Neither of the Kagamines are particularly faithful to Asami Shimoda, however, being unfaithful to a voice provider doesn't mean you can't get convincingly human vocals out of them.
Unpopular Opinions
- Thread starter TheStarPalace
- Start date
On the subject of Len... Len V4x Power > Rin V4x Power (I won't compare their softer banks because I never touch Len's, lol). This is coming from someone who "mains" them as her main Vocaloids. I love Rin, don't get me wrong; she's my favorite overall by an admittedly small margin, but I find their her power vocals are really wimpy in comparison to Len. Whereas Len maintains his strength in his higher register, Rin's voice starts to become feeble and kind of annoying to work with. It feels like I have to do extra to make her maintain power which... I don't think I should have to do for a power bank??
Gonna have to disagree on Rin being more realistic than Len--speaking again as someone who uses them both, Rin sounds more "electronic" (which is what I love about her) than Len does.
Also I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean about him being "babied" by fans--I wish I saw him being treated like that more often; all I ever see is "haha stinky rat-boy pervert Len shitpost memelord" kind of stuff and by god is it annoying. It's always either that, or borderline creepy sh*tac*n fuel which is ew, um... no thanks!
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After using SynthV exclusively for a week straight, I think I'm ready to voice my opinion on some stuff regarding it.
My first impression was all well and good, but going into it a little more, I'm of the opinion that it's a program with both a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling. that's not to say you can't get good results out of SynthV, but you're limited by both the parameters' effectiveness, the capabilities/quality of the voicebanks, and the engine itself. The engine is by no means poor, but it's also wildly hit-or-miss when it comes to voicebanks and noise.
Most of my experience is with AI banks so I'm only going off of what I've experienced, but there is an inherent artificiality present in their voices, more so than any other synths I've used. Untuned, there is not much to them at all, and when I compared the pitch of SynthV banks to Vocaloid banks, the former are completely devoid of any deviation in pitch - singing like a literal robot. Paired with it's engine noise and you're left with a quite... mediocre sounding voicebank that has more in common with the sound of an UTAU than an AI bank. Vocaloid has a much easier time sounding normal while untuned as opposed to SynthV, despite its deviations in pitch.
regarding the flat pitch (raw output)
My first impression was all well and good, but going into it a little more, I'm of the opinion that it's a program with both a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling. that's not to say you can't get good results out of SynthV, but you're limited by both the parameters' effectiveness, the capabilities/quality of the voicebanks, and the engine itself. The engine is by no means poor, but it's also wildly hit-or-miss when it comes to voicebanks and noise.
Most of my experience is with AI banks so I'm only going off of what I've experienced, but there is an inherent artificiality present in their voices, more so than any other synths I've used. Untuned, there is not much to them at all, and when I compared the pitch of SynthV banks to Vocaloid banks, the former are completely devoid of any deviation in pitch - singing like a literal robot. Paired with it's engine noise and you're left with a quite... mediocre sounding voicebank that has more in common with the sound of an UTAU than an AI bank. Vocaloid has a much easier time sounding normal while untuned as opposed to SynthV, despite its deviations in pitch.
regarding the flat pitch (raw output)
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i'm talking about the people who are fangirls i guess? the ones that almost treat him like a favorite celebrity. not that there's anything necessarily bad about that
well, what i mean is len sounds voice acted
also maybe "babied" was a strong word. i probably picked it up from some complaints against miku back in the day.
i've never really been the hugest fan of len's tone myself although i kinda like his english voicebank? between the tones of the two, at least in japanese i like rin better
on an unrelated note her voice brings up the image of a lemon for me for some reason even though she's supposed to be associated with oranges
yeah, len's power bank is high quality for sure.
tangent: i wonder how convincingly male len can sound with gender factor
len-der factor? yeah i dunno
Ohh, I see what you mean now! Yeah--nothing inherently bad about it unless they get extreme about it!
It's funny that you say that, because I really get what you mean! Her voice feels very "tangy" to me if that makes sense!
