Unpopular Opinions
- Thread starter TheStarPalace
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The question we don't know the answer to is how much can a third party change their voicebank without re-releasing it. e.g. If they totally rerecord the samples, can that be pushed as an update, or does it have to be a separate product? Arcane implies the latter. If so, I wouldn't mind more companies releasing free 'sequels' to their voicebanks to keep them optimised for new features!
It's also very likely that Audiologie is using this as an opportunity for a soft relaunch - a way to catch the attention of potential buyers who previously overlooked her. Even if it were possible to push this change as an update, making it a whole new product is better marketing. If a product improves dramatically in an update, people might not notice, but a relaunch creates hype. Rebranding also makes it easier to tell if people are talking about the new Anri or the old Anri when giving their opinions.
It's also very likely that Audiologie is using this as an opportunity for a soft relaunch - a way to catch the attention of potential buyers who previously overlooked her. Even if it were possible to push this change as an update, making it a whole new product is better marketing. If a product improves dramatically in an update, people might not notice, but a relaunch creates hype. Rebranding also makes it easier to tell if people are talking about the new Anri or the old Anri when giving their opinions.
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I consider it a soft relaunch since they also have phased out Anri's schoolgirl outfit and wrote a new character bio.
Got a number of similar, yet related opinions/complaints this time:
1. I'm pretty sure I complained a while ago about producers tuning Miku way too high in recent years, to the point that she sounds like the chipmunk people who hate Miku say she is. A related issue I've just started to notice is that some producers try to make Miku sound so "realistic" (I.e. abuse functioms like vibrato and call it a day) that it ends up falling under the uncanny valley and sounds unsettlingly unrealistic instead. Now imagine combining chipmunk Miku with bad "realistic" tuning (and yes, I did find a song like this recently)...
1.5. Expanding on the issues with Miku usages, I've been listening to some classic Vocaloid songs from the V2 era more recently, and to be honest, some examples of old school "flat" tuning don't get enough credit. The recent drive for excessive realism for all vocal synths (not just Miku) has made me appreciate unrealistic tuning even more, because especially for the Cryptonloids and similar character banks, they were never intended to sound realistic to begin with, so certain attempts at realism fly headfirst into the uncanny valley. (Not all the time, as Mitchie M managed to prove, but still). One of my favourite examples of old school "flat" tuning is 'Tautology' by m@rk, because while Miku clearly isn't pushed to any limits in that song, she still manages to sound a bit deeper than usual for the time (before her Appends came out) without triggering any unease.
TL;DR: Producers are sometimes better off not worrying about realism, and should just let a vocal synth be a synth.
2. Another Miku opinion - Miku English either sounds surprisingly good or absolutely crap. There rarely seems to be any results in-between those two extremes.Needless to say, I can see why some people experiment with Miku Solid instead - because Solid enunciates all consonants clearly, Engrish turns out surprisingly well.
2.5. Come to think of it, Miku English's issues seems to be common among all non-native banks. If a producer doesn't edit the hell out of the phonemes, it's not gonna sound like decent English, let alone good English.
1. I'm pretty sure I complained a while ago about producers tuning Miku way too high in recent years, to the point that she sounds like the chipmunk people who hate Miku say she is. A related issue I've just started to notice is that some producers try to make Miku sound so "realistic" (I.e. abuse functioms like vibrato and call it a day) that it ends up falling under the uncanny valley and sounds unsettlingly unrealistic instead. Now imagine combining chipmunk Miku with bad "realistic" tuning (and yes, I did find a song like this recently)...
1.5. Expanding on the issues with Miku usages, I've been listening to some classic Vocaloid songs from the V2 era more recently, and to be honest, some examples of old school "flat" tuning don't get enough credit. The recent drive for excessive realism for all vocal synths (not just Miku) has made me appreciate unrealistic tuning even more, because especially for the Cryptonloids and similar character banks, they were never intended to sound realistic to begin with, so certain attempts at realism fly headfirst into the uncanny valley. (Not all the time, as Mitchie M managed to prove, but still). One of my favourite examples of old school "flat" tuning is 'Tautology' by m@rk, because while Miku clearly isn't pushed to any limits in that song, she still manages to sound a bit deeper than usual for the time (before her Appends came out) without triggering any unease.
TL;DR: Producers are sometimes better off not worrying about realism, and should just let a vocal synth be a synth.
