There's a lot of things I would like to talk about from that Q&A but I'll keep short to the main thing that irked me while reading it. VocaTone claims that they have learnt from when they were developing Oliver but to be very honest, I don't see that at all. I've been in the fandom for some years, most might remember the whole Planty incident and every dumpster fire since and you would think a company that has successfully worked on Vocaloids before, fans of the community, would have a better handle on things when they know how things go the way it is going right now.
For starters, they said they've been working on this idea for the past 3 years, but even though they've done all this work, there isn't any running code for the synth they want us to financially back? We cannot see a mockup of the GUI. There's no test renders of the vocals with a free program such as UTAU. Hell, we even have to pay just to hear what the VPs sound like. I don't know if it's just me, but this whole endeavour feels so poorly executed that I just want to cry.
Anyone would know that anyone who is trying to raise money, either as an individual or a company, would bring a proof of concept of what they intend to do. Alright, there's no functioning code of the GUI nor its engine. I could work with that. You got no tests, whether synthesised or samples from the VPs themselves, though they managed to create dictionaries and have support for multiple languages (?) despite the entire thing still being in psuedocode. Hmm, strange but I'll allow that as well. But then they manage to trip over their feet every day since the announcement.
You gave us a 53 second announcement video that honestly does nothing but generate hype. Great! Hype is always a nice way to get your name out there, but then you released a FB post, and then an impromptu Q&A, a follow up to that Q&A, and then the Q&A yesterday and from then till now the amount of information that has changed, the number of contradictions, the general vibe of the whole thing is completely unprofessional and really isn't something I expect from people who've been in this business (though inactive) for a while now.
We've seen teams do announcements for Vocaloids with actual test samples and the like but they failed because of poor management and proper planning, but you guys want to make a synth from the ground up, with extensive language support and neural network features and somehow give off a far more disorganised demeanour. You speak of trying to get grants, partnering with schools to use as a learning tool, and a lot of other things that really shouldn't be the main focus at this point in time. VocaTone is trying to make a synth, alright! Make the GUI, record the voicebanks, code the engine and build from there. Everything, and I mean everything outside of that is a stretch goal at the moment because planning all of that makes no sense if you cannot get off the ground.
Last but not least, the concern about funding. I touched on the proof of concept earlier but I need to emphasise that again. The community has been through enough as it is with lofty projects and goals that flopped because of proper planning and management. The fact that we have to pay money just to hear what the VPs sound like with the excuse of "well, we can't do anything if we have no money (smiley face)" doesn't sit well with me at all. Ameya made UTAU, and many developers have contributed code to it in the form of plugins and resamplers for free. Kanru Hua made Moresampler, a resampler for UTAU, before moving on to create Synthesizer V and we can all see just how successful that was considering there is still a free option already. So if those individuals could have done that without money, at the very least you guys should have a proper document outline all of your plans and how you intend to get them done with proper marketing materials to get the support of others instead of this poorly executed return from the dead.
I wish VocaTone all the best, I really do but after everything I've seen in this community, and the new low that this project has brought in regards to fundraising, I would not be supporting this financially. I do hope you guys are more organised than what is being shown to the public but I guess only time will tell.
For starters, they said they've been working on this idea for the past 3 years, but even though they've done all this work, there isn't any running code for the synth they want us to financially back? We cannot see a mockup of the GUI. There's no test renders of the vocals with a free program such as UTAU. Hell, we even have to pay just to hear what the VPs sound like. I don't know if it's just me, but this whole endeavour feels so poorly executed that I just want to cry.
Anyone would know that anyone who is trying to raise money, either as an individual or a company, would bring a proof of concept of what they intend to do. Alright, there's no functioning code of the GUI nor its engine. I could work with that. You got no tests, whether synthesised or samples from the VPs themselves, though they managed to create dictionaries and have support for multiple languages (?) despite the entire thing still being in psuedocode. Hmm, strange but I'll allow that as well. But then they manage to trip over their feet every day since the announcement.
You gave us a 53 second announcement video that honestly does nothing but generate hype. Great! Hype is always a nice way to get your name out there, but then you released a FB post, and then an impromptu Q&A, a follow up to that Q&A, and then the Q&A yesterday and from then till now the amount of information that has changed, the number of contradictions, the general vibe of the whole thing is completely unprofessional and really isn't something I expect from people who've been in this business (though inactive) for a while now.
We've seen teams do announcements for Vocaloids with actual test samples and the like but they failed because of poor management and proper planning, but you guys want to make a synth from the ground up, with extensive language support and neural network features and somehow give off a far more disorganised demeanour. You speak of trying to get grants, partnering with schools to use as a learning tool, and a lot of other things that really shouldn't be the main focus at this point in time. VocaTone is trying to make a synth, alright! Make the GUI, record the voicebanks, code the engine and build from there. Everything, and I mean everything outside of that is a stretch goal at the moment because planning all of that makes no sense if you cannot get off the ground.
