Other Cryptonloid voicebank updates, collabs, & concert news (crypton_wat Twitter translations)
- Thread starter uncreepy
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If Kaito comes out next I’ll be so happy. He’s my favorite Cryptonloid he definitely deserves the love.
On another note this is a really good time for crypton to make this kind of move honestly if everything goes well. They’ve got two big chances coming up to really announce their big split and show they’ve moved on from vocaloid. Coachella for the global scene (what better way to expose Miku to hundreds of people who have never seen her then by showing off her NT) and Magical Mirai in December if both of these events still happen as planned.
On another note this is a really good time for crypton to make this kind of move honestly if everything goes well. They’ve got two big chances coming up to really announce their big split and show they’ve moved on from vocaloid. Coachella for the global scene (what better way to expose Miku to hundreds of people who have never seen her then by showing off her NT) and Magical Mirai in December if both of these events still happen as planned.
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I personally dont see any reason why they'd split up the Kagamines. They've sold the pair with extra voices bundled in before, i dont see why they would just stop.
And i really dont see Meiko being the next vocaloid they're gonna update. As much as it sucks, Kaito and Meiko have always been second in priority to the CV vocaloids. But i dont think there's any major problem with that. It's not like their v3 voicebanks are going anywhere.
And i really dont see Meiko being the next vocaloid they're gonna update. As much as it sucks, Kaito and Meiko have always been second in priority to the CV vocaloids. But i dont think there's any major problem with that. It's not like their v3 voicebanks are going anywhere.
My problem with them being sold together is the cost. It cost 19,800円 (about $180) for Miku NT alone and she is only going to have 3 voice banks. So if you are forced to buy both Len and Rin at once, isn't that going to cost about twice as much (over $300?), because I assume they would total 6 voice banks together? I legitimately can not see them giving up both Kagamines for $180, it makes no sense, unless they only gave them one voice bank each or something. I don't see what the big deal is about giving people the option to buy them separately or together (with a slight discount) if the producer has zero plans to use one of them. Seems more "cruel" to let one Kagamine collect dust on your computer compared to not buying one of them at all.
(I'm a twin in real life and I know you have to treat twins equally, but they are software for Pete's sake and some people just flat out don't like both Rin and Len.) They've been sold as a pair for as long as they've been around, we get it, they're a TwInS. The gimmick was necessary in the beginning to follow up Miku's success, but they're established now. The Meikas are a pair, but you can buy them separately if you want to and I don't see people up in arms about that.
Side note: Geez, Miku NT with 3 voice banks = $180, Miku for V4X Bundle costs $200 for 6 voice banks. Crypton's NT = the Apple of the vocal synth world, much?
(I'm a twin in real life and I know you have to treat twins equally, but they are software for Pete's sake and some people just flat out don't like both Rin and Len.) They've been sold as a pair for as long as they've been around, we get it, they're a TwInS. The gimmick was necessary in the beginning to follow up Miku's success, but they're established now. The Meikas are a pair, but you can buy them separately if you want to and I don't see people up in arms about that.
Side note: Geez, Miku NT with 3 voice banks = $180, Miku for V4X Bundle costs $200 for 6 voice banks. Crypton's NT = the Apple of the vocal synth world, much?
I honestly can't see that being the case. Rin and Len have always had fewer VBs than Miku. Put together, they have slightly more, but still sell for the same price. Bumping their price exponentially would be an outright ignorant move; Crypton may still be figuring the whole "New Sole Synth" thing out, but I strongly doubt they'd try to pull something like that, especially when Miku is their main darling. If anything, it'll be the same as it's always been: Rin and Len will have fewer VBs alone than Miku has and slightly more put together, but they'll be sold at the same price. (I feel like I've said "price" far too many times. Forgive me.
)Also, the aim for NT, and the reason Miku has fewer VBs, is similar to some of the features presented in V5: to have fewer VBs be able to provide wider ranges of emotions with the help of style tools, rendering 6 different VBs unnecessary. Whether that'll work out well, we'll see in the long run, but I personally think it's justified.
I'd personally be very in favor of Kaito being next. He's the next CFM 'loid I'd want, after Miku.
I'd guess they might keep the twins together just because some people won't like to see them get split up, as well as to keep that additional familiar aspect during the radical change to a new synth platform. Another plus for the bundle is that the Rin/Len V4X bundle is sold for $220, just like the Miku V4X bundle, so they're an economical choice for beginning producers who want a bigger variety of voices and want to use Rin/Len. So there might be that angle to consider in keeping them bundled, too.
