Unpopular Opinions

[lIlI]

On a related note, I don't understand why people say that vocal synth characters are more fluid when it comes to canon compared to other fictional characters. Reinterpretations - such as AUs, younger versions, older versions, evil versions - are extremely common across all fandoms; it's not something unique to vocal synths.

Disney isn't going to arrest me for making Elsa 50 and giving her fire powers in my AMV, but sometimes vocal synth fans talk as though they would, haha. Crypton saying 'you are allowed to make AUs where Meiko is younger' etc. would be considered redundant in most communities, because fanworks have never needed vetting or approval from the property's creator. There's really no significant difference between what you can do with a Vocaloid and what you can do with any other fictional character.

The character is created with a specific concept or narrative, this information is given to the community, and the community creates works inspired by it - usually with alternations or additions. Normally this is self explanatory, but something keeps triggering the topic to pop up in vocal synth spaces. I think the whole discussion of canon fluidity might be the community's way of tip-toeing round a separate issue that people aren't willing to talk about directly.

 

[___]

I feel like UTAU has reached such status in the voice synth community people have forgotten it was some rando's spare time pet project almost a decade ago, I'm not saying it's exempt from criticism so don't twist my words but imo to treat it with equal harshness as modern commercial synths comes across as whiny and entitled considering the circusmstances and the time it was developed in.

 

[Leon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the circumstances of UTAU's development actually just makes the insanely good results users get all that much more impressive. That being said, it's almost unfair to expect it to continually output results on par with and/or better than professional synths, for the same reason. People complain that UTAU is too complicated, etc, and yeah it's a monster purely because it wasn't made with its current use in mind. The time and dedication that its users put into it is incredible, and frankly it's more sad on behalf of some professional-level programs that they can't beat it

 

[___]

It def isn't a synth for everyone, it takes a certain kind of person to enjoy this type of niche and workflow

 

[Prism]

I do wish utau would go open source one day because it is a good synth it's just rotating in 2000s early voice synth ui

 

[frankensalad]

When people criticize Utau for being old and outdated, they aren't really criticizing the program. They're criticizing Ameya for refusing to update it or make it open source given the huge fanbase and the programs need for an update. They're also criticizing the userbase for continuing to use the outdated software instead of putting their efforts into using software that's more likely to get updated like DeepVocal or develop another software of their own like the developers of Vsynth did.

Yes, the results that Utau users are able to get out of the sofware are genuinely amazing. Now imagine if they put half that amount of effort into something that actually has a future.

 

[peaches2217]

When people criticize Utau for being old and outdated, they aren't really criticizing the program. They're criticizing Ameya for refusing to update it or make it open source given the huge fanbase and the programs need for an update. They're also criticizing the userbase for continuing to use the outdated software instead of putting their efforts into using software that's more likely to get updated like DeepVocal or develop another software of their own like the developers of Vsynth did.

Yes, the results that Utau users are able to get out of the sofware are genuinely amazing. Now imagine if they put half that amount of effort into something that actually has a future.

The thing is, they're not obligated to update it. They did it for fun and released it for free. Wishing they'd come back and update it is understandable (I'd love to see it get a more modern interface, for one), but to demand updates from them for a non-commercial pet project is nothing short of entitled. And who says Utau doesn't have a future? Its future is being crafted by the people who care about and invest into it; if not Ameya, then its userbase. Just because it's outdated doesn't mean it can't continue to grow. Abandoning a software simply because it's growing old is a waste, especially when it can produce results that compete with commercial, up-to-date synths.

 

[WyndReed]

I think there are many reasons that people haven't jumped ship from Utau, but to me the main one is that it's a staple in the vocal synth community(maybe more the hobbyists than professionals) at this point. Utau may have it's problems, but until another piece of software can exactly fill its shoes it will always be around. Plus there is no legal way to replicate some of the most popular voicebanks on another platform, so it'll have to stay around just for those banks.

 

[___]

UTAU wasn't gonna pay Ameya's bills any time soon, they do not have the obligation to update it or change it's license and who are you to "criticize" people for their voice synth of choice? Or telling people to get up and make whole new voice synthesizer from scratch, that's absurd.

 

[cafenurse]

my unpopular opinion is that saying "all western producers make music that sounds the same" is not an unpopular opinion

 

[frankensalad]

Utau may have it's problems, but until another piece of software can exactly fill its shoes it will always be around.

There have been a few programs like DeepVocal that have come along, but the people who enjoy developing their own voicebanks decided to stay put with Utau for the most part. I kind of get it, DeepVocal does have some major engine noise issues, but I highly doubt that the developer would have been against working with the community to improve it (which given that the Utau community has developed rendering engines that outshine anything Ameya has made, I don't see why that would be too much to ask of the community in this case). But now he's stopped updating his twitter and I'm not sure when the last DeepVocal update was, so I'm pretty sure we missed our chance at that being the Utau killer we need.