Last but not least, the concern about funding. I touched on the proof of concept earlier but I need to emphasise that again. The community has been through enough as it is with lofty projects and goals that flopped because of proper planning and management. The fact that we have to pay money just to hear what the VPs sound like with the excuse of "well, we can't do anything if we have no money (smiley face)" doesn't sit well with me at all. Ameya made UTAU, and many developers have contributed code to it in the form of plugins and resamplers for free. Kanru Hua made Moresampler, a resampler for UTAU, before moving on to create Synthesizer V and we can all see just how successful that was considering there is still a free option already. So if those individuals could have done that without money, at the very least you guys should have a proper document outline all of your plans and how you intend to get them done with proper marketing materials to get the support of others instead of this poorly executed return from the dead.
I wish VocaTone all the best, I really do but after everything I've seen in this community, and the new low that this project has brought in regards to fundraising, I would not be supporting this financially. I do hope you guys are more organised than what is being shown to the public but I guess only time will tell.
That's something I've been thinking about. I can believe such reclists have been developed, utau users have done such things in the past and I believe they could have done the same. The thing is is that utau users then can execute those reclists on an existing software and see flaws in it, go back and forth between redoing the reclist and re-recording, do test runs and build a solid reclist from there......with no existing software they can't do that and are missing a huge step in developing proper reclist so they can be feeling confident right now but for all we know once those reclists of theirs are tested in their engine they could very likely be buggy mess, and here comes another year or two of redoing 54321 reclists for their promised languages.....another reason why they should be starting with smaller number of languages.
They should have started with something to begin with, because there is nothing here
Just a couple of ideas and two drawings
And I'm sorry if it sounds rude, but it's the truth.
I will say I feel a little conned by the initial announcement saying "all ready, just need funding" and then finding out "all ready" means they have ideas. 
The Q&A really gave me flashbacks of past failed projects in this community like Rose, where the ideas were all there, but they announced it too early before having anything concrete and ultimately things fell apart largely because of the doubt of the community. I know they need funding to make this happen, but I worry things aren't going to work out because they announced their project before they had anything together. There is so much doubt for this project in the community already. I think it's going to be really hard for them to prove themselves as a trustworthy project to fund without any examples of the Maghni AI voicebanks or editor to show.
Also, a concern I have is that during the Q&A people were bringing up a lot of ideas for Maghni AI...a TON of languages, multiple versions of the editor, "resurrecting" dead vocals, concerts...and the team never really shot these ideas down. Now obviously they didn't PROMISE they were going to do any of this, they just said that they'd like to or it was their goal in the future or something...but I worry it's kind of giving people a false pretense of what they're going to do. They seem to want to accomplish a lot for Maghni AI, and it really doesn't seem realistic to expect this from an editor made by a small group that relies on crowdfunding for everything. Which is where I think a lot of the doubt for their project comes from. I think if they narrowed their focus and started smaller, it would seem a lot more realistic and make the project more trustworthy to people. Again, I don't really feel like they're scamming anyone or lying, I think they're just biting off more than they can chew with all these ambitious ideas they have. And biting off more than you can chew only leads to disappointment.
If I were to make my prediction about how Maghni AI going to end up, I'm going to put it in the "Rose" bin and say it falls apart and never happens. Which is so pessimistic, I know. But it's the vibes I'm getting so far. And of course I do feel bad saying this knowing the people behind the project are just passionate voice synth fans that want to do something cool. I don't want to be the world's negativest nancy, but crowdfunding projects require a lot of trust from the community you're asking for money from. And right now feelings are really mixed.
The Q&A really gave me flashbacks of past failed projects in this community like Rose, where the ideas were all there, but they announced it too early before having anything concrete and ultimately things fell apart largely because of the doubt of the community. I know they need funding to make this happen, but I worry things aren't going to work out because they announced their project before they had anything together. There is so much doubt for this project in the community already. I think it's going to be really hard for them to prove themselves as a trustworthy project to fund without any examples of the Maghni AI voicebanks or editor to show.
Also, a concern I have is that during the Q&A people were bringing up a lot of ideas for Maghni AI...a TON of languages, multiple versions of the editor, "resurrecting" dead vocals, concerts...and the team never really shot these ideas down. Now obviously they didn't PROMISE they were going to do any of this, they just said that they'd like to or it was their goal in the future or something...but I worry it's kind of giving people a false pretense of what they're going to do. They seem to want to accomplish a lot for Maghni AI, and it really doesn't seem realistic to expect this from an editor made by a small group that relies on crowdfunding for everything. Which is where I think a lot of the doubt for their project comes from. I think if they narrowed their focus and started smaller, it would seem a lot more realistic and make the project more trustworthy to people. Again, I don't really feel like they're scamming anyone or lying, I think they're just biting off more than they can chew with all these ambitious ideas they have. And biting off more than you can chew only leads to disappointment.