And unpopular opinion to make sure I don't throw things off topic; I'm also not a huge fan of Project Sekai. It was for a little while but it ended up feeling very stale to me and I'm not a huge fan of the gacha concept being used for a rhythm game.
yeah, same here. i don't like how it's this visual novel drama that overshadows the virtual singers? the idea of a different version of them for each sekai is pretty cool though, and the 2.5d models are pretty cool
I'm just gonna throw out that Project Sekai's story is really great, the artworks are fantastic, the rythm game aspect is super fun and you can really see the care that goes into the 3D MV's. But man, the gacha has some HORRIBLE rates, and it's so deceiving since it doesn't look bad at first glance, but after playing for a year I can definitely say that almost every single 10 pull will only have one 3 star or one 4 star. That's it. You get so little for the time you spend grinding it's ridiculous. They almost make it obvious that they want you to be frustrated and spend money, and yeah.. that's not a good look. And that's coming from me, someone who loves gacha games and plays way too many. The time spent for what you get is just not worth it, definitely a whale game and I hate that.
Idk this might be a bit of a take but there's something about Tsuina's design that always rubbed me the wrong way that makes me not particularly excited for her SynthV voice... I think it just gives me weird otaku demographic vibes that the Tohoku girls seem to be plagued with. I'm sure she'll sound fine but yeah.
I'm not a fan of Seika's design either but I mostly just don't like the green Idolmaster office assistant reject look. Kinda just wish we get a SynthV JP AI character that both looks and sounds really good to me.
I'm not a fan of Seika's design either but I mostly just don't like the green Idolmaster office assistant reject look. Kinda just wish we get a SynthV JP AI character that both looks and sounds really good to me.
I think Tsuina's design by itself is fine, but the way her artist draws her makes me incredibly uncomfortable (if you look close enough at pretty much any official art you can see why). which just strikes me as really unfortunate because I like pretty much everything else about her. Her twitter also is not exempt from the same criticisms that the Tohoku/Meika/Una twitters are subject to, because she does the same thing they do/did (I'm guessing lack of popularity/awareness from the Western community eye has let her slip under the radar more than the others?).
I'm looking forward to her Synth V banks since I do like her voice and as a character and despite how... unfortunate her creator seems to be, Tsuina as a character and her story are not inherently problematic. (The official charms from AHS that don't involve a gross addition to her designs are very cute! I'd be very happy to get them if I had the money.) (Though this also was the case with the Tohokus where it's still okay to like them as characters even to this day [so long as they aren't financially supported], but at least Tsuina's confirmed she's not interested in NFTs.........)
I just really wish things weren't like this orz. I want to freely like any vocal synth character without worrying if the people behind them subject them to gross things or not.
I'm looking forward to her Synth V banks since I do like her voice and as a character and despite how... unfortunate her creator seems to be, Tsuina as a character and her story are not inherently problematic. (The official charms from AHS that don't involve a gross addition to her designs are very cute! I'd be very happy to get them if I had the money.) (Though this also was the case with the Tohokus where it's still okay to like them as characters even to this day [so long as they aren't financially supported], but at least Tsuina's confirmed she's not interested in NFTs.........)
I just really wish things weren't like this orz. I want to freely like any vocal synth character without worrying if the people behind them subject them to gross things or not.
It's kind of like the Medium5 girls, I think: ATDan is hella problematic in his portrayal of Haiyi in particular, but they inherently aren't problematic, in their designs or their characterization. Tsuina and the Medium5 girls thankfully don't fall into the pit-traps that Zunko's company is putting their characters through: separate them from their creators, and they're perfectly wholesome. I'm looking forward to Tsuina getting more attention so that more similarly wholesome portrayals of her can take root and flourish!
When it comes to companies, I'm pretty lenient. I expect a certain level of apathy towards ethics that comes from the necessity of making money. However, there's a low bar of morality I do expect companies to hit. When they show their hand through who they choose to market their underage characters to, is when I stop supporting them financially. Whether its implicitly through repeatedly hiring people who openly sexualise minors, or explicitly through the content they sell and retweet. My unpopular opinion is that I also hold the companies who choose to publish and collaborate with them culpable, as they are aware of who they're working with, and who they're supporting. This remains my biggest criticism of CeVIO and Synth V.
