Other Cryptonloid voicebank updates, collabs, & concert news (crypton_wat Twitter translations)

[mobius017]

I'm leaning toward the human character being game-specific, too. If there were a human character related to the Cryptonloids outside of the game, wouldn't it likely require the establishment of some kind of backstory for how the 'loids and the human got together? That would be a reversal of CFM's previous policy of avoiding giving their characters defined personalities/etc. What Amano said ("he have hinted that he afraid of reactions about releasing a human character who has relationship with their vocaloid officially.") could maybe be read as "Wat's afraid that people will interpret the human character as being related to the CFM characters officially, i.e. having a human who is canonically part of their world." I rather hope it's like this, since I don't think I like the idea things being forced into some kind of new narrative. I could easily be wrong and come to like whatever they do, though.

On the other hand, if there were a new human who was officially associated with the Cryptonloids, it might open up interesting things at concerts or other live events. The live interaction stuff would be great for the regular audience (and I still really hope they do something like that), but to keep things a little more controlled, having a human along to interact with the 'loids who is still part of the CFM team would make sense.

 

[cafenurse]

CFM make another character? I didn't even know that was possible at this point. I hope it goes well for them though and they aren't afraid of making more new characters after this.

 

[Blue Of Mind]

I'm really hoping Crypton becomes brave enough to create original Piapro Studio characters. Maybe CV04 could be resurrected this way.

 

[xuu]

Honestly this is way out there, but it would be super cool to see Crypton just come out of nowhere with a new series of vocals for Piapro considering it would be in-house. With the licensing costs being out of the way they'd only have to worry about the production, so maybe it would be cool to do something like that after releasing their current vocals for Piapro.

 

[Prism]

I would like to see them license it out to other companies. I would also like to see cherry pie only voice banks I can see it being really popular in the western market

 

[uncreepy]

Wat's tweet about a Yamaha x Crypton conference:

We will have a discussion on all aspects. People interested in Vocaloids on the outskirts of Sapporo*, please definitely participate! There will even be a behind-the-scenes backstory! On 10/18 (Fri) at 7 PM we will be holding "NoMaps Yamaha x Crypton Vocal Synthesis Technology & Culture Talk Session"!

*Sapporo = City in Hokkaido where Crypton Future Media is located.

=====================================================

Details on the conference:
Note: This took forever to translate, so in this section/the next section, I did not repeat the same information twice in order to save me time. So just consider this entire post the gist.

Source
Note: The URL has "onsei gousei" in it, which means "vocal synthesis".


(This image contains the way to write phonemes in Vocaloid/Piapro. There is no hidden message, it's just in alphabetical order.)

Yamaha x Crypton Vocal Synthesis Technology & Culture Talk Session
~UNESCO Creative Cities Network* Event~

We will talk about the present vocal synthesis that, meets needs and evolves!

Through the development of creative/cultural industry, urban development, culture

Outline
Schedule: 10-18, 2019 (Fri) 7 PM-8:30 PM (Doors open at 6:30)
Venue: Sapporo Cultural Arts Community Center SCARTS
Entrance fee: Free / Recieve that day

Appearing
Yoshida**
Yamaha Corporation / Electronic musical intrument development department / Solution development group
Summary: He made VY1, Sachiko, VOCALOID KEyboard, VOCALOID5 voicebanks/phrase packs (on Google, he also was responsible for ZOLA Project and Fukase).

Wataru Sasaki
Crypton Future Media, Inc.
Hatsune Miku singing synthesis related projects/producer
Summary: He made Miku. Currently preparing to release a new singing software in 2020.

* UNESCO = "United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization" / Aims to build peace internationally through education, science, and culture.
Creative Cities Network = project by UNESCO that aims to promote tourism/urban development through creativity and cultural industries

** I don't know how to read his first name. Not sure if it's Masashi/Masafumi/Masahito or something else. So I will just call him Yoshida.

Note: NoMaps = a convention in Hokkaido for creative development/technology. It's purpose is for people building the future to meet up, spread ideas and technology.
It looks like NoMaps is ran by Hokkaido businesses which includes Crypton.
They are actually having a convention on October 16-20 here called NoMaps2019.

