Unpopular Opinions

[peaches2217]

I think Nana’s issues are no worse than most non-native banks, honestly. Her Rs are the only stand-out issue she has, but I honestly think it’s incredibly cute, and it just works somehow. I won’t deny that Fukase is an HQ bank, and his voice has a wider appeal, but I’d say Nana is neck-and-neck with him, quality-wise. Whether you prefer one over the other is a matter of personal preference, but objectively speaking, one isn’t worse or better than the other, I feel.

 

[GreenFantasy64]

Nana English sounds good at low range and not being use at fast tempo range.

 

[ikaroll]

Avanna being marketed towards edm artists for her to be used in edm music is a weird decision to me.

From personal experience, she's REALLY quiet and hard to mix. And I was trying to make a cover with her of an EDM song.

Even SONIKA is easier to mix

(i DO enjoy using Avanna though, and I'm not trying to say she's the most difficult vb to use, but she CAN be sometimes lol)

 

[Stardust]

Avanna being marketed towards edm artists for her to be used in edm music is a weird decision to me.

From personal experience, she's REALLY quiet and hard to mix. And I was trying to make a cover with her of an EDM song.

Even SONIKA is easier to mix

(i DO enjoy using Avanna though, and I'm not trying to say she's the most difficult vb to use, but she CAN be sometimes lol)

That always confused me as well. Her demo songs provided on Zero-G and Big Fish Audio are not EDM either, and they also advertise her as being able to sing folk songs I believe.
Porter Robinson was successfully able to use her in Sad Machine, which always surprised me given how her VB is. She might have been the vocal for Goodbye to a World as well, as the vocalist has the same vocal quirks as her when she sings. It could be Gumi ENG however as he has said that he uses her.

 

[DefiantKitsune]

Porter Robinson was successfully able to use her in Sad Machine, which always surprised me given how her VB is. She might have been the vocal for Goodbye to a World as well, as the vocalist has the same vocal quirks as her when she sings. It could be Gumi ENG however as he has said that he uses her.

Robinson used Avanna in Sad Machine, Goodbye for a World, and Fresh Static Snow. He might own Gumi (I couldn't find anything either way about that) but he's never released anything with her.
I'd point out two other popular EDM producers (Phantom Sage and Daydreamers) also have made popular songs using Avanna, so even if the EDM recommendation seems odd clearly ZG knew what they were talking about there (especially since that's the one and only case of an English vocaloid getting serious recognition outside the fandom and/or tech enthusiasts).

 

[Stardust]

Robinson used Avanna in Sad Machine, Goodbye for a World, and Fresh Static Snow. He might own Gumi (I couldn't find anything either way about that) but he's never released anything with her.
I'd point out two other popular EDM producers (Phantom Sage and Daydreamers) also have made popular songs using Avanna, so even if the EDM recommendation seems odd clearly ZG knew what they were talking about there (especially since that's the one and only case of an English vocaloid getting serious recognition outside the fandom and/or tech enthusiasts).

This was where I found him saying he owns Gumi.
I never knew other EDM producers used her, that is very interesting. Moe Shop also used Gumi for Love Taste, which I found interesting. I hope this means Engloids continue to get used more by people outside of the fandom.

 

[DefiantKitsune]

This was where I found him saying he owns Gumi.
I never knew other EDM producers used her, that is very interesting. Moe Shop also used Gumi for Love Taste, which I found interesting. I hope this means Engloids continue to get used more by people outside of the fandom.

Interesting song, nice to know! (but the top comment thread is causing me physical pain )

 

[Prism]

Oh I think the edm marketing would be because she is a vocaloid and that edm people who make their music mainly in the computer would actually use her and take the time to tune. It's also that was the popular genre at the time.

 

[andantina]

To be honest I don't think the trend of EDM producers using Avanna was generally popular, it was more of a conscious decision by producers that were influenced by Porter Robinson. Both of the producers DefiantKitsune mentioned are heavily inspired by Porter, which is very clear if you listen to their tracks (especially Phantom Sage - Our Lives Past and Daydreamer - Skyscrapers. They both sound like Porter Robinson could have made them and nobody would question it). Basically I think Vocaloids were never "mainstream", just briefly in the spotlight of a specific EDM subgenre. Which reminds me...