2. Another Miku opinion - Miku English either sounds surprisingly good or absolutely crap. There rarely seems to be any results in-between those two extremes.
2.5. Come to think of it, Miku English's issues seems to be common among all non-native banks. If a producer doesn't edit the hell out of the phonemes, it's not gonna sound like decent English, let alone good English.
You know, I don't really mind however people want to use banks even if they aren't to my taste, but I will actually agree that the trend of people attempting realistic vocals that end up overusing every parameter to where they end up overshooting and sound unrealistic again, is a little unfortunate
I agree on the point of unnecessarily dramatic amounts of tuning. Also, untuned/lightly-tuned Avanna (see a lot of early-mid-2010s stuff; there is some newer stuff as well) can be oddly calming
THIS! I've been starting to call it overtuning and I absolutely agree with you, especially if it's a V4x Dark & Solid XSY with growls. I do think this is mostly an issue with Miku usages but I've also seen it with Rin, flower or Teto. Personally I do like robotic, stylized and realistic tuning in theory. Good examples of realistic tuning are all Bibi-tuned songs in general
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Overtuning should definitely become a fandom term, because that's what concretely explains the issue. Don't get me wrong, I love some good realistic tuning (even with Miku), but producers need to remember that human voices naturally don't sound like vocal synths when parameters are pushed to their max levels.
I think it's important to distinguish "overtuning" (instrument is "overtuned" in pursuit of realism) from intentional stylistic choices. I think it's cool when producers move away from treating it as a voice and more like an instrument. This is why I personally have no qualms with high-pitched Miku.
Indiscriminate use of vocal fry, growl, and/or extreme pitch bends can are definitely pet peeves of mine, but whats been bothering me lately is that English synths only seem to be tuned to sound like Ariana Grande or singers with that sort of singing style anymore. I’m also not liking the forced American accent that people put on non native English vbs.
I do agree with the fact there is a sort of "tuning leveling" trend nowadays in pursuit of realism, which is especially true for English synths and which risks to limit the overall creative possibilities. "unnatural" yet stylistic tuning is great and very underrated in my opinion, I think going back to how synths were used in the early years and trying to combine it with how we conceive them today could really bring a whole new meaning and experience to it!
Ohh! I really like your take on it.
Everytime I read people complaining about overtuning I was kinda: "Okay, but what is overtune? What you want people to do then?". Although you didn't talked about what overtune meant to u, u told how you want people to tune.
Well, as someone who used to have that opinion simply because I disliked SynthV (My mind is changing a bit by bit) I think I really don't have any problem with overtuning. Of course, there are people who know how to overtune and there are people that don't know how to overtune, as musch as people who know how to tune like "the old days" and people who don't know how to tune like it.
But may take on this is that I really don't see any problem with overtuning and realistical tuning. I guess there are songs and songs, and I want to be a really good tuner who is able to tune any song in whatever the style I want (Being it overtuning or not). What I want to say is that people are hating on realisticaly and overtuned vocaloid covers too much.
Kaiske and Rishie, for example, are amazing overtuning tuners. Sometimes it sounds not very pleasant, but overall I really like how strong they're able to do their covers. There is always something about their dyn and pitch playing that surprises you every new song they cover and because of that I'm always happy to see more of their work. Deco is not a overtuner and, let's be honest, if you heard one Deco song you probably already heard everything else. Not because his songs are similar (Tho they kinda are), but because it's not tuned at all. And I dare to say it is for every other "famous" producer like Wowaka and the creator of Kagerou series.
Tho I criticized these guys above, I really love their songs and, for example, Tanjiro's covers started to not get into my taste and he is a overtuner, so...
I think the point here is that the problem is not if you're overtuning or not, but if you're being creative and managing to make the covers as unique and with as much personality as you can. Overtuning is not bad and undertuning isn't either, what is bad is you as a tuner not understanding what are the emotions of the songs you're covering and how to convey them, or how to exploit certain parts of the song to create something more original.
Anyway, if people are having fun with what they're doing with Vocaloid that's already enough for me. Being them an overtuner or not.