Here's one that's been on my mind for a while and I think is quite unpopular....I really like CeVIO and IA AI
There are a lot of reasons CeVIO wouldn't be someone's cup of tea, but it kinda bothers me when I see a CeVIO announcement followed by people I follow/see around saying it "would've been better as a SynthV." Personally, I am really happy that there are more synths around instead of just one dominating synth, and I think CeVIO has always been capable of having some really amazing results despite its shortcomings compared to other synths like Vocaloid and SynthV. I've always felt CeVIO had a lot of potential, but lots of people, myself included, do not take the proper time to sit with it and learn it to an extent to make amazing results. Some I can really think of are songs by out of service with ONE, which never fail to impress me.
I also really, really like IA AI. IA has always been my all-time favorite, and I was really excited for IA AI when she was announced, and that hasn't changed. I don't think she's too different from the core of IA, partially because I went in knowing there was no way she'd be an exact 1:1 with IA's original Vocaloid voicebank--nor does she have to be. I personally compare her to IA as a whole, who isn't just the soft/airy tone of IA's original VB but also the pretty different powerful tone of IA ROCKS, and from the demos, I like that she's not too soft and not too powerful, she sits perfectly in the middle and that makes her more versatile.
Tone-wise, I think she's very much the same IA I know and love. I think it's hard to tell hearing two covers solely using one VB because they aren't meant to show the similarity, but I think Pray For Real does a really good job of showing how similar you can get IA Vocaloid and IA English C's tones. I remember when the song first released, it really tripped me up because I could only tell them apart because of engine noise and CeVIO accents that came through at times.
Bit ramble-y, but these were on my mind, espeially thinking back to Yukari Rei's release and seeing people not like her because she "wasn't different enough to justify buying" but IA isn't the same enough to be liked either....so I concluded people just didn't like CeVIO, because I genuinely do not understand it when I think about it. I like both and don't feel that they're too much the same or different than their Vocaloid counterparts.
(Genuinely, if someone can explain in-depth why they dislike CeVIO/Yukari Rei/IA AI, I would greatly appreciate that. I feel like everyone's reasons I've been seeing are so vague and it confuses me even more so I shrug it off as engine noise or purely preference)
And to throw in another opinion, I really wish SynthV had actual trials instead of or alongside Lite versions. Dunno how unpopular this is, but as someone who has already sunk in A LOT of money into synths, I don't like my "testing a VB" ability to be done with a stripped down Lite VB, it doesn't really tell me anything about the VB at all except if I like the voice. I really like usages of Maki's Japanese AI, but touching her Lite at all makes me not want to get her for various reasons, and it's like...I'm either stuck hoping the issues I have are fixed in the full version, listening to more usages to try and tell if they are, or asking a friend who has the full version to tell if they are fixed--so then, what's the point of me using the Lite version? I'll still be going in more or less blind and hoping I like using the VB.
Don't get me wrong, I DO think Lite versions have their place. They're great for beginners, hobbyists who don't care to get the Full VB/can't afford it, etc., but as someone who does buy VBs, I would really, really love the option of a Full VB trial alongside Lite versions. I don't think I can properly judge if I enjoy working with the VB if I'm not even working with the Full VB, but maybe that's just me
There are a lot of reasons CeVIO wouldn't be someone's cup of tea, but it kinda bothers me when I see a CeVIO announcement followed by people I follow/see around saying it "would've been better as a SynthV." Personally, I am really happy that there are more synths around instead of just one dominating synth, and I think CeVIO has always been capable of having some really amazing results despite its shortcomings compared to other synths like Vocaloid and SynthV. I've always felt CeVIO had a lot of potential, but lots of people, myself included, do not take the proper time to sit with it and learn it to an extent to make amazing results. Some I can really think of are songs by out of service with ONE, which never fail to impress me.