Plus there is no legal way to replicate some of the most popular voicebanks on another platform, so it'll have to stay around just for those banks.

True, but since Utau is a closed source program and probably won't be compatible with the next line of Windows Operating Systems, there's a possibility that people are going to have to resort to some less than legal methods to keep Utau working as well.

they do not have the obligation to update it or change it's license

The thing is, they're not obligated to update it. They did it for fun and released it for free.

Is Ameya still having fun with Utau? Have they done literally anything with Utau recently? They may not be obligated to update it or make it open source, but the users aren't obligated to keep using the software either. But for some reason they still do. Even when there are other options which have a much better chance of being continually updated if they receive support from a community, the community would much rather continue to huddle around Utau until it literally ceases to function.

UTAU wasn't gonna pay Ameya's bills any time soon,

Citation Needed? There are people selling voicebanks for the software and magazines published in Japan teaching people how to use the software. If Ameya can't find a way to monetize Utau without charging people up front to download it, then he's not very smart.

Personally, I find it very hard to believe Ameya hasn't successfully monetized Utau considering that Teto and other popular Utau voicebanks continue to pop up on KarenT and in Piapro related shindigs. Not to mention the magazines dedicated to the software and other instances of people having to pay for the right to display the software's logo at the very least. I find it much more likely that Ameya just doesn't do any work on Utau anymore because they simply don't need to. The community maintains it's cultural relevancy for him. They keep developing the plugins and rendering engines and new recording methods and hacks that make it clear they could easily combine their efforts to create a new software of their own (or do you seriously think a piano role is the hard part) and dedicating it to keeping the corpse of Ameya's software afloat.

And who says Utau doesn't have a future? Its future is being crafted by the people who care about and invest into it; if not Ameya, then its userbase.

At some point, Utau is going to stop working on contemporary operating systems. Maybe that will be the point when Ameya finally steps in to develop an update. If not, the userbase will have to develop even more workaround to keep the software working. This on top of the workaround it already requires to get the software working on a non-Japanese machine. And the plugins to give the software much needed quality of life features. At some point, I wish people would realize that all these hoops aren't worth it to anyone who isn't already heavily invested the vocal synth fandom and/or in the maintenance of Utau.

The people keeping the software going will lose interest and leave at some point, and nobody is going to fill their shoes because getting the software up and running will be too much of a hassle. These voicebanks you're scared to see become irrelevant WILL become irrelevant because they're trapped on a software that a few people have nostalgic memories for and nobody else wants to touch.

Anyway, my unpopular opinion is "everything is fine and Utau doesn't need to update" isn't an unpopular opinion and I don't understand why everyone feels the need to keep saying it in this thread as if it were one. This is supposed to be an unpopular opinion thread, not an "I saw one person say something I disagree with on a youtube comment and now I need validation" thread.

 

[lIlI]

Just a quick reminder - although this thread is about things we disagree on, keep things chill and civil.

 

[ikaroll]

Related to UTAU-

I quite like the way the interface looks. It may not be classy like Vocaloid or SynthV, but it has that nice little 2000s software feel to it
I don’t think the software ACTUALLY needs an update. I personally think its fine the way it is (thats, ofc, my own opinion)

but the people who enjoy developing their own voicebanks decided to stay put with Utau for the most part.

I think its mostly that people are familiar with UTAU (its pretty simple to create a voicebank for it, depending on voicebank type). I know its a hassle to convert an UTAU bank to DV

 

[___]

If Ameya can't find a way to monetize Utau without charging people up front to download it, then he's not very smart.

..........bruh...

I won't humor this topic too much as it'd strive from the main point too much but those are instances of people coming to Ameya, not Ameya reaching out in an attempt to monetize UTAU.

And we don't know Ameya's living situation.

little off topic abt DV

And before I continue to the main point and since you mentioned DV a lot. Many of resamplers and plug-ins were made by non-westerners, specifically japanese community. DV is not attractive to japanese side as DV was made with chinese voicebanks in mind and the japanese support is limited to only CVVC and harder to develop compared to UTAU. Also there might be xenophoia at play too but it's not my place to be talking about it too much.

DV continues to do amazingly in the chinese ( and korean ) community, that was and is it's target audience which isn't changing anytime soon. What applies to japanese side regarding japanese voicebanks applies to the western one too, plus you can't make a proper english voicebank for DV and it generally doesn't have the same flexibility in voicebank development as UTAU does. It's not just the engine noise that kept DV away from becoming successful in the western and japanese community.

