm not a huge fan of len kagamine. He's voice is... annoying to me and I don't like he's design I honestly just don't understand the hype.
3. I hate english covers. They usually sound off especially if you're used to the original I don't understand how they sometimes get more views than the original.
4. I don't understand why people hate project diva x I mean it only has 30 songs but they were really good songs like raspberry monster, sharing the world, the lost ones weeping the chaos mix was also pretty good ect
5. I literally hate ghost rule now I'm sick and tired of those "rating growls in ghost rule" videos popping up on my tik tok and YouTube fyp I'm tied of hearing it.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

1. I don't really find realistic tuning that interesting I mean mitchie m is a great producer and all but I prefer the more robotic stuff over the realistic stuff

I remember when V5 was being demo'd, a lot of people were impressed with the realism of the new V5 banks, but I was more interested in the effects that allowed you to make a Vocaloid sound more robotic/digitised within the engine rather than in an external DAW. ^^;

I enjoy realistic tuning, but some songs benefit more from that type of tuning than others. There are some songs out there that sound better with unrealistic/robotic tuning, or just wouldn't work with realistic tuning. (A lot of electronic music genres come to mind).

2. I know everyone is gonna hate me for this but I'm not a huge fan of len kagamine. He's voice is... annoying to me and I don't like he's design I honestly just don't understand the hype.

If I were to do a tier list of just the Cryptonloids, Len would definitely be at the bottom. I don't hate him or his voice, but not only does his voice type not appeal to me (I've never been one for "shota" voices), he's also less versatile genre-wise than people want to admit sometimes. (There's been a few times where Len's voice contrasts too much with certain songs to the point that it completely puts me off. I'm sorry, it's a bit hard to explain. orz)

 

[___]

Disliking realistic tuning is quite of a popular opinion, it's okay to have preferences but it's important to not undermine the amount of hard work and effort that goes into learning to tune in that way.

People have variety of opinions on Len, big amount of people feel strongly abot the cryptonloids in one way or another that liking or disliking any of them isn't particularly popular or unpopular of an opinion, and no one's gonna hate anyone for disliking any of them, but ultimately, to understand the hype, coming from a voice synth user, good amount ( especially the most recent ) vbs of his are high quality, easy to tune and I wouldn't at all say they're limiting in genre coverage, due to this he's often a go to for both professionals and beginners alongside Rin.

 

[peaches2217]

Disliking realistic tuning is quite of a popular opinion, it's okay to have preferences but it's important to not undermine the amount of hard work and effort that goes into learning to tune in that way.

People have variety of opinions on Len, big amount of people feel strongly abot the cryptonloids in one way or another that liking or disliking any of them isn't particularly popular or unpopular of an opinion, and no one's gonna hate anyone for disliking any of them, but ultimately, to understand the hype, coming from a voice synth user, good amount ( especially the most recent ) vbs of his are high quality, easy to tune and I wouldn't at all say they're limiting in genre coverage, due to this he's often a go to for both professionals and beginners alongside Rin.

Especially regarding the “realistic tuning”: I’ve touched on it before, but a lot of people just slap as much instability and vibrato as they possibly can on a song and call it “realistic” by merit of not being absolutely perfect. THAT’S the kind of “realistic” tuning that’s overrated. Genuine realistic tuning, where people have poured their heart and soul into making a cover sound lifelike and expressive? I don’t think it’s fair to lump efforts like those into the same category.

Regarding Len’s lack of versatility, I wouldn’t say that’s true at all honestly. People absolutely shove him into songs he’s not best suited for, I won’t deny that, but his V4X I’d say is just as versatile as Miku and all of her VBs.

On that topic, my own UO: Meiko’s not suited for pop. Like, at all. Depending on the VB used, she shines in ballads, electronica, soul, and rock/metal, but she’s just not a good pop vocal, and I’ve yet to hear an example of her used well in pop. Feel free to prove me wrong, I’m always open to new recommendations with my Queen

 

[___]

On that topic, my own UO: Meiko’s not suited for pop.

@crypton future media

seriously the more recent Meiko songs they've fetured on the HatsuneMiku channel are so unsuitable for vb like Meiko.