=====================================================

Crypton's blog post summarizing the event:
Source
Yamaha (Hamamatsu) and Crypton (Sapporo) are members of the UNESCO Creative Cities Network. They are driving the Japanese vocal synthesis technology, music, media arts fields. Both Wat and Yoshida, who are in charge of singing and vocal synthesis development are going to talk at the NoMaps conference.

=====================================================

My thoughts:
Geez, a bit short notice, huh? Only a week for people to prepare to go. I hope they give people who can't make it the inside scoop, too.

I'm not sure if this is the news that Crypton said would happen at "the end of the year" or not.

I hope they say that the next generation Piapro will work with Vocaloids. ^^; Or at least they will explain their decisions on how they got to this point (Vocaloid 5 vs new Piapro). I wonder if Yoshida will say what Yamaha plans to do on account of them downsizing their Vocaloid department workers.

 

[peaches2217]

Wow, this IS short notice. That said, I'm excited! I hope the future will be a little clearer after the conference.

 

[mobius017]

This is interesting. At first, I got the idea that Yamaha and CFM would be talking to each other about their future somehow in a public forum, but upon finishing, I think it makes a lot more sense that they're going to be holding a public presentation (or maybe Q&A or panel discussion?) about the current status/future of vocal synths. It seems like the only logical venue for that additional news they mentioned, though it's coming sooner than I expected.

It seems like it would be a little surprising to me if CFM revealed anything TOO sensitive in the same venue as apparent their soon-to-be competitor, but maybe it makes no difference, especially since Yamaha has downsized their synth department.

Though with the arrival of Vocaloid AI, I don't think we can say that Yamaha is out of the vocal synth market. Maybe they're changing business strategies? For example, maybe Yamaha will be licensing out its new Vocaloid AI technology with larger interests rather than individual producers, as they probably did with the Hibari Misora synth. If that's the case, they might not consider CFM to be direct competition anymore. It could even be that they're planning to something really niche, like make synths to revive other departed human performers. I mean, Miku, Tianyi, and probably lots of other synths I'm not thinking of specifically have done promotional stuff with corporate entities, so if we're looking for a business line that completely skirts that competition, being purely about something different like reviving past performers might make sense. (Though I'm not sure how big a business line that could be. I guess they would maybe look to do a long-term relationship, like basically bringing back a performer and continuing their career for years with new albums, touring, etc?)

 

[uncreepy]

I feel like they probably won't have a Q & A section. I think it would be similar to what they did at Magical Mirai, where it was a presentation and then they just left everyone wondering/in shock after it ended. It's only an hour and a half, so I don't know if there's time for questions, they probably know what types of questions people want to ask (the same questions we have) because it seems like Wat keeps up with praise/critique on social media.

It's possible the conversation will be honest, because the discussion is "on all aspects". Maybe they carefully planned what Wat will say about Crypton and what Yoshida will say about Vocaloid.

I really hope someone in the Miku info scene (ex: Eji) goes and shares what they talked about. Or writes a post after or livestreams it or something. ;o;

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

Man, that's short notice. I hope we get more information on Piapro as well as Crypton and Yamaha's relationship going into the future.
(I'm particularly hoping that they'll say Vocaloid 5 vbs will be compatible with the new Piapro, which is probably a "no" since the new Piapro is a seperate vocal synth. But Internet Co. did say they'd be fine with their vbs being imported as long as Crypton makes it possible in the new Piapro... meh. I can dream! XD)

I really hope someone is able to go and then share this information. I'll be anxiously awaiting new info on the future of Vocaloid and the new Piapro. >.>

 

[Exemplar]

@mobius017 To me it sounds like Yamaha could make more money of it's singing and speech synth patents that they would off of releasing an engine and banks. Yamaha having a good relationship with synth makers and not seeing them as rivals would make great business sense.