I'll throw in my own two cents here and then some opinions that have been on my mind~
I'll start by saying I think I'm a little biased, I'm not interested in synths because of how realistic they can be. That being said, I consider "over tuning" the overuse of vocal techniques used for expression, primarily vibrato, growl, vocal fry, and vocal runs. In singing, it's absolutely possible to over sing a song, so I think over tuning can be a fair criticism sometimes. In synths, the one I see most often is overuse of vibrato, and it just ends up making vocals sound really shaky, even if they're intended to be powerful. When I was more involved in singing/performing, the advice that was always given to me was you don't need anything fancy to be a good, emotional singer, and in fact, sometimes all those extra decorations can distract from the emotions you're trying to convey. They should be deliberate decisions, used sparingly for that real impact, and not something you use just because you know how. I think that holds true for vocal synth covers in a way too, but I almost never go out of my way to listen to covers to begin with.
Though I also appreciate over tuning if only for the fact that it keeps the art of self-tuning alive in the midst of AI synths where everything is automated and quite honestly, singers sound much less unique in songs. They sound good and make the process easier, but part of a Vocaloid song for me is recognizing a producer's distinct style, I could always tell which producer it was from how the vocal sounded, even if they tried something completely new in composition.
I guess to continue from there, I feel really conflicted about Gumi on SynthV. Nothing against the VB at all, and I'm really, really happy about this new normal of voices on multiple engines. I think it's just the nail in the coffin that realistic voices and AI isn't really what I am looking for in synths. Don't get me wrong, I own a lot of SynthV VBs and I really enjoy using the engine, same for CeVIO AI and Voicespeak, but as a listener, Gumi V6 and SynthV probably won't be what I think of when I think Gumi for a long time, and they probably won't be my preference in finding Gumi content. I really am that person that is an avid user of AI synths, but will never go out of my way to find content with them because when I'm in the mood to listen to synth music, I want that synth sound.
And a couple Miku-centric ones I've been thinking about: I don't mind the lack of development news on Crypton's end, and I personally don't think Miku really needs any new VB at this point other than for modern PC support. For a lot of other voices, updates are a way of keeping a voice fresh and relevant, but Miku has been so much more than just a synthesized voice for so long. To me, whether or not she gets new VBs won't change my decision to use her or listen to her, she's absolutely still the voice I listen to most and V4X is still a really strong product imo. If NT got more public updates/releases or if Miku got a new VB elsewhere, I'd very, very likely still be interested in buying it, but I'm also just happy with Miku.
And the big one to end it off, I massively prefer Miku Expo as a VR experience than in-person. An in-person concert is a really cool experience, and I think every Miku fan should get the opportunity to see her perform in that setting, but after the first couple times, I think the biggest draw of a concert like that is the community aspect and getting to find other Miku fans. There is only so many ways you can innovate and build off a concert with a fictional star. Seeing Miku in my world is great, but I personally love the creative possibilities of going into Miku's world. I guess I just always loved Project Diva PVs, and a VR Miku concert can really feel like you're being pullled into a PV and watching it all happen around you in a really cool way.
I'll start by saying I think I'm a little biased, I'm not interested in synths because of how realistic they can be. That being said, I consider "over tuning" the overuse of vocal techniques used for expression, primarily vibrato, growl, vocal fry, and vocal runs. In singing, it's absolutely possible to over sing a song, so I think over tuning can be a fair criticism sometimes. In synths, the one I see most often is overuse of vibrato, and it just ends up making vocals sound really shaky, even if they're intended to be powerful. When I was more involved in singing/performing, the advice that was always given to me was you don't need anything fancy to be a good, emotional singer, and in fact, sometimes all those extra decorations can distract from the emotions you're trying to convey. They should be deliberate decisions, used sparingly for that real impact, and not something you use just because you know how. I think that holds true for vocal synth covers in a way too, but I almost never go out of my way to listen to covers to begin with.
Though I also appreciate over tuning if only for the fact that it keeps the art of self-tuning alive in the midst of AI synths where everything is automated and quite honestly, singers sound much less unique in songs. They sound good and make the process easier, but part of a Vocaloid song for me is recognizing a producer's distinct style, I could always tell which producer it was from how the vocal sounded, even if they tried something completely new in composition.
I guess to continue from there, I feel really conflicted about Gumi on SynthV. Nothing against the VB at all, and I'm really, really happy about this new normal of voices on multiple engines. I think it's just the nail in the coffin that realistic voices and AI isn't really what I am looking for in synths. Don't get me wrong, I own a lot of SynthV VBs and I really enjoy using the engine, same for CeVIO AI and Voicespeak, but as a listener, Gumi V6 and SynthV probably won't be what I think of when I think Gumi for a long time, and they probably won't be my preference in finding Gumi content. I really am that person that is an avid user of AI synths, but will never go out of my way to find content with them because when I'm in the mood to listen to synth music, I want that synth sound.