Personally, I'd be very fine with them making the twins separate, with a price adjustment for them individually and/or when bundled, because it's just a more efficient setup--saves money, saves HD space if you only want one. If people are becoming more cognizant of their computer resources, it's a good move to split them because it takes that into consideration.
Lots of people have been comparing the number of VBs per synth. I think that may have been more appropriate when CFM was on Vocaloid, though; assuming that each "VB" on NT corresponds to a language (with the different append-type voice colors being applied by effectors), I believe things change a little. So I wanted to put forth a few ideas:
- If NT VB corresponds to language, then technically, Miku is the only Cryptonloid who can currently have 3 VBs, because she's the only one who can currently speak Chinese. Not to say that the others won't support Chinese eventually, because I believe that is CFM's eventual plan, but it may be a long while before we see every Cryptonloid having access to 3 languages.
- The Miku V4X bundle currently only includes Japanese and English for roughly $220 (So, $110 per language.). If NT ends up having all 3 languages for roughly $198 (So, $66 per language.), that's actually a chunk of savings. IF, of course, you don't need to buy the languages separately. I'm really, really hoping they just get added as updates, but...couldn't say for sure. It might make things easier--they could price the Cryptonloids at a flat rate based on the languages they expect to support (so everyone but Miku will seem overpriced at first until they get Chinese added). Then again, if they add in a fourth or fifth language later, I don't know how they would get paid for it in that case. Those, at least, seem like they would have to be paid updates.
I think we might get a v2 situation where appends come down the line to fill out the line up. I don't see effectors replacing appends. All the effectors seem like vocaloid parameters and yes you can use it to edit the voice but it's not the same as having a voice bank with another tone. Also don't see them killing the append brand off
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I do think that the new engine makes a part of the ~198$. I can see them selling the engine and voicebanks separately after Miku is done and more voices are ready to be released.
The buzz in Miku NT is really noticeable and quite annoying. I think she'd sound very good if they fixed that. If it persists in the final release I don't know if I'll be able to enjoy her, but I have faith that they'll clean her up.
I would be ecstatic if Rin and Len were split up. I think they're both good enough vocals to stand on their own and treating them as a pair restricts their potential. Maybe splitting them up will slowly lead to both getting the amount of attention they deserve. And it's certainly more fair for producers since most only want to use one. Actually I would be flabbergasted if they don't finally introduce an option to buy them separately. So many people have wasted money already when they only want one Kagamine... I have some interest in starting to make covers if Rin NT is good, and I'd hate to just have that other funny boy taking up my wallet (and HDD space). Sorry Len you're cool ;-;
I'm gonna be sad if they're the last to get updated AGAIN, but it'd be understandable... and as poserP said, I hope they revive their V2s!
I would be ecstatic if Rin and Len were split up. I think they're both good enough vocals to stand on their own and treating them as a pair restricts their potential. Maybe splitting them up will slowly lead to both getting the amount of attention they deserve. And it's certainly more fair for producers since most only want to use one. Actually I would be flabbergasted if they don't finally introduce an option to buy them separately. So many people have wasted money already when they only want one Kagamine... I have some interest in starting to make covers if Rin NT is good, and I'd hate to just have that other funny boy taking up my wallet (and HDD space). Sorry Len you're cool ;-;
I'm gonna be sad if they're the last to get updated AGAIN, but it'd be understandable... and as poserP said, I hope they revive their V2s!
Okay, I am not sure how to say this, but I vented on Twitter last night about being unsure if NT is going to have Cherry Pie and am embarrassed to say that apparently us Western fans have been living a lie and they aren't the same software. So I am so sorry to anyone who was lead to believe we would get Cherry Pie, I feel partially responsible. I talked to some bilingual Japanese fans and they said that I was wrong to assume Cherry Pie would be included with NT because Crypton never flat out said it.
But in my defense, there was not much information to go on. Crypton shared the Cherry Pie demo and were working on NT at the same time. Wat kept saying the software was easy to use and semi-automatic. AIST, who made VocaListener, helped Crypton make NT, so why wouldn't we think it would be included? On top of the fact that both Cherry Pie and NT use terms like effectors and have overlap in features (ex: scream function). And us non-Japanese fans had no access to attend their presentations on NT. Eji said that there were less than 2 people attending (not counting teachers). Crypton should have been more transparent in what they were doing.
