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Unpopular Opinions

DefiantKitsune

Lonely kanon fan
Apr 11, 2018
622
Even with the growl parameter, hacking has proven that even V2s can use it because it's literally just that, a parameter:
I don't believe this is real because growl is NOT just a parameter, it requires new recordings. They literally had to find a new VP to make them so they could port miki and Yuki.

...on a related note, I have heard that not all v2 banks actually work properly in v5, with some really bugging out....
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
326
I'm getting really tired of people saying SynthV, CeVIO, and V6 are worse than NNSVS; even just comparing them is frustrating to see. NNSVS is cool and fun, I love it being an open source alternative for fan creations...but saying it's better in any form than commercial products that receive thousands of dollars in funding and are acutely optimized is really tiresome.
 

Prism

Enthusiast
Jul 18, 2019
525
I don't believe this is real because growl is NOT just a parameter, it requires new recordings. They literally had to find a new VP to make them so they could port miki and Yuki.

...on a related note, I have heard that not all v2 banks actually work properly in v5, with some really bugging out....
In the v4 dev kit there's stock growl samples. Internet co v4 updates all use these stock samples. Apparently it is really hard to record so most banks use the stock samples.This has been confirmed by Dex and Daina's voice providers.
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
326
In the v4 dev kit there's stock growl samples. Internet co v4 updates all use these stock samples. Apparently it is really hard to record so most banks use the stock samples.This has been confirmed by Dex and Daina's voice providers.
This is true, but there's no way to add growl samples to V2 banks.

HOWEVER, if you cross-synth a V4 and V2 vb with the V4 vb being the base, you can use growl.
 
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Tortoiseshel

Aspiring Fan
Aug 23, 2021
54
I'm getting really tired of people saying SynthV, CeVIO, and V6 are worse than NNSVS; even just comparing them is frustrating to see. NNSVS is cool and fun, I love it being an open source alternative for fan creations...but saying it's better in any form than commercial products that receive thousands of dollars in funding and are acutely optimized is really tiresome.
I guess it depends on what your barometer for "better" is. Just in terms of audio output? Yeah, NNSVS still has a long way to go before it's of comparable quality with any of the big hitters. But for some people (like me tbh...), just the fact that it's free and open source does make it better in certain ways.
 

Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
326
I guess it depends on what your barometer for "better" is. Just in terms of audio output? Yeah, NNSVS still has a long way to go before it's of comparable quality with any of the big hitters. But for some people (like me tbh...), just the fact that it's free and open source does make it better in certain ways.
I've seen people compare the audio output and their reasoning is "it's free and open source". Those are two different comparisons...
 
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AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
In the v4 dev kit there's stock growl samples. Internet co v4 updates all use these stock samples. Apparently it is really hard to record so most banks use the stock samples.This has been confirmed by Dex and Daina's voice providers.
I think Miku has her own growl (if you go into her DDB there's a sample that sounds like her growling) and I wouldn't be surprised if Fukase JP Normal did too, considering how his growl sounds

I much prefer uniqueness and character as a vocal-synth trait to realism. Some AI vocals are quite characteristic and have a unique sound (e.g. KAFU and Chis-A), but many of them aim so hard for realism that they lose some distinctiveness. Miku is (likely intentionally) pretty unrealistic for the most part, but I love using her and I love her unique sound. Also, has anyone else noticed that AI vocals often sound less "full" than the more standard ones, maybe a bit more thin/tinny?

I'm also not as hard-wired toward power vocals as much of the fanbase. Shouty vocals sound awesome, it's true, but while everyone seems to be reaching for whoever they can make scream the loudest, I've been using Miku. (Making Miku Solid shout is fun though.) My point is, soft and "neutral" (e.g. Miku Original, Kaito Straight) vocals are just as appealing, and many singers will have both powerful and soft parts in their songs. (Unless you can effectively make her sing softly, making Flower sing a soft piano ballad probably isn't a good idea.)

Androgynous vocals are cool and all, but very feminine and masculine vocals are too! I'd really like to see another Big Al-type vocal someday...

If they do make a Miku AI, since it likely wouldn't sound Miku-like enough with the straightforward path, I wouldn't mind if they took the approach that the Quadimension "Plus" vocals do with training her on tuning from her regular voicebank. I think that'd be the best option for her, because her entire thing is her unique and characteristic sound and without that she might just be "Saki-loid".
 