 

[aru ii]

I guess I have some unpopular oppinions

On topic of realistic tuning, I am not really a fan of the robotic tuning (I just got tired of it). I definitely enjoy listening and tuning pieces realistically. But, I would agree with @peaches2217 that just a lot of instability and vibrato can't be in the same category as realistic tuning (although than that means that my tuning can't be in that category either XD)

I guess a lot of people will disagree with me but, I don't like Gumi at all. Not that she is bad, her voice is pretty and some of her vbs are very hq but they all just sound generic to me. Although not generic in "kawaii V3 desu" way or in "regular girl voice", but in its own generic way. Its really hard to explain that. I just can't find that that unique trait in her voice that would make me enjoy listening to her.

AI voices are nice, but they kind of take the whole fun away from tuning. What's the point of tuning something, when it sounds better without any? I wasn't really able to attach to any besides KAFU, Sasara AI and Maki ENG

And lastly, I think that Ling has a very unique voice and I will defend that statement under any circumstances. But she is just not suitable for pop at all, and when people use her for pop songs, she just sounds like a generic V3 bank

Also its strange that people call Yanhe Chinese Flower, even though she was released before Flower

 

[AmazingStrange39]

Other controversies aside, as a cute non-native English voicebank, I actually prefer IA to Maki! IA seems, in a CeVIO first, to have less engine noise, and a smoother sound. On top of that, her singing sounds more natural to my ears, particularly the way she emotes and delivers words. I hope the English fandom doesn't entirely ignore IA AI.

Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I think if this exact voicebank had come out in different circumstances (released on Synth V, good boxart, anyone other than IA); she could have been a hit. A shame, really.

Meanwhile my favorite non-native English voicebank is Miku, who's often put down as one of the worst English voicebanks but to be honest...I love her. Both her V3 and V4 versions in fact; I'm kind of attached to her V3 version, but her V4 version is also pretty awesome IMO. Her accent is just so great to me, even if it's not "good" in the usual sense (fluent, native-sounding)? I love all the little mistakes and quirks in her voice, plus they both have great tones to me, with V3's sounding mellow and husky and V4's sounding youthful and energetic. They also work really nicely together, being probably the best English voicebanks for cross-synthesis.

Heck, this is getting to be less of an unpopular opinion these days but I love Miku English's boxart! I like the choice of "cool" over "cute" for once and the vibrant colors are absolutely gorgeous, plus she looks shiny and colorful? The sharper look is also just really cool to me. IMO Miku doesn't always have to be "moe" as cute as "moe" Miku is.

I also don't dislike robotic tuning. I occasionally spice up my own productions with autotune myself. I used to use pitch snap more often but as of now I think I like the effects of autotune better unless I'm going for a kz/Hachiouji-esque tuning style or something.

My Miku of choice, similar to producer Clean Tears (much of whose music I love), is Miku V3. Her Dark voicebank especially is gorgeous, but V3 lacks some of the strange noise and pronunciation V4X suffers from and can have a pretty nice tone; I also like her design (The boxart isn't my favorite but the character design itself is nice). I do prefer Miku V4 Solid though. Sometimes I miss EVEC but to me the lack of it simplifies tuning and allows it to be more adaptable to other vocals. As I mentioned before I also love her English version.

I guess I have some unpopular oppinions

On topic of realistic tuning, I am not really a fan of the robotic tuning (I just got tired of it). I definitely enjoy listening and tuning pieces realistically. But, I would agree with @peaches2217 that just a lot of instability and vibrato can't be in the same category as realistic tuning (although than that means that my tuning can't be in that category either XD)

I guess a lot of people will disagree with me but, I don't like Gumi at all. Not that she is bad, her voice is pretty and some of her vbs are very hq but they all just sound generic to me. Although not generic in "kawaii V3 desu" way or in "regular girl voice", but in its own generic way. Its really hard to explain that. I just can't find that that unique trait in her voice that would make me enjoy listening to her.

AI voices are nice, but they kind of take the whole fun away from tuning. What's the point of tuning something, when it sounds better without any? I wasn't really able to attach to any besides KAFU, Sasara AI and Maki ENG

And lastly, I think that Ling has a very unique voice and I will defend that statement under any circumstances. But she is just not suitable for pop at all, and when people use her for pop songs, she just sounds like a generic V3 bank

Also its strange that people call Yanhe Chinese Flower, even though she was released before Flower

I so agree with the AI point. Boy am I glad SynthV at least gives you the option of tuning yourself. I find AI tuning kind of nice but I also enjoy tuning itself so things like Neutrino can be kind of disappointing to me with the lack of editing outside of third-party software. One of my favorite AI banks myself is probably NAKUMO, I kinda like that Bump of Chicken/RADWIMPS-esque male singing voice.