Vocal Synthesis and Community Reputations

I know that Vocaloids and vocal synthesizers in general are probably never gonna be 100% mainstream, and I'm fine with that. But I do wish there were more opportunities and creative uses for them inside the subcultures they're involved in, and that they would spread to multiple areas of the internet instead of just "weebs", Porter Robinson/dreamy EDMish synthpop fans, tech nerds and "alt" kids. (I've probably brought this sentiment up before but I'd like to elaborate on it). I know that those aren't the only groups that have ever been interested in Vocal synths, but if you say you like Vocaloids or are interested in the science behind the technology, people will automatically assume you fall under one or more of these categories. I think thats really limiting to the creative liberties Vocaloid users can take. Not to mention making it hard to talk about the objective concept of vocal synthesizers, because it's 99% likely to go one of four ways:

Person 1: *mentions Vocaloid*
Person 2: Is Hatsune Miku your waifu or some shit?
Person 1: No, I just--
Person 2: ooooooo we got a weeeeeeeeb up in here bois

Person 1: *mentions Vocaloid*
Person 2: Oh, Vocaloid! Those robot voices? Like in Sad Machine?

Person 1: *mentions Vocaloid*
Person 2: What's that?
Person 1: *explains*
Person 2: Nerd.

or...

Person 1: *mentions Vocaloid*
Person 2: I didn't think you were into that sorta thing... you seem pretty normal to me

Obviously these are exaggerated scenarios (except for the 3rd one, which actually happened to me once lol) but they're all based on the actual associations people have with Vocaloid, based on what's commonly portrayed in the public eye. And these associations are often negative, or aligned with the same handful of stereotypes. I wish people could use vocal synthesizers in different social standings other than a) very niche and old otaku circle or b) mainstream, aiming to be put on the radio. There is a middle ground, but a lot or people don't realize that, or are too set in their ways to even consider it.

That was a mile long and i still dont know if i got my point across but yeah *flies away*

 

[___]

This has nothing to do with my bias against her I swear but I genuinely don't mind Flower in metal...like...I'll always like different vbs in her place but I will listen to metal Flower song...with that being said, despite being intended for this genre I always found her shouts to be the least satisfying, they always turn out to be way too breathy.

 

[ikaroll]

Person 1: *mentions Vocaloid*
Person 2: Is Hatsune Miku your waifu or some shit?
Person 1: No, I just--
Person 2: ooooooo we got a weeeeeeeeb up in here bois

Oh god I think somebody's actually asked me if Vocaloid was an anime before hahflhjkl

Seeing as English is one of the harder languages to synthesize, I feel like people should stop saying that *insert Engloid here* is completely terrible. Like, its fine if you don't like this specific Engloid. Saying that an Engloid is awful based on a few usages will end up swaying fans into hating on that Engloid

Sonika gets this treatment and I wish people (esp fans who don't use the software) would give her a chance, despite her flaws.

 

[ruffe]

Seeing as English is one of the harder languages to synthesize, I feel like people should stop saying that *insert Engloid here* is completely terrible.

I'm conflicted when it comes to Vocaloid English, more so now with the advent of Eleanor Forte and IA English C. Of course, it does all come down to whether they've been used well (as is the case with any synth, regardless of language), but there's something specific about Vocaloid English that's so... uncanny? It's probably down to the other two synths using ARPAbet whilst Vocaloid uses X-SAMPA, the former just works much better for singing. People seem to note that Engloids have "pronounce every single letter in the word as if it's a TTS" syndrome too, which doesn't help because singing is so different from speaking, that could probably be remedied with a bunch of new phonemes or just a complete overhaul.

English will - no doubt - receive a massive boost once the first Eng AI bank is released (counting on you SynthV) because English is just that awkward of a language to condense in synth form, even if we're on the right track with moving to ARPAbet.

on a less whiny note, I actually find Sonika's accent quite charming, despite not listening to her a whole lot.