If I were to make my prediction about how Maghni AI going to end up, I'm going to put it in the "Rose" bin and say it falls apart and never happens. Which is so pessimistic, I know. But it's the vibes I'm getting so far. And of course I do feel bad saying this knowing the people behind the project are just passionate voice synth fans that want to do something cool. I don't want to be the world's negativest nancy, but crowdfunding projects require a lot of trust from the community you're asking for money from. And right now feelings are really mixed.
They're really confident in their project.....which...is a good thing but ....from the way they sound their whole train of thought follows the best case scenario, they’re not accounting for any errors or flubs that could occur whatsoever.
Even the most major aspect, the possibility of this project not getting funded, was more like a throwaway acknowledgment on their end.
Even the most major aspect, the possibility of this project not getting funded, was more like a throwaway acknowledgment on their end.
I think this whole thing would have been much more smooth if they announced their return, teased at something huge, actually put work into getting something concrete to present us, and then started requesting funding. As it’s been said by many already, I don’t wanna sink money into a handful of ideas presented by a company that very notoriously hasn’t kept their promises in the past. It’s just hard to trust, y’know?
My hope for this project and I say this with nothing but excitement because I want this to succeed I really do would be to rein in some ideas at the moment and tackle them down the line when they are better established? I love that they have all of these amazing ideas but at the same time it is good to take it one step at a time like say English vbs and editor first then add in extras as they see fit? idk rambly but I really do hope the project succeeds I'll probs support the kickstarter when it goes active out of hope for it :x
I've been listening to the Q&A video on and off when I have time, and i can see that they truly are passionate vocal synth fans, but they're beign far too ambitious and coming for funding far too early, like others have expressed.
I don't want to be too negative, and I truly believe that if they started much, much smaller, they could succeed, but, to be blunt about it, anyone can have passion and an idea and do some planning--that's not investable. Everything they are planning is really exciting, and if it were to happen, it would be absolutely amazing, but there is such a thing as coming to the table too early, and that goes especially for when you are coming to a community of other fans as your investors. It's all about baby steps and getting a proof of concept before you come asking for money.
My only hope is that if the project doesn't get fully funded, which I am predicting it will not, that they take a few steps back, rethink their business plan, and start working slow. Passion and excitement can't drive a business endeavor, and they're sprinting before the race has even started, or whatever that metaphor is. They need to be more focused, figure out their core audience and market, start small, and be able to show the community a phyiscal thing they are investing in, not just promises.
I really hope that, regardless of how the Kickstarter goes, they continue to have the same passion for their idea, and just rethink things and start much, much smaller. I certainly think it's possible if they just slow own and think everything through with a clear head. I have a firm belief they could make this dream synth reality, hut I don't believe that is now, or anytime in the near future. It's not investable today, but I'd love to see them again in the future when they have more to show and I can more confidently support them. Until then, I wish them good luck.
And that concludes my trying to be understandable ramble as a daughter of a business owner and lover of investor/business TV shows lol
I don't want to be too negative, and I truly believe that if they started much, much smaller, they could succeed, but, to be blunt about it, anyone can have passion and an idea and do some planning--that's not investable. Everything they are planning is really exciting, and if it were to happen, it would be absolutely amazing, but there is such a thing as coming to the table too early, and that goes especially for when you are coming to a community of other fans as your investors. It's all about baby steps and getting a proof of concept before you come asking for money.
My only hope is that if the project doesn't get fully funded, which I am predicting it will not, that they take a few steps back, rethink their business plan, and start working slow. Passion and excitement can't drive a business endeavor, and they're sprinting before the race has even started, or whatever that metaphor is. They need to be more focused, figure out their core audience and market, start small, and be able to show the community a phyiscal thing they are investing in, not just promises.
I really hope that, regardless of how the Kickstarter goes, they continue to have the same passion for their idea, and just rethink things and start much, much smaller. I certainly think it's possible if they just slow own and think everything through with a clear head. I have a firm belief they could make this dream synth reality, hut I don't believe that is now, or anytime in the near future. It's not investable today, but I'd love to see them again in the future when they have more to show and I can more confidently support them. Until then, I wish them good luck.
I really would like to see a prototype of the ui of the software and voice provider samples or a business plan just something to give the crowdfunders trust and more than a image and a overambitious idea. I hate the idea that they are going to hide important information like samples behind a pay wall.