I also really, really like IA AI. IA has always been my all-time favorite, and I was really excited for IA AI when she was announced, and that hasn't changed. I don't think she's too different from the core of IA, partially because I went in knowing there was no way she'd be an exact 1:1 with IA's original Vocaloid voicebank--nor does she have to be. I personally compare her to IA as a whole, who isn't just the soft/airy tone of IA's original VB but also the pretty different powerful tone of IA ROCKS, and from the demos, I like that she's not too soft and not too powerful, she sits perfectly in the middle and that makes her more versatile.
Tone-wise, I think she's very much the same IA I know and love. I think it's hard to tell hearing two covers solely using one VB because they aren't meant to show the similarity, but I think Pray For Real does a really good job of showing how similar you can get IA Vocaloid and IA English C's tones. I remember when the song first released, it really tripped me up because I could only tell them apart because of engine noise and CeVIO accents that came through at times.
Bit ramble-y, but these were on my mind, espeially thinking back to Yukari Rei's release and seeing people not like her because she "wasn't different enough to justify buying" but IA isn't the same enough to be liked either....so I concluded people just didn't like CeVIO, because I genuinely do not understand it when I think about it. I like both and don't feel that they're too much the same or different than their Vocaloid counterparts.
And to throw in another opinion, I really wish SynthV had actual trials instead of or alongside Lite versions. Dunno how unpopular this is, but as someone who has already sunk in A LOT of money into synths, I don't like my "testing a VB" ability to be done with a stripped down Lite VB, it doesn't really tell me anything about the VB at all except if I like the voice. I really like usages of Maki's Japanese AI, but touching her Lite at all makes me not want to get her for various reasons, and it's like...I'm either stuck hoping the issues I have are fixed in the full version, listening to more usages to try and tell if they are, or asking a friend who has the full version to tell if they are fixed--so then, what's the point of me using the Lite version? I'll still be going in more or less blind and hoping I like using the VB.
Don't get me wrong, I DO think Lite versions have their place. They're great for beginners, hobbyists who don't care to get the Full VB/can't afford it, etc., but as someone who does buy VBs, I would really, really love the option of a Full VB trial alongside Lite versions. I don't think I can properly judge if I enjoy working with the VB if I'm not even working with the Full VB, but maybe that's just me
I have been feeling the same way! I like that the pressure’s off to hurry up and use them before the trial runs out, but the lite versions have a lot of clarity issues among other things (i.e. limited range) so I don’t find them to really help me in making a purchasing decision? Like, maybe the issues I’m having might be fixed in the full version, but until I use the full version, I won’t know for sure which doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t want to drop $100+ on something that could actually end up being a mess.
I remember having that issue with Maki’s AI English and had to ask Peaches (who owns her full banks) if the issues weren’t present in the full and how the range is on the full bank. (Which, is great for me, but if you’re looking to buy a voicebank and don’t have someone who can tell you if this issues you’re encountering are fixed in the full version of the bank that’s kind of a problem.)
(Similarly, I don’t enjoy using Rikka’s lite at all because of how muffled and noisy her lite banks are, same for the Kotonoha’s. If I’m to be blunt, the lite banks sound like lower MQ UTAU, which doesn’t really make want to spend on their full banks and makes me want to find an UTAU that sounds like them instead, haha.)
So in other words, I am ALL for trials + lites! You summed up my feelings about working with lite banks perfectly in your last sentence!
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I het you so much. I had similar feelings towards CeVIO, but was kind of afraid to share them here because people would think that my explanation to why I like CeVIO and especially AI would lack reason. I felt that way the most when Kafu was in development. At first I didn’t pay much attention to Kafu because I thought that her design was boring and I wasn’t interested in CeVIO as a whole. But the one of her demos appeared in my recommendations and I really liked her voice. I became really exited for her release and went to look into her thread, but every single post there was talking about how awful she sounded.There was so much criticism towards her, that I kind of became ashamed to like her, because people would think that I got “bad taste”.Yes, it’skind of frustrating that she is so high pitched, but hey… you can just lower her 2 semitones down and she will sound perfect (I honestly really like that muffles of hers, that bothered everyone so much).
