By the way, it ANY Miku is eligible for the upgrade price, not just V4x, in case anyone was wondering.
Other Cryptonloid voicebank updates, collabs, & concert news (crypton_wat Twitter translations)
- Thread starter uncreepy
- Start date
I was really hoping that they’d separate the voicebanks from the editor. The bundled editor is one of the reasons I never purchased more Cryptonloids. I guess it is possible that they’ll decide to sell Piapro separately at a later date.
Honestly with the upgrade price it's really not bad for Miku users at all, huh. I'd probably expect that they're bundling it with her now so that everyone has it, and then maybe they'll sell unbundled voicebanks at a lower cost later on. Makes sense to just have the one price for now, anyway. Who would buy a voicebank withou the editor when it's the only voicebank available?
Yeah I wish more libraries could be bought solo. Miku V4e confuses me bc there's two price options, and I don't know if a bundled editor is the only difference.
On the topic of solo libraries (currently on Sonicwire):
- Miku V4e
- Kagamine V4e
- Miku V3 Light
- Miku V3 Vivid
It's at least nice that any Miku owner can get the upgrade price, instead of just V4x. Also, agree that it makes sense to bundle Miku with the editor when she's the first release. I'm willing to bet that later Crypton releases will come with a bundle or solo voicebank option. Crossing my fingers that Kaito and Meiko are next, since they're still on V3 (although I know this is premature, when we still have 8 months for Miku's release LOL)
I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if Meiko got released next because of the attention she's been getting and the fact she's in that Pocari Sweat Olympics thing. I think the Kagamines have had the least mentions during this entire voicebank updating process, so they might be last. But who knows.
I also think that Miku will be the only one who suffers through this weird beta release, because the interface/engine isn't completely ready, but they are letting us try it out early despite that. Once the final version comes in August, the engine/interface will be ready for good, so I think the voice banks released after will be MUCH quicker and won't have beta at all.
I also think that Miku will be the only one who suffers through this weird beta release, because the interface/engine isn't completely ready, but they are letting us try it out early despite that. Once the final version comes in August, the engine/interface will be ready for good, so I think the voice banks released after will be MUCH quicker and won't have beta at all.
I have good faith that Crypton knows what they're doing, and I think it's smart that they're using Miku first. After all, she's their most popular one and is a safe choice because she wasn't (to my knowledge) known for having major issues in the past (compared to, say, the Kagamines). Also, people consider her easy to use, so assuming that holds true with NT, if Piapro has any issues she may not be as harshly affected.
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the next voicebanks, and I'm hoping they fix NT's choppiness (I know the demo was untuned, but untuned V4x doesn't have any choppiness that I've noticed). I'm crossing my fingers that the Kagamines won't be last (not that I need to hurry up and buy them, though, since I already have their V4s) because I'm anxious to hear what they sound like on the new engine (moreso Len than Rin, since Mitchie used Rin recently with the new Piapro).
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the next voicebanks, and I'm hoping they fix NT's choppiness (I know the demo was untuned, but untuned V4x doesn't have any choppiness that I've noticed). I'm crossing my fingers that the Kagamines won't be last (not that I need to hurry up and buy them, though, since I already have their V4s) because I'm anxious to hear what they sound like on the new engine (moreso Len than Rin, since Mitchie used Rin recently with the new Piapro).
I feel like the main reason they are releasing Miku first is because she was the first voicebank they got to the farthest stages and tested her the most through collabs, so she got most of the bugs worked out compared to everyone else. Actually, around the STV collab time, she had been mentioned as being in "alpha" stage (no one else has ever been mentioned as being in alpha). Now she's in beta on her product page.
For the demo song being choppy, Wat said that they were going for UTAU-style phonemes (that sound like CV but are actually CVVC). He said in the next demo it will be more natural and use some of the singing styles available in NT. The demo will be in January, so we don't have to wait too much longer.
I assume when they are getting ready to release the next character's NT, they will probably go bananas and spotlight them (kind of like what's happening to Meiko)?
For the demo song being choppy, Wat said that they were going for UTAU-style phonemes (that sound like CV but are actually CVVC). He said in the next demo it will be more natural and use some of the singing styles available in NT. The demo will be in January, so we don't have to wait too much longer.
I assume when they are getting ready to release the next character's NT, they will probably go bananas and spotlight them (kind of like what's happening to Meiko)?