Yamaha should consider letting go of their third party exclusivity deals for voicebanks early if they want to see those new synths flourish. It would mean the voicebank makers would have to not wait another year for most the v4 bank deals to run down and even longer for AHS, Gynoid and ST Media who have released v5 banks or v4 banks late in that generation.

 

[mobius017]

@mobius017 To me it sounds like Yamaha could make more money of it's singing and speech synth patents that they would off of releasing an engine and banks. Yamaha having a good relationship with synth makers and not seeing them as rivals would make great business sense.

Could be. If I'm understanding you right, it might depend on the terms of them disposing of their patents. Selling a patent would be a one-time cash gain, like selling your car. If they were to license those patents in some way, that would be a continuous inflow of cash, like you hiring yourself/your car out for Uber. (Of course, isn't the latter case essentially what they're doing now?)

So then, it comes down to what they want to do, too--are they looking to exit the vocal synth scene entirely (In which case the former option makes sense.), or will they be staying in? Vocaloid AI implies to me that they'll be staying in in some fashion; I'm just wondering what kind of business model they'll be building around Vocaloid AI.

Edit:
It occurred to me that we could really be talking about two different business areas. First, there's the existing VBs, which I agree, it seems like Yamaha is getting out of, and it probably makes perfect sense for them to sell them. Second, there's Vocaloid AI, which has an as-yet-undefined business model.

 

[uncreepy]

This translation has been sitting around for a while, thankfully the wonderful @RazzyRu (ラゼル) offered to correct my English so I could share this with you all. (I translate by turning Japanese into "Haley English" before converting it into "normal people English". But I wasn't in the mood for the last phase, so I'm glad to have received help. Thanks again, Razzy!)

(I haven't had much time to Tweet, my mind's all mixed up from tuning the new software... The adjustments for the next plan for Meiko to participate in with the Cabinet Office* is being delayed and... orz)

* The Cabinet Office is an agency of the Cabinet of Japan.

Crypton's achievements related to concert technology, creating and using Hatsune Miku, and unconventional exhibits at museums and orchestras; these types of activities for digital content has been recognized by the Red Cross, Japanese Agency for Cultural Affairs, METI (Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry), and Cabinet Office.

Crypton worked with the Cabinet Office for a Chihou Wakamono event before. The event is happening Nov 9th, but I have no clue if Crypton will be there.

Some Japanese users are speculating it is related to the Olympics.

Souces:

クリプトン｜クリプトン開発の新技術で撮影！「BUMP OF CHICKEN×初音ミク」PVで共演

www.crypton.co.jp

クリプトン｜「藍綬褒章」受章のお知らせ

www.crypton.co.jp

2人のクリエーター、電通・菅野氏と初音ミクの生みの親・伊藤氏が登壇8月27日、「地方創生ワカモノ会合 in 札幌」開催へ | ウェブ電通報

Art by KEI / 雪ミク © CFM 「観光で、地域は変わる」をテーマに、「地方創生ワカモノ会合 in 札幌」（主催=内閣官房

dentsu-ho.com

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

Some Japanese users are speculating it is related to the Olympics.

They might not be too off the mark there. I can't find the original tweet right now, but supposedly the Tokyo Olympics twitter made a video post with a Miku song playing in the background, so maybe it could have been a teaser. But, hey, that's just my tinfoil hat theory; I don't have any real evidence, only speculation.
(There was a fanmade poll a while back of performers that people would like to see at the 2020 olympics, and Miku was winning so maybe they saw it and took that into account? Just my two cents.)

 

[Trevor]

Given the global presence of Miku and Japan's public image surrounding technology and aesthetics, its extremely possible Japan might ask Miku to perform as a publicity stunt. She's one of Japan's most iconic "artist" on the global market right now.

 

[uncreepy]

I can't translate everything, I have to leave for work. (Be back in about 5 hours.)

This is what I have so far. I saw that Eji wrote a thread about the event. However, it was kind of disappointing, because apparently a lot of info was shared during Magical Mirai and most of it is about the history of Vocaloid.

The summary is not word for word, because the details aren't THAT juicy (in my humble opinion). So I'm sorry that it sounds like vague bullet points.