I feel so horrible and very embarrassed, sorry I wasted 2 years following Crypton so closely and spent countless hours painstakingly translating and then finding out unceremoniously that we were wrong. I can't describe the pain finding out a large chunk of this 39 page thread, which started on VocaloidOtaku, contains misinformation. The translations aren't wrong, I think they are some of my best work. It's just that the dots that I connected based on the information available was assuming too much.
Thanks to the people who comforted me about this realization. But I feel quite bad about how emotional I got throughout the years this thread existed insisting things I assumed were facts and how emotionally invested I got. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings in the past. I don't know how long it will take to feel okay again and get over this. I think I need a break from anything Crypton related for a long time. So don't expect me to translate any new tweets relating to NT in the near future. I might if I feel generous, but I feel like I am mad at myself and Crypton right now.
But in my defense, there was not much information to go on. Crypton shared the Cherry Pie demo and were working on NT at the same time. Wat kept saying the software was easy to use and semi-automatic. AIST, who made VocaListener, helped Crypton make NT, so why wouldn't we think it would be included? On top of the fact that both Cherry Pie and NT use terms like effectors and have overlap in features (ex: scream function). And us non-Japanese fans had no access to attend their presentations on NT. Eji said that there were less than 2 people attending (not counting teachers). Crypton should have been more transparent in what they were doing.
I feel so horrible and very embarrassed, sorry I wasted 2 years following Crypton so closely and spent countless hours painstakingly translating and then finding out unceremoniously that we were wrong. I can't describe the pain finding out a large chunk of this 39 page thread, which started on VocaloidOtaku, contains misinformation. The translations aren't wrong, I think they are some of my best work. It's just that the dots that I connected based on the information available was assuming too much.
Thanks to the people who comforted me about this realization. But I feel quite bad about how emotional I got throughout the years this thread existed insisting things I assumed were facts and how emotionally invested I got. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings in the past. I don't know how long it will take to feel okay again and get over this. I think I need a break from anything Crypton related for a long time. So don't expect me to translate any new tweets relating to NT in the near future. I might if I feel generous, but I feel like I am mad at myself and Crypton right now.
I'm sorry but I think this is kind of a silly complaint. I also like the gimmick that Rin/Len come as a pair, but the way they've always been done is to each have slightly fewer banks than Miku and then sold at the same price. So if someone genuinely likes Rin or Len but doesn't care for the other, it's no more money spent than on any other Cryptonloid, to just buy them both and use only one. Who does it hurt? lol
Anyway, as for the discussion, I doubt they'll split them. If they give them the same number of banks as Miku they may raise the price a bit, but as others have pointed out -- there is no Yamaha holding a price tag over anyone's heads here anymore. Crypton can put out new banks or updates whenever they want to now. We'll just have to sit tight and see :)
Also I strongly believe KaiMei will come out next. A. they're on V3, and B. their statue fundraiser hit what, 24 million yen? So Crypton knows they have demand and people willing to pay. I don't think they'll underestimate those two again, lol. Luka will probably come after if only bc her V4X's setup was a bit different than the others, and EVEC didn't work out as well as we could've hoped, so she deserves a really well-done update! :>
As a prototype I think Miku NT has a lot of potential, and I look forward to seeing her full product! Obv I don't have her myself, but in other people's uses they can make her sound really nice! She does have really noticeable engine noise, but that could be sorted out down the line (I hope). As for tone, I'll give it a pass as an unfinished bank, but there is something markedly... "hollow" about it, in most uses I've heard? So I hope she sounds more like "Miku" on full release. Definitely high hopes for the product, but my current thoughts match what a friend said -- as of yet there's no big pluses to NT that V4X doesn't have, so why re-buy her at this point?
Hey, I know it sucks to be wrong, but I don’t think you should feel bad that you were apparently wrong and Cherry Pie didn’t end up being part of NT. I mean wasn’t Wat hyping it up quite a bit and hasn’t it been used quite a few times throughout this thread? It’s only natural to think it’d be included given that both softwares were hyped up at the same time. Maybe we can still hope for Cherry Pie when the “finished” version of NT comes out. Who knows?
(Haven’t we learned by now that Crypton kind of handles things awkwardly? No shade to them, of course!)