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My biggest worry and I would like to hear them talk about this more is if the Kickstarter doesn’t succeed what will they do with any money made whether it’s a little or a lot. Most stuff can be ironed out later but the money is the biggest issue because even if Vocatone isn’t a scammer if they take people’s money and aren’t able to fulfill they will be labeled as one. So they should seriously show how they will accountable since money is getting involved. If money wasn’t involved I wouldn’t care so much about what they choose to do at all but I would hate for someone to donate and not get what they’re expecting. If you take money you are a business and you have to operate professionally as one, you are no longer just a group of fans when you ask for money. So I really hope to see that professionalism and accountability. I think if money wasn’t involved not as many people would be getting on them but 35k is not chump change.
They actually did address that: they chose Kickstarter specifically because it refunds backers if the project isn't funded. But yeah, they mentioned it in passing and mentioned little else about the details of the money, and that's just... I dunno, it's very shady.
Oh if the kickstarter isn't completely funded the money is returned to the the people. It's one of the good thing about Kickstarter. My concern is backing it and it is funded but they didn't calculate the money properly and run out of money. I don't know how expensive or hard it is to build a vocal synthesizer engine but it hard enough that huge companies haven't made their own except crypton so it is a concern. Also concerned about the quality of the vocal synthesis
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And really......god knows what they'll deliver if it got funded
there's nothing to go off of but promises and no reason for us to believe they'd get fulfilled.
Well at least the money will be refunded that’s good. That takes my biggest fear off the table, definitely still agree about the other concerns but I’m glad there’s that.
I do see why they would want to build their own engine after dealing with Yamaha and licensing fees with Oliver and yohioloid and the canceled voice banks but I do hope they can pull it off and be higher quality than a vccv bank with moresamples. I hope they really take time and effort into ui and user experience it's one of the things that holds back a lot of vocal synth in the bigger market.
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They said they have access to grants, right? maybe it would've been best for them to take one, work on the engine, and then come to the community for extra funding when they have something to actually show for it... because we don't even have crumbs of what it'll be like! I can't see the kickstarter being successfully funded at all.
I also agree with some people saying they're doing too much in terms of language support and whatnot - and all I can say about that is, I'm sure we all much prefer quality over quantity.
making these lofty statements will have everyone disappointed, regardless of the end result. I do hope they manage to find their footing and succeed though, no one wants a modern day "Rose" situation.
I also agree with some people saying they're doing too much in terms of language support and whatnot - and all I can say about that is, I'm sure we all much prefer quality over quantity.
making these lofty statements will have everyone disappointed, regardless of the end result. I do hope they manage to find their footing and succeed though, no one wants a modern day "Rose" situation.
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I admit I had very little interest in this project, but decided to read through the thread last night anyway as I had time, and...yikes, how they're handling their project is kind of tragicomic. I'm afraid they're going to have a hard time getting funded.
You can't really expect anyone to invest in your project if all you have is promises of making something good and no prototype of the product or even a relatively failsafe plan on how to get there. That's why usually new entrepreneurs developing their own product have to invest their own money and take loans to fund their product development until they're at the stage where they can realistically expect to appeal to investors. It's hard to get anyone to invest in a mere idea.
Best of luck for the project, but I think the bedt thing to do would be to go back and make at least some kind of prototype version to show the potential backers, and be clear and honest about what stage their project really is in and how it's going to progress. That would massively help the project's credibility, because with what they've shown us now, I imagine many potential backers are left doubting if the project will ever be even finished. Without samples of how the synthesized voices sound it's impossible to decide whether you even like them enough to put your money in the kickstarter.
You can't really expect anyone to invest in your project if all you have is promises of making something good and no prototype of the product or even a relatively failsafe plan on how to get there. That's why usually new entrepreneurs developing their own product have to invest their own money and take loans to fund their product development until they're at the stage where they can realistically expect to appeal to investors. It's hard to get anyone to invest in a mere idea.
Best of luck for the project, but I think the bedt thing to do would be to go back and make at least some kind of prototype version to show the potential backers, and be clear and honest about what stage their project really is in and how it's going to progress. That would massively help the project's credibility, because with what they've shown us now, I imagine many potential backers are left doubting if the project will ever be even finished. Without samples of how the synthesized voices sound it's impossible to decide whether you even like them enough to put your money in the kickstarter.
Valid concerns about the project aside, is anyone else worried that VocaTone might be trying to break into a market that's starting to get a bit overcrowded? This is the first period of time I can ever recall Vocaloid actually having some proper competition in terms of quality. SynthV is already experiencing its golden age, CeVIO is expanding its capabilities despite a shaky start with AI, and we have other synths like Neutrino and A.I.Voice on the side too. Maghni at the very least is aiming more at the Western market, but if Westerners remain more interested in Japanese synths, then Maghni might be left in the dust despite what the devs are promising. (There's not much point in Maghni supporting lots of languages for example, if nobody has the incentive to develop VBs for them, because the synth doesn't have the market share necessary for a VB to succeed).