I'm disappointed with this news, and just consider the new Miku several steps back, even if the new editor has some probably decent new functions. I'm not at all a fan of Crypton going back to the older versions of their products. What then was the point of the V3 and V4 updates and their higher quality samples and added features? I'm hoping their V3's and V4's will remain available, because those are the only ones I'm considering getting. Plus my Mac can't run the new Piapro, although I could run it on my Windows PC.
V4X literally used V2 and Append's samples.... V3 was mostly V2's samples too. Wat just works and works with those samples and improves both the sound and "Miku-ness" of them so that they sound as much like her as possible. V3 didn't really have and added features from V2 and V4X's were mostly experiemental as was every Crypton VB on the engine. NT will most likely iterate on this and move some of the features to being engine-native.
As an aside, I really don't get this whole "Miku is worse now" narrative people have going. I want to start by saying I am by no means a Crypton whiteknight or Miku defender, in fact I have far more criticisms of the voicebanks than I do things to praise. But, and this is a big but, I actually think Wat has made the right move here. He's already stated that this demo was meant to sound like a CV UTAU to evoke that sort of feeling from the listener, and said that the next demo would be smoother, so it's not like she's THAT choppy anyway if he's going to say that (and really it doesn't sound choppy at all imho, her consonants just have stupidly high attack). In terms of voice quality it seems like Wat managed to improve a ton on what he did for V4X, which I was already kind of impressed by judging that the samples are now at least 12 years old. Other than that, we really, really have not heard enough for people to be acting like this is the end of the world and that Miku V3 (horrid voicebanks btw) and V4X are better purchases. It's less than 3 minutes of untuned voice on relatively fast songs, on a brand new engine. There are 8 months until Miku NT releases, which is more than enough time to make significant improvements on Japanese voicebanks. Hell, you could develop like 4 Japanese voicebanks for VOCALOID in that time. Really I wish people would have a bit more common sense in their criticism here and in other places and remember that a very small sample is never reflective of a voicebank. It's kinda unrelated, but I really hope we can some day show the finalised demonstrations for a certain singer who some people may be familiar with (and was slated greatly), because it really goes to show how much can change.
/rant?
Thank you! I get the feelings of unease and apprehension and skepticism, but it's her beta, and an unfinished beta at that. Who knows how much more improvement they'll make between now and then? It's too soon to say whether they perfected Miku or ruined her, far too soon. We don't have much to go on right now.
@Overcast Immortal I was wondering, because you like metal (mainly specializing in doom metal-type songs), I had been thinking that you would have been excited for the new Piapro because it has features that rock/metal genre producers would like. Specifically Voice Drive (previously known as VocalDrive which has several preset types of screams ranging from a small flair to straight up death growl) and HS Booster (which stretches words out and appears to be able to be paired with Voice Drive), in addition to Cherry Pie letting you manually edit the aperiodicity. Are you not excited about those features?
Also, there is no way that Crypton is going to stop selling their Vocaloid versions of the characters. They recently had a sale to promote Miku Chinese and have been talking back and forth with Yamaha (not to mention the collab for that history of Vocaloid thing Wat and the Yamaha Vocaloid poobah did together this year). I think if they suddenly discontinued the Vocaloid versions, people would be so angry. They continue to make money off of the Vocaloid voicebanks, too, so I don't think it would be logical to stop selling them and lose that sweet moolah.
Also, there is no way that Crypton is going to stop selling their Vocaloid versions of the characters. They recently had a sale to promote Miku Chinese and have been talking back and forth with Yamaha (not to mention the collab for that history of Vocaloid thing Wat and the Yamaha Vocaloid poobah did together this year). I think if they suddenly discontinued the Vocaloid versions, people would be so angry. They continue to make money off of the Vocaloid voicebanks, too, so I don't think it would be logical to stop selling them and lose that sweet moolah.
I think the worst they will do in this regard for a long time is retire the V3 voicebanks when they get their NTs, since they'll be getting pretty old by that point. V3 hasn't been the main software for VOCALOID for 5 years now!
I certainly love growling, but I'm not much a fan of growling made from distorted singing. I prefer my growl synths to work off of samples of live growling, such as with Hakaine Maiko or Marie Ork. I've found UTAU and Alter/Ego can give decent growling results from singing samples, but I do not have evidence of whether the new Piapro's VocalDrive will sound good to me.