 

[lIlI]

Agreed, I think an English AI bank would change the game even more so than it does for Japanese vocals.

 

[Prism]

I think if they can make an English ai bank that's not offensive and pretty generic sounding session singer. I think it will get popular with the English songwriters for demos.

 

[ikaroll]

Since we're still on the subject of English, I guess my unpopular opinion is that realistic English (like Eleanor) doesn't appeal to me. It may just be because I really like robots and stuff, but choppy, robotic sounding singing actually sounds better than realistic singing to my ears

 

[Blue Of Mind]

Since we're still on the subject of English, I guess my unpopular opinion is that realistic English (like Eleanor) doesn't appeal to me. It may just be because I really like robots and stuff, but choppy, robotic sounding singing actually sounds better than realistic singing to my ears

I kind of wish we had more voice acted English banks, but I just know they will bomb in sales - typical amateur and professional musicians will be turned off by any unusual-sounding (English) voices, and many vocal synth fans probably wouldn't even buy it to support it.

 

[ruffe]

I kind of wish we had more voice acted English banks, but I just know they will bomb in sales

We're in such a predicament with English banks, aren't we? Everyone would like a natural, non-voice-acted vocal that's perfect for pop (look at the "if x celeb voiced a character" etc etc), but if someone like Madison Beer provided her voice it'd probably be crickets for everyone who isn't already a fan, or who has no idea who she is because of these reasons: Individual characteristics end up getting lost in the process - or get distorted by the synth and turned into a nasal buzz - and we're left with a "generic, boring, sounds like x" voicebank with hardly anything notable about it - which sucks, but it's just how it's been for forever. That's the reason I feel natural banks are so hit or miss with the general fandom. or they're just boring, like Avanna's voice type. The most perfect, non-japanese, pop-ready natural voicebanks we have right now are Maika, Gumi, Cyber-Songman, and maybe Fukase but that's such a small pool of vocals and people might not enjoy them for their own reasons.

Voice-acted banks are another story, they'll be dragged to hell and back because of how they sound too nasally or weird. It reminds me of the subs vs dubs discourse, where fans will proclaim that ENG dubs sound cringe and fake but praise the Japanese, despite not knowing how bad that voice-acting might sound to native Japanese people. I don't think I have a solution for this one, other than they'd just need to keep going and hope fans like what they put out or do a "vote for the voice actor based on samples" kinda thing, which would probably benefit the Engloid community a lot. I applaud you Engloid stans for persevering tbh. :')

I can't condense my thoughts and I'm just thinking out loud so i apologise for making you read novels

 

[WyndReed]

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I feel that Gumi’s V4 design is better than her other designs.

 

[mikusingularity]

I know that Vocaloids and vocal synthesizers in general are probably never gonna be 100% mainstream, and I'm fine with that. But I do wish there were more opportunities and creative uses for them inside the subcultures they're involved in, and that they would spread to multiple areas of the internet instead of just "weebs", Porter Robinson/dreamy EDMish synthpop fans, tech nerds and "alt" kids. (I've probably brought this sentiment up before but I'd like to elaborate on it). I know that those aren't the only groups that have ever been interested in Vocal synths, but if you say you like Vocaloids or are interested in the science behind the technology, people will automatically assume you fall under one or more of these categories.

On the contrary, I believe that we need to emphasize the electronic/tech/futuristic aspect, which is the whole point of the Hatsunia project.

There are so many people who want Japan to be futuristic and are frustrated with the outdated technology there like fax machines.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

On the contrary, I believe that we need to emphasize the electronic/tech/futuristic aspect, which is the whole point of the Hatsunia project.

There are so many people who want Japan to be futuristic and are frustrated with the outdated technology there like fax machines.

I'm kind of mixed on these opinions... Vocaloid and other vocal synths will always be associated with technology and the future because of their entire concepts, but at the same time I do wish the fandom would spread outside of anime, EDM and tech nerd circles. I just like variety in the vocal synth scene now, y'know?