I remember when V5 was being demo'd, a lot of people were impressed with the realism of the new V5 banks, but I was more interested in the effects that allowed you to make a Vocaloid sound more robotic/digitised within the engine rather than in an external DAW. ^^;

I enjoy realistic tuning, but some songs benefit more from that type of tuning than others. There are some songs out there that sound better with unrealistic/robotic tuning, or just wouldn't work with realistic tuning. (A lot of electronic music genres come to mind).


If I were to do a tier list of just the Cryptonloids, Len would definitely be at the bottom. I don't hate him or his voice, but not only does his voice type not appeal to me (I've never been one for "shota" voices), he's also less versatile genre-wise than people want to admit sometimes. (There's been a few times where Len's voice contrasts too much with certain songs to the point that it completely puts me off. I'm sorry, it's a bit hard to explain. orz)

yeah, i think rin is more realistic than len myself. i don't dislike len though i am a bit annoyed that he's "babied" so much by fans

I agree with this so much! Although I'm critical of companies that over-rely on their characters, I adore what personification adds to vocal synths. There's a boatload of untapped potential: music and visual arts have been inseparable for years, and putting effort into your visual concept only makes sense when things like music videos, album art, and costumes are so essential to the way we experience music. If companies saw characters as more than just safe marketing gimmicks, it can add a lot of depth and artistry to the product. The motivation is often shallow and cynical, but it doesn't need to be.



This is a massive frustration of mine too. It often feels like companies are clueless as to how to appeal outside of an anime demographic with characters. Even in the fandom, there's the perception that non-anime marketing is always boring and unsuccessful. But we have massively popular virtual musicians like K/DA and Gorillaz, showing that there're diverse, successful artstyles outside of anime, and a global audience who adores characters. Miku was such a hit because, as a design, she's a jenga tower of popular otaku tropes with some LEDs on top (and not gonna lie, she's one of my favourites). She dramatically expanded the community by appealing to a new group of people, and there's no shortage of other subcultures which companies could tap into. They don't even need to be that creative, they just have to do a little research outside of their comfort zone.

Yet it feels like, in Miku's aftermath, most of the industry has become an ouroboros, aiming products at Miku fans again and again, trying to redigest her success.

But I'm not feeling hopeless. There's definitely companies willing to look beyond the tropes we're familiar with for inspiration, and I hope they continue to take risks. I think the current fandom would be very receptive to something new, even if it's as simple as a different style of anime.

If only they'd let Miku be Miku. I'm a huge fan of Miku but the "Miku formula" does get annoying.

Disliking realistic tuning is quite of a popular opinion, it's okay to have preferences but it's important to not undermine the amount of hard work and effort that goes into learning to tune in that way.

People have variety of opinions on Len, big amount of people feel strongly abot the cryptonloids in one way or another that liking or disliking any of them isn't particularly popular or unpopular of an opinion, and no one's gonna hate anyone for disliking any of them, but ultimately, to understand the hype, coming from a voice synth user, good amount ( especially the most recent ) vbs of his are high quality, easy to tune and I wouldn't at all say they're limiting in genre coverage, due to this he's often a go to for both professionals and beginners alongside Rin.

Tbh I just wouldn't call Len's voice realistic, unless you're talking about it being realistic to an anime "young boy" voice. Speaking of Len, I kind of like his English voicebank even if it's not quite as powerful as some expected and sounds a bit "girlier" than his usual vocal. It sounds nice.

I think the "high-pitch" thing is also because a lot of people say pitch when they mean timbre/tone (Miku's timbre is very high in pretty much all her banks- even dark sounds pretty moe)

right, avanna on the other hand has a pretty low timbre

 

[AmazingStrange39]

I don't really have that many opinions as such except that I actually like Miku V3 English. Sure, the accent is stronger than V4 but the tone of her voice can be good for certain songs in terms of aesthetic, which is something I feel like most people don't really see

DUUUDE

V3 ENGLISH MIKU SQUAD

yes yeees! the tone difference is a big thing imo. fiddling with xsy is tons of fun

 

[WyndReed]

Len is the most versatile male japanese vocaloid.