^ this is the tweet thread the info is from

Yoshida talked first.

Talked about all fundamental VOCALOID products and the history of VOCALOID.

They made many versions of VOCALOID, like cloud version, keyboard, mobile, they even made one that wasn't only for PC (such as a version of Playstation 2).

Wat used to be in the ringtone (for phones) department. They wanted to make a Japanese VOCALOID after having made English ones.

They were worried that if Miku sells well and then Rin comes out, the two would compete. Doing English meant 5x the phonemes.

Made Appends for diversification of tone of voice (dark, calm). Worked on voice technology that wasn't only vocal synthesis. There was a demo video.

There's an unpublished effector explanation video (it was at Magical Mirai, just not on YouTube), real-time growl, power changer, change reading of vowel succession, voice changer so you can sound like Miku...

The technology Yamaha developed 20 years ago hadn't changed much but got a bit easier to handle due to computing power.

Video site culture, the span of creations broadening, collabing with major artists, development realting to virtual concerts.

Yoshida talked about "How long does it take to make a VOCALOID?" If plan goes good, about 3 months...

Rather than the product, the concept takes the most time. Have to agree about many nuances.

Recording is hard, the director has to preserve the image they had in mind. Have to be careful to work well with the voice actors.

They wanted Miku to have a certain voice quality and that is was clearly pronounced.

They made VY1 to be a standard instrument rather than a character-type.

Made Appends to obtain various voice quality variations.

English versions got updated a lot through trial and error. It was hard to voice actors to maintain tension (whatever that means) in an hour. (The mentioned "project if...")

Cyber Diva's English dictionary was huge (100,00 items?).

Roots of Miku's planning period, before she was released, VOCALOID's status before it got big on YouTube/Nico nico, about the project type, test recordings. Trying to market the product to shops.

Trying to tell voice actors to relax has the opposite effect.

Wat's the type to get nervous (thinking about when they recorded Rin/Len).

Wat talked about personal experience relating to irl interractions involving Vocaloid music.

 

[uncreepy]

I will go back and finish translating Eji's tweets later, but I wanted a break and found a 2nd person who tweeted about the event. I got half done with their tweet thread, so here it is so far:

Photography/recording was prohibited.

VOCALOID got developed in 2000, VOCALOID 1 came out in 2004.

It wasn't popular at the time. The person being recorded had to say nonsensical words (a da i da) and it was boring. They didn't have to do that anymore after upgrading expression, VST support, and upgrading the UI.

Worked on Vocaloid Keyboard and improved the library for real time use.

They are making educational use products. Since programming is a popular subject now, why not use it with music?

When Vocaloid came out, DTM (desktop midi musicians) weren't popular.

English Vocaloid came out first. Then MEIKO and other Japanese ones were next.

At that time, Yamaha was making a chipset for mobile phone sounds and it ended up being related to Vocaloid development.

Yamaha had a diverse business, but Vocaloid was different. Yamaha didn't sell much Vocaloids, because people thought that instruments are tangible things. So they started working with Crypton.

Vocaloid's rise was influenced by Nico Nico.

Miku's design was meant to be a normal high school girl who could sing.

They were worried about the impact of releasing additional Cryptonloids. They thought if they sold Rin alone, it wouldn't make an impact. So they sold Rin and Len as a set.

The labor of making an English version was 5x that of a Japanese Vocaloid.

Middle school and high school students had a demand for a dark or soft voice that wasn't just cheery. So they started researching a human voice who can produce various voices.

 

[hamano]

So apparently they've been tweaking the 3d models of Miku and Meiko for a project for next year, Wat says it's not Project Sekai-related, but a different project. The model pictured is created by YYB, and is based on the Tsumi-type Meiko MMD model. New info about where the 3d models will be used is possibly coming next week.

(Note I didn't try to translate the tweet word-to-word, so I won't guarantee 100% accuracy, but I think that's what the content of his tweet essentially was ).

 

[peaches2217]

My queen is SLAYING.

 

[Scarlet Illusion]

Meiko is looking fabulous! Loving the model!