(Haven’t we learned by now that Crypton kind of handles things awkwardly? No shade to them, of course!)
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^ Wow, agreed. Given the context we HAD, which wasn't a whole lot, I think it was a very fair assumption to make. I'd pin the blame more on ambiguity on Crypton's side, but sometimes these mistakes just happen with no (or, perhaps, equal) fault on either side. I get wanting to step away for a bit though. Please take care Uncreepy! :(
I've been reading the Piapro NT manual. Contrary to the way NT currently behaves, it looks like it's at least intended that there could be more than one region per track--the pen tool can supposedly make more, and it's supposed to be possible to delete them/etc.
Unfortunately, the Glue tool is still listed as "coming soon" :( .
(Please, CFM--this is gonna be your flagship software. Don't leave the glue tool issue from old Piapro to sit as it is. Just, for the sake of pride... iron that sh*t out.)
Oh, hey, cool--IIRC, it was hard to change the tempo/meter mid-track before, but now you can just write it into the meter/tempo track! Cool!
Unfortunately, the Glue tool is still listed as "coming soon" :( .
(Please, CFM--this is gonna be your flagship software. Don't leave the glue tool issue from old Piapro to sit as it is. Just, for the sake of pride... iron that sh*t out.)
Oh, hey, cool--IIRC, it was hard to change the tempo/meter mid-track before, but now you can just write it into the meter/tempo track! Cool!
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You were blessed with knowledge and forgiveness for Miku herself on her number. It can't be a coincidence!
lol sorry, I couldn't help it.
Actually though, you took years of work bringing information here. You don't need to feel so guilty. You were wrong and now you accepted it, and that's more important.
After all, It was a small mistake in a big pile of information correctly translated and interpreted :D
So, by the way, thank you for your work so far <3
Hm... So in all of those impressive talkloid things they showed off using the NT banks, were they really using Cherry Pie? It seems like something exciting to us users, so to say that it might not be released or even related to NT... It makes me think that maybe they were using a completely different software for it in the end, unless I'm just going crazy.
I still don't understand what the point of teasing us with those demonstrations all this time was if they're not going to release it.
tbh, NT is not very impressive without Cherry Pie
I didn't see it doing anything Synth-V can't do for free and arguably better
Prototype or not, there are many options nowadays, and except for having Miku's name on it, it's not very impressive.
CeVIO did not have vibratos in its initial trial version either, for example, but it included a speech system
What is the remarkable or unique function of NT besides having Miku?
I didn't see it doing anything Synth-V can't do for free and arguably better
Prototype or not, there are many options nowadays, and except for having Miku's name on it, it's not very impressive.
CeVIO did not have vibratos in its initial trial version either, for example, but it included a speech system
What is the remarkable or unique function of NT besides having Miku?
I think only time will tell us whether or not Piapro NT will sink or swim in the sea of vocal synths in terms of quality. (though it'll inevitably do good on the financial front because it's Miku (unless they REALLY fuck up somehow)) Like people have said before, it doesn't offer much right off the bat. However. Its a good thing to keep in mind that the full version won't be released until around August. (and even then it'll likely be delayed) It may be that when August comes (assuming they're on time) that NT will have some good things going for it, or it may not. They already said they're going to fix the vibrato issue, but we have no idea what else they've got planned. And its gonna have to be something significant in order to stand against the competition.
And as for Cherry Pie, i wouldn't count it out just yet. They never said they weren't going to give it a commercial release, only that they hadn't considered it yet, and that they'll consider it now. It seems kinda silly to go through all the trouble of making such useful technology and not sell it to the public. Also, didn't they say they intended for Cherry Pie to be used by VTubers? It would significantly limit the ability to reach its intended audience if it wasn't made commercially available. Though now I have more reason to believe that if they do sell Cherry Pie to the public, it'll probably be its own standalone plugin/software.
And as for Cherry Pie, i wouldn't count it out just yet. They never said they weren't going to give it a commercial release, only that they hadn't considered it yet, and that they'll consider it now. It seems kinda silly to go through all the trouble of making such useful technology and not sell it to the public. Also, didn't they say they intended for Cherry Pie to be used by VTubers? It would significantly limit the ability to reach its intended audience if it wasn't made commercially available. Though now I have more reason to believe that if they do sell Cherry Pie to the public, it'll probably be its own standalone plugin/software.