Remember v2 beta English Miku it was a completely different voice bank than her v3 it's very much can change especially when they get feedback. I'm actually really surprised that they are launching with Miku I feel like they should pull a v3 and release kaito first and then Miku with the knowledge they gained from the first bank. Miku is a huge seller so crypton isn't going to mess it up at least for Japanese
I'm glad to hear that. It's easier to make a natural voice sound "mechanical", than to make a mechanical voice sound natural.
I look forward to the next demo.
I look forward to the next demo.
Even if Miku NT ends up with the quality of Kagamine Act 1 or Luka V4x, iirc the new engine would allow for free updates without the need of re-making the voicebank like VOCALOID, so I don’t think it would be that bad (expect for day one buyers I guess), but on the other side, there’s no way Crypton would mess their golden girl, specially when she’ll be the face of a whole new (well, improved) product of theirs. I think we just need to wait for more demos, specially for those that showcase what the engine.
if thats supposedly an untuned demo and it sounds like tuned v2, i feel like the tuning plus all of the new features could make for a pretty dang good vocal. i see the problems, but im... excited
Is it really a narrative when it's only me and one other person saying "I don't really see how this is an improvement"?
Admittedly, in my case it has more to do with the issue of branding. Like, I don't care when any other virtual vocal software moves from one engine to another because none of them are as tied to the name "Vocaloid" as the cryptonloids are, even Yamaha's first-party 'loids. There have been tons of songs produced by this community utilizing Miku-n-pals which directly reference Vocaloid BY NAME, not to mention official merch I have in my own possession, like art books, light novels, figurines and the like. None of the other 3rd party Vocaloids have that level of connection to the brand name, so switching engines has never been an issue. I didn't think anything of it when IA joined her sister ONE on Cevio because IA just isn't connected to Vocaloid as strongly in pop culture. But Miku is STILL getting referred to as a Vocaloid, even in songs which were apparently produced with this new Piapro, because that's just how closely these things are associated with each other. The person who produced the video for Seraphim on the Ring didn't hesitate to call it "Vocaloid wrestling federation" because why would they? They idea of Miku without Vocaloid is kinda crazy. Which is why there are people in the comment section of the Miku NT demo saying "well, I'm gonna keep calling her a Vocaloid, I don't care what any of you say".
With how much I'm typing, I'm sure I'm coming off really angry and butt-hurt, but I promise I'm not. I'm just baffled and unimpressed. I'm gonna keep buying merch and CDs so long as new songs are being made with these characters, but as someone who remembers being a part of this fandom BACK IN THE DAY when people didn't know the difference between fan characters and actual Vocaloids or even that Vocaloid was software, I'm not looking forward to all the misinformation about What is/isn't Miku/"a real Vocaloid" and as such, I'm probably going to be really cranky about people in the fandom not knowing their shit.
Trust me, there are plenty of people complaining every day on Twitter (at least among the people I follow in the fandom). ^^;
~~~~~~~~
Also, I am actually pretty annoyed that a lot of people in this thread are like "Oh man, I can't figure out if I hate new Piapro or not, we only got this one untuned demo!" Er... we have more sound clips that than. I've been posting links to song/talking clips using the new technology every couple pages for over a year. Guess I have no choice but to remind you all that we actually already know what Miku/the other Cryptonloids sounds like (except the Kagamines)! And no one complained when I posted these, they gave the posts thumbs up and liked what they heard/were excited (except for mainly me complaining about Cherry Pie), but all of a sudden when it gets the label NT people are flipping their lids. I will be referring to most of these as alpha Miku (before we knew the software was called Miku NT). [Will post the tea under the next paragraph.]
Bottom line, Crypton had ideas for what they wanted their vocals to be able to do (especially related to concert technology and collaborations with musicians and products). Yamaha didn't deliver. AIST (VocaListener people who also helped Crypton with the Kiite music service and won Songle) helped them get the technology they need to be competitive in the virtual idol market. Just because they're hopping software doesn't mean much to me. The old Vocaloid versions of them will still be around. Most people don't own every single voice bank/version of the Cryptonloids anyway. : /
~~~~~~~
Might be obvious, but earlier examples sound worse compared to newest. Also, huge suprise, most of the clips are of Miku. Gee, I wonder why she got picked first for NT. Note that EVERY Cryptonloid had their name mentioned a few times during this entire process by Wat as they took turns tweaking them even if clips weren't available.
(I used hyperlinks to these clips so the sheer amount of media doesn't "break" VocaVerse.)