Still...Boxstar is doing just fine, he released an update not too long ago improving the general sound quality and it's not gonna stop being successful on the chinese and korean side any time soon, I think he's well aware of all these aspects of DV that are not appealing to us westerners and the japanese side but I think he's content with the position DV is in right now and good for him, he's just developing the software for different demographic in mind.

so I'm pretty sure we missed our chance at that being the Utau killer we need.

They may not be obligated to update it or make it open source, but the users aren't obligated to keep using the software either. But for some reason they still do.

At some point, I wish people would realize that all these hoops aren't worth it

Anyway, my unpopular opinion is "everything is fine and Utau doesn't need to update" isn't an unpopular opinion and I don't understand why everyone feels the need to keep saying it in this thread as if it were one. This is supposed to be an unpopular opinion thread, not an "I saw one person say something I disagree with on a youtube comment and now I need validation" thread.

I assure you you'd feel much better if you didn't get this worked up over people's own business.

 

[peaches2217]

I'm pretty sure we missed our chance at that being the Utau killer we need.

We don’t need to kill any engines. An old engine can still thrive while new ones march on ahead. The more the merrier; it just gives us more options!

 

[frankensalad]

And before I continue to the main point and since you mentioned DV a lot. Many of resamplers and plug-ins were made by non-westerners, specifically japanese community. DV is not attractive to japanese side as DV was made with chinese voicebanks in mind and the japanese support is limited to only CVVC and harder to develop compared to UTAU. Also there might be xenophoia at play too but it's not my place to be talking about it too much.

I know that Moresampler is pretty much the only resampler to come out of the non-Japanese side of the community, but if I remember correctly, some of the Japanese developed resamplers are opensource and/or based on opensource code with English documentation, so it's not exactly like the inner workings of those resamplers is some higher knowledge that can only be understood by the nihonjins.

As for DV not being as appealing to Japanese users, I guess I can see why CVVC is more difficult to develop for Japanese voicebanks than VCV. That being said, since you say that DV is still being updated, I think that the voicebank development capabilities of DV would probably be expanded to accommodate for that if it's developer saw that there was a demand for it.

And yeah, xenophobia probably plays a big part in it.

plus you can't make a proper english voicebank for DV and it generally doesn't have the same flexibility in voicebank development as UTAU does.

I'm ... confused by this. If DeepVocal is capable of CVVC recording and aliasing, how is it NOT possible to make an English bank on DeepVocal? Hell, since DV allows for consonants at the end of syllables, shouldn't it be a better fit for English than Utau is?

I assure you you'd feel much better if you didn't get this worked up over people's own business.

We don’t need to kill any engines. An old engine can still thrive while new ones march on ahead.

As someone who was using Utau about 7 years ago, I'm allowed to complain about the software being an outdated clunky mess. It was already a clunky mess back then, but I've just installed it on my current computer for the first time and it's literally exactly the same as it was years ago on my old laptop. I guess it's cool that you guys still think it's fun to work with but I personally find it frustrating watching people put this much effort into developing genuinely impressive voicebanks for a program with a horrible user interface, that's never going to be updated, and will probably stop working in a few years. But you do you I guess.

 

[GreenFantasy64]

This is for sharing unpopular opinions. Not for sharing unpopular opinions than arguing to each other.
lIlI already asked that you guys be civil to each other too.
No more talk about UTAU for now.

 

[ikaroll]

i don’t think every vocaloid needs breath files. Most sound the same, and having 10 folders of breath files that I barely ever use in covers or songs is just taking up space lol

In what situation does Miku need 5 folders of breath files???

 

[andantina]

i don’t think every vocaloid needs breath files. Most sound the same, and having 10 folders of breath files that I barely ever use in covers or songs is just taking up space lol

In what situation does Miku need 5 folders of breath files???

I'm someone who barely tunes but when I do I prefer to have a variety of options for different types of music. Sometimes the breath sounds in ballad vocasongs are way too loud and desperate. Having more than 3-4 breath sounds would allow for a calmer breath option to be chosen for that song. Having a variety would be a great fit to my workflow personally but it's understandable how it would be overwhelming for other people. (And yeah 5 folders is a bit much lol, all you really need is a dozen or so)

 

[ruffe]

I guess it just depends on what your tuning and genre style/preferences are tbh! I like having a lot of breaths because of the variation in size, speed, and voiced/unvoiced breaths (like Maika and Yumemi Nemu), and I feel like they can add some emotion. And when the same breath is used it’s a little obvious.

that said, I can definitely live without them and they’re completely optional, even i don’t use them all the time just to save time.