Prism

Enthusiast
Jul 18, 2019
525
I much prefer uniqueness and character as a vocal-synth trait to realism. Some AI vocals are quite characteristic and have a unique sound (e.g. KAFU and Chis-A), but many of them aim so hard for realism that they lose some distinctiveness. Miku is (likely intentionally) pretty unrealistic for the most part, but I love using her and I love her unique sound. Also, has anyone else noticed that AI vocals often sound less "full" than the more standard ones, maybe a bit more thin/tinny?

I'm also not as hard-wired toward power vocals as much of the fanbase. Shouty vocals sound awesome, it's true, but while everyone seems to be reaching for whoever they can make scream the loudest, I've been using Miku. (Making Miku Solid shout is fun though.) My point is, soft and "neutral" (e.g. Miku Original, Kaito Straight) vocals are just as appealing, and many singers will have both powerful and soft parts in their songs. (Unless you have V5 to effectively make her sing softly, making Flower sing a soft piano ballad probably isn't a good idea.)

Androgynous vocals are cool and all, but very feminine and masculine vocals are too! I'd really like to see another Big Al-type vocal someday...Youthful-but-still-masculine vocals like Yohioloid and Kevin are cool too, as are deep-but-still-feminine ones like Eleanor Forte and AVANNA. Sometimes I kinda like knowing the gender of the singer I'm listening to...

If they do make a Miku AI, since it likely wouldn't sound Miku-like enough with the straightforward path, I wouldn't mind if they took the approach that the Quadimension "Plus" vocals do with training her on tuning from her regular voicebank. I think that'd be the best option for her, because her entire thing is her unique and characteristic sound and without that she might just be "Saki-loid".
Quadimension's ai plus banks aren't trained on the tuned renders of the synth v voice banks, rather they are trained on the recorded samples that make up the voice bank. Thinking about it as encoding the voice bank in ai rather than standard synthesis. I hope that makes sense. To my knowledge there hasn't been a released ai singer trained on tuned vsqs. With how crypton likes to reuse Miku v2s original recordings for all her voice banks I wonder how an ai trained on it would sound. I feel like it might be the way to get the purest form of Miku because its not being distorted by a sampler. I honestly don't think nt sounds like any of the original characters they all sound distorted in a unappealing way that makes it hard to use them over their vocaloid version.
 

AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
Quadimension's ai plus banks aren't trained on the tuned renders of the synth v voice banks, rather they are trained on the recorded samples that make up the voice bank. Thinking about it as encoding the voice bank in ai rather than standard synthesis. I hope that makes sense. To my knowledge there hasn't been a released ai singer trained on tuned vsqs. With how crypton likes to reuse Miku v2s original recordings for all her voice banks I wonder how an ai trained on it would sound. I feel like it might be the way to get the purest form of Miku because its not being distorted by a sampler. I honestly don't think nt sounds like any of the original characters they all sound distorted in a unappealing way that makes it hard to use them over their vocaloid version.
Ohh, I see. I thought it specifically had to be singing samples so I assumed otherwise

Yeah, I personally prefer the way the Cryptonloids' Vocaloid versions sound. Especially her V3 and V4, in Miku's case (With Luka I prefer her V2 and Rin/Len's V2s had actual "original" voicebanks)

On that note, I do wonder why they removed Rin and Len's original voicebanks...were Original and Power too similar or something?

Could be the opposite of Miku's case, where Light and Vivid were removed because they were too similar to each other but Original is distinctive enough that it stays
 
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aru ii

Your Neighborhood Tianyi Enthusiast!
Feb 12, 2021
1,017
VOCALOID4 Editor
I'm getting really tired of people saying SynthV, CeVIO, and V6 are worse than NNSVS; even just comparing them is frustrating to see. NNSVS is cool and fun, I love it being an open source alternative for fan creations...but saying it's better in any form than commercial products that receive thousands of dollars in funding and are acutely optimized is really tiresome.
people say that nnsvs is better then sv, cai and v6? lol, i have only seen people shit on nnsvs
 
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Infoholic

CEO of Chorical, LLC.
Mar 26, 2018
326
Quadimension's ai plus banks aren't trained on the tuned renders of the synth v voice banks, rather they are trained on the recorded samples that make up the voice bank. Thinking about it as encoding the voice bank in ai rather than standard synthesis. I hope that makes sense. To my knowledge there hasn't been a released ai singer trained on tuned vsqs. With how crypton likes to reuse Miku v2s original recordings for all her voice banks I wonder how an ai trained on it would sound. I feel like it might be the way to get the purest form of Miku because its not being distorted by a sampler. I honestly don't think nt sounds like any of the original characters they all sound distorted in a unappealing way that makes it hard to use them over their vocaloid version.
I'm fairly certain they're trained on a mix of the original samples, untuned renders from SV Basic, and other filler data.
 