April 20, 2018
[pre-alpha]
Miku talking with Cherry Pie for Shinkalion anime
April 27, 2018
[pre-alpha]
Miku talking with Cherry Pie for Shinkalion anime
Note: Miku has become a regular character on Shinkalion (initially it was just 2 episodes planned). I have watched like 10ish episodes of Shinkalion and heard her in them.
June 18, 2018
[pre-alpha]
Miku talking with Cherry Pie for STV collab
July 9, 2018
[pre-alpha]
Miku rapping with Cherry Pie as a collab with pinoko
and
Miku talking with Cherry Pie for Snow Miku collab
July 9, 2018
Wat reveals that the voices are in alpha.
October 28, 2019
[alpha]
Miku singing with Cherry Pie for Tokyo 150 Year Festival
January 25, 2019
[alpha]
Luka's updated voice during her anniversary month (have to turn the volume literally all the way up to hear it)
Note: Luka's new voice was demoed at Kawasaki Jazz Fest, but there are no clips available. It was described as sounding very emotive.
March 7, 2019
[alpha]
In the 2nd half of the video, human voices are converted to Miku's with Cherry Pie. (Official VocalDrive/Cherry Pie demo.)
April 3, 2019
[alpha]
Kaito talking with Cherry Pie, tuned. (nyanyannya)
April 4, 2019
[alpha]
Miku talking with Cherry Pie for Sony collab
April 10, 2019
[alpha]
(Miku Symphony)
Miku talking with Cherry Pie (at the beginning of the video, and about 1 min in, 3:40, 5:30ish).
Luka talking with Cherry Pie (at about 1:50).
Teto talks at about 3:50 for those with tinfoil hats who think she might end up on new Piapro.
All 3 at 8:20ish.
Link
May 24, 2019
[alpha]
Kaito talking with Cherry Pie, untuned. (nyanyannya)
August 18, 2019
Ryo (main developer of Cherry Pie, effector plug-ins, and deep-learning-related projects) working on a prototype for Beef Jerky (real-time voice analysis).
Note: The voice isn't a Cryptonloid, it's from Seiyuu Toukei Corpus (日本声優統計学会)
Link
August 29, 2019
[alpha]
Mitchie-M uses HS Booster (stretches words) and VocalDrive (now called Voice Drive) to make Kaito scream.
Seraphim On The Ring
August 31, 2019
[alpha]
Interface of new Piapro teased at Magical Mirai.
September 2, 2019
Ryo releases a new demo of Beef Jerky and talked about working on the interface of new Piapro.
Note: Singing isn't a Cryptonloid.
Link
October 11, 2019
Crypton and Yamaha have a talk session sharing behind the scenes details about their companies working together for Vocaloid. The event was called "NoMaps Yamaha x Crypton Vocal Synthesis Technology & Culture Talk Session".
December 4, 2019
[alpha]
(Miku Symphony)
Miku talking with Cherry Pie (at the intro, about 2 min in)
Meiko talks at about 3:40.
Link
December 6, 2019
[alpha]
Miku talking at the intro with Cherry Pie for Magical Mirai.
December 22, 2019
Miku Chinese free update said the phonemes "have been updated with the new technology and improved for things like articulation and tone quality". It's not Miku NT, but the softness of the tone sounds similar.
One
Two
Three
Four
December 24, 2019
[first beta demo]
Miku singing untuned for the promo of Miku NT protoype (beta) version.
Compiling this made me realize that to my knowledge, we haven't heard the Kagamines at all yet. (They have been mentioned as being worked on, though.)
Note: It's possible I missed some proof, because some was concert-exclusive and I'm just one person.
----------------
Update 4-17-20: Below are new examples from 2020.
February 27th, 2020
[beta]
Pocari Sweat ad
March 16, 2020
Sonicwire product page updates to include more features
March 29, 2020
Ryo has updated Beef Jerky's interface and reveals it's for iPhone
April 11, 2020
Nyanyannya uses Cherry Pie to make Rin and Miku NT sing with data made with AI Kiritan
April 14, 2020
Clip of Miku talking during a cutscene for Project Sekai
April 16, 2020
Clip of Rin talking during a cutscene for Project Sekai
April 17, 2020
Len talking during Project Sekai cutscene
April 18, 2020
Luka talking (in English and Japanese) during Project Sekai cutscene
April 19, 2020
Meiko talking during Project Sekai cutscene
April 20, 2020
Kaito talking during Project Sekai cutscene
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