And a couple Miku-centric ones I've been thinking about: I don't mind the lack of development news on Crypton's end, and I personally don't think Miku really needs any new VB at this point other than for modern PC support. For a lot of other voices, updates are a way of keeping a voice fresh and relevant, but Miku has been so much more than just a synthesized voice for so long. To me, whether or not she gets new VBs won't change my decision to use her or listen to her, she's absolutely still the voice I listen to most and V4X is still a really strong product imo. If NT got more public updates/releases or if Miku got a new VB elsewhere, I'd very, very likely still be interested in buying it, but I'm also just happy with Miku.
And the big one to end it off, I massively prefer Miku Expo as a VR experience than in-person. An in-person concert is a really cool experience, and I think every Miku fan should get the opportunity to see her perform in that setting, but after the first couple times, I think the biggest draw of a concert like that is the community aspect and getting to find other Miku fans. There is only so many ways you can innovate and build off a concert with a fictional star. Seeing Miku in my world is great, but I personally love the creative possibilities of going into Miku's world. I guess I just always loved Project Diva PVs, and a VR Miku concert can really feel like you're being pullled into a PV and watching it all happen around you in a really cool way.
I feel the same way about GUMI AI. It's exciting, but at the same time as a GUMI English user I'm like "DANG IT! My Gumi's even more outdated now! Everyone's gonna expect me to use the new one, ughhh!"
Okay imma share my two cents about Gumi SV here too: I like her but she isn't much better or worse than V6 imo. It's really just Gumi V6 minus the V6 but the SV features. If I'd already own Gumi V6 I wouldn't buy SV. With Popy and Rose SV there seems to be a significant shift in quality... but that doesn't seem to be same for Gumi
I think Gumi Synthv and her Vocaloid versions will continue to have very different usages, especially for English where one will just be the result of xls compared to actually recorded English vowels and consonants. They’ll be so different that saying that one is better than the other would be just wrong, it’ll come down to personal preferences and such
You just said everything I was attempting to say about her but couldn't word omg...
I was a little underwhelmed. Maybe I just had my expectations too high because the SynthV fandom brings so much hype to these engine moves as if other engines are completely dead and this'll become the absolute best, definitive version of a voice, but the only reason I'd be more inclined to get SynthV over V6 is because I already have SynthV's editor.
I'll also add that I might be a minority (at least to the fandom in other platforms) where I don't care about picking sides in some engine war. Competition is healthy, variety is healthy, having a voice on multiple engines benefits the consumer and the company. I'd actually love to see more voices on any engine that isn't SynthV at this point solely because SynthV is starting to feel crowded to me. I can't keep up with all the releases, and quite frankly, a lot of them sound so similar to me that I don't think I care to either. Don't get me wrong, I own a lot of SynthV VBs and even more Vocaloid VBs, and SynthV has a lot of unique voice types on it like Yuma, Asterian, Rose, etc, but I think SynthV as an engine makes the VBs all so similar to work with that they don't have as much unique charm in similar voices like other engines do. I'm happy owning Miku, Rin, Una, and Rana for example because they're all cute, high, and similar enough voices, but each have their own strengths, weaknesses, and quirks to work with.
This is probably not a wild take but,
I really like the blue in Gumi SV boxart!! Color palette wise it works perfectly with her current design from a character design standpoint. I feel like her Vocaloid 6 artwork is specifically so heavy on the orange, yellow, and green that it really breaks it up!! (Red googles would be amazing still! But! It's an improvement!!!)
I really like the blue in Gumi SV boxart!! Color palette wise it works perfectly with her current design from a character design standpoint. I feel like her Vocaloid 6 artwork is specifically so heavy on the orange, yellow, and green that it really breaks it up!! (Red googles would be amazing still! But! It's an improvement!!!)
I like to think that Gumi realized she would finally have a totally liked box art and changed the goggles to mess with people >~> she trolling us… Queen
i am tired of every female vocsynth wearing either a skirt / dress or shorts... daina is the only f vocaloid in proper trousers (not counting fuiro's half pant leg) and for what??