Yukari and Kafu made people dislike CeVIO AI so much, that when there is a vb that,s actually an improvement, people just ignore it. Sasara AI is an example of this. Sasara sounds amaizing, and is an actual improvement over her original vb. And since people couldn’t really find her to be horrible, she was left unnoticed here.
And on the topic of IA & ONE AI. Although I do like IA’s vocaloid vb more, I can still say that IA AI is a nice addition rather than a replacement for the original IA. But ONE does sound a bit worse than her CCS vb.
I dislike Yukari Rei because she's hands down, a voicebank with the worst pitching issues I've ever heard, she's horrid at holding pitch and not many bother fixing it and I know it's not something I'd wanna spend time on either hence I don't own her lol
And that's my main complaint about Cevio AI too, terrible pitch control is a consistent issue within the editor and at certain points, it's just inexcusable and it has some voicebanks that, imo, have no business being commercial products with the state they're in ( Yukari Rei, ONE AI ).
It's not Cevio as a whole I have problem with, like....CS7 seemed like good opportunity to quickly grab a cheap loid ( especially with the color series around ) and I could forgive some of it's shortcomings due to that but as it became more expensive with Cevio AI ( at least good chunk of the vbs being sold )....well...I didn't feel like the improvements were big enough, I could no longer justify the minimal editing options the editor offered and it introduced a new flaw devaluing the editor as a whole...it's not something I could in a good faith recommend anymore.
There is of course the whole engine noise thing but I don't think that needs any expanding on.
As for AI IA, she's honestly a vb I don't have whole a lot issues with and I do agree the community has precovienced biases no matter what ( in similar vain, I feel like people really overblow SynthV's quality ) and this is one of the times where it's showed. But I'd still recommend her Vocaloid vb over the Cevio one.
This is a huge part of it for me. I could forgive the original CeVIO’s shortcomings because $100 got me the song editor and two Color Series vocals. CeVIO AI has the exact same shortcomings, on top of painfully warbley pitch in most of its vocals which can’t really be fixed without extensive editing outside of the editor… and now they charge just as much as Vocaloid and SynthV. There’s other issues which Patuk touched upon, but I felt that one especially gets overlooked a lot.
Ah, I really feel ya!! I've started keeping a bit more quiet just because I'm definitely in that phase of feeling really bad for liking IA AI wen everyone seems to dislike her, and word their opinions very harshly, so I kinda get left feeling like I"m not seeing something or I shouldn't like IA AI at all.
And not even kidding, I'd been tryna keep up with news again for a while now, and up until a couple weeks ago, I had NO IDEA Sasara AI Song was a thing, no one ever talked about it and I had only seen the demo for her Talk, so imagine my surprise seeing her in my Youtube recommended one day LOL
Thank you both for the explanations, that's completely understandable.
I was pretty disappointed seeing the price jump for CeVIO AI--the price of IA Song alone is the same price I paid when I got IA Englis C's starter pack, and though I...totally still bought IA AI starter, I definitely was not able to afford the duo pack in one go so I have to get English AI sometime in the future. And I've never really explored seeing about CeVIO AI's options too much, so hoping there'll at least be something more to comapre when I get my CeVIO AI Song Editor.
I just don’t like AI banks very much. They can sound more realistic, but every upload with Kafu I hear sounds the same and its really frustrating. I’m used to listening to Miku uploads and while they all sound like Miku they all have something unique that sets them apart. It’s almost like the voca synth community is devolving back into it’s all about the character instead of the voicebank is an instrument that can be used in many different ways because of the limitations of AI banks. There’s just something lacking and I can’t fully explain it.
That’s honestly my issue with it as well. AI banks have a more realistic sound depending on the bank, but they’re so limited in what they can do compared to other synths. You can’t push them too far in any direction. Ultimately, you have to settle, and as a result every usage sounds exactly the same. I like certain AI banks and I think they’re wonderful when used correctly or within the bank’s strengths (LiveP’s “Jiko-Shokai” is an excellent example), but they’re so often just… not.