MillyAqualine

Hardcore Fan
Apr 11, 2018
286
30
I don't think so, personally... I miss Miku Vivid and Light so much;;;; Miku Solid is excellent for a more grounded tone, but nothing can replace the brightness and liveliness of Vivid and Light.
And I'd say Vivid is such a fitting append (like Solid is and so does the rest) I feel like if they were ever do an AI version of Miku using the same trick as Quadimension did with the MEDIUM5, they should really rely on the recordings used for Vivid
 

AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
And I'd say Vivid is such a fitting append (like Solid is and so does the rest) I feel like if they were ever do an AI version of Miku using the same trick as Quadimension did with the MEDIUM5, they should really rely on the recordings used for Vivid
What if they did all her appends though?

Miku would finally get English and Chinese Appends... (In English's case she has two very different English voicebanks so we're not griping for the former lol)

It'd take a really long time but it'd keep up with Miku's tendency to come in a package deal since her original V2 Appends came out

Gumi's a weird case because her other voicebanks are sold separately/individually while Miku generally comes with all of them (except Light and Vivid...and Soft and Solid, in NT's case)
 
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AmazingStrange39

Miku-Avanna-Gumi enthusiast
May 23, 2019
328
It's been 10 years and that decade really dated the song, it's hilariously dramatic and plays on old tired tropes *cough*truck-kun*cough*, in other words "Reboot" is unintentionally funny to me.
Now that I think of it I do remember that anime characters tend to be hit by trucks fairly frequently

That song got pretty darn close to making me cry though...
 

Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
728
Although I do keep up with CeVIO as a voice synth, to this day I've never been a fan of its engine noise, not even with its AI version or Voicesona. CeVIO's engine noise sounds "buzzy" to me in a way that can be really unpleasant to my ears in some banks. Just to use the 1st Place girls as examples, ONE doesn't have it too bad, but in IA English, it can get unbearable unless you try to mix it out in post-production, and even then you can't always remove it completely. (Perhaps it's because I can hear the issues with IA English more as a native English speaker compared to Japanese-only ONE, but still).

In the days before voice synths started popping up everywhere, I always thought CeVIO was better than UTAU but worse than Vocaloid in terms of engine noise. But even then, there were already some UTAUs that were so good, they sounded like Vocaloid banks, which just made CeVIO's issues more stark to me. People still complain about Vocaloid VBs having a distinct sound, even on V6, but I've been listening to Vocaloid for so long that I never take any notice of it. But as soon as I hear a CeVIO VB, I can tell it's on CeVIO because that buzzy engine noise is still so obvious.
 

peaches2217

Give me Gackpoid AI or give me DEATH
Sep 11, 2019
1,930
27
Arklahoma
Although I do keep up with CeVIO as a voice synth, to this day I've never been a fan of its engine noise, not even with its AI version or Voicesona. CeVIO's engine noise sounds "buzzy" to me in a way that can be really unpleasant to my ears in some banks. Just to use the 1st Place girls as examples, ONE doesn't have it too bad, but in IA English, it can get unbearable unless you try to mix it out in post-production, and even then you can't always remove it completely. (Perhaps it's because I can hear the issues with IA English more as a native English speaker compared to Japanese-only ONE, but still).

In the days before voice synths started popping up everywhere, I always thought CeVIO was better than UTAU but worse than Vocaloid in terms of engine noise. But even then, there were already some UTAUs that were so good, they sounded like Vocaloid banks, which just made CeVIO's issues more stark to me. People still complain about Vocaloid VBs having a distinct sound, even on V6, but I've been listening to Vocaloid for so long that I never take any notice of it. But as soon as I hear a CeVIO VB, I can tell it's on CeVIO because that buzzy engine noise is still so obvious.
Eh, honestly, that’s an incredibly common opinion regarding CeVIO. I don’t think anyone’s denying it’s noisy, it’s popularity simply comes from people finding that they like certain things about it more than they dislike the noisiness. (Unpopular opinion of my own: I thing CeVIO’s noise has gotten a lot less bothersome the further along it’s come. Compare Yukari Rei to Sasara, for example; Sasara and everyone that’s come after her gave noise, but it’s not grating and invasive like Rei’s is.)
 

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