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Other Cryptonloid voicebank updates, collabs, & concert news (crypton_wat Twitter translations)

kimiworld

New Fan
Jul 11, 2018
10
Pokemon feat. Hatsune Miku Project Voltage
I think it is quite a good news, I mean although it is not Project DIVA but at least there is a new project collaboration! I quite wonder what kind of project will it be, whether it will be a new game collab, or new songs collab, or maybe something else?

regarding Miku NT update, I think they'll talk a bit tomorrow and in the next days during the talk sessions at Magical Mirai in Tokyo ^^
I think regarding this we might need to wait and see. Also I think it is better for us to avoid giving any high expectations although they might announce NT-related stuff at Magical Mirai, because I have a feeling that they might just give some speech here and there, and then that's it.
 
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Leon

AKA missy20201 (Elliot)
Apr 8, 2018
996
I hope there is more. As someone who never really got super into Pokemon, if the only other thing for Miku's sweet 16 is a meh QOL Piapro update, that's kind of disappointing...
 

MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,518
Sapporo
I think it is quite a good news, I mean although it is not Project DIVA but at least there is a new project collaboration! I quite wonder what kind of project will it be, whether it will be a new game collab, or new songs collab, or maybe something else?

I think regarding this we might need to wait and see. Also I think it is better for us to avoid giving any high expectations although they might announce NT-related stuff at Magical Mirai, because I have a feeling that they might just give some speech here and there, and then that's it.
the home page doesn't give many details, but seems like a collaboration project about illustrations, songs and music videos, which is good for any future goods or some kind of appearance in future games/anime episodes. The fact that Crypton could make a collaboration with Nintendo for Pokemon is very important.

we also know that with SEGA there is a big project under development, and the Project Diva series producer said that he wants the new title to come out naturally, so it might take some time.
and about Magical Mirai, yes there are some planned talking sessions with Sonicwire and Crypton staff, they'll probably showcase the recent update and confirm that the next update will be released in 6 months from now, you're correct that probably there will be only small details, but those talk sessions are always interesting ^^
 

wrong_thyme

femboy gackpo rights
Jan 12, 2022
90
i don't know what i was expecting but I'm still disappointed


ofc, part of that is me never getting into pokemon and also not caring much for 'miku x whatever' collabs in general

on the other part, I'm so beyond frustrated with crypton putting out a subpar product compared to literally everything else on the market, ghosting the consumers for a year and coming back with a halfassed "we'll do a real update in 15378 months we swear"

if any other company pulled this they'd be rightfully clowned on by everybody but since they're The Miku Guys, they're effectively too big to fail so they don't even try any more, it seems 🙄
 

mobius017

Aspiring ∞ Creator
Apr 8, 2018
2,012
i don't know what i was expecting but I'm still disappointed


ofc, part of that is me never getting into pokemon and also not caring much for 'miku x whatever' collabs in general

on the other part, I'm so beyond frustrated with crypton putting out a subpar product compared to literally everything else on the market, ghosting the consumers for a year and coming back with a halfassed "we'll do a real update in 15378 months we swear"

if any other company pulled this they'd be rightfully clowned on by everybody but since they're The Miku Guys, they're effectively too big to fail so they don't even try any more, it seems 🙄
I think this sentiment shows just how much goodwill and hype CFM had when they announced the development of NT. Probably nobody else could've made that announcement and generated as much excitement or as high a level of expectation. Subsequently, that naturally led to this honestly tragic level of fallout when things really didn't work out, some of the reasons for which were within their control, and some of which probably weren't.

I'm not a marketing person, but I sort of feel like less communication is more at this point. The best thing to do would be to take NT back into the shop, really polish it and test it until it's flawless (and do the same for any new desired features that get added at that time), and only then make a big announcement of a new version, with enough demo material that there's no doubt of what it can do; heck, livestream someone using it!

There's an argument for maintaining public awareness, but I don't think they really need that at this point. Worry about public awareness once all the above stuff is handled.

Honestly, I really do want an incredible NT product that can become my new go-to incarnation of Miku. That's really what most EVERYONE who's disappointed wants, if they were actually going to/did buy the software. And I think the level of goodwill will be there, even after a period of silence, provided that people aren't recurringly reminded of how bad they feel.
 
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MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,518
Sapporo
I understand why some fans might feel disappointed, but let's not forget some things:
- Wataru Sasaki during the NT announcement made it clear that it wasn't an easy path for them, but it was needed. It was simply that Vocaloid of Yamaha was moving in a direction different from Crypton.
- wat-san is responsible for everything regarding Miku, both the software side and the collaboration with other companies. And he's not a PR person, so what he says is what truly is. If the next update is in 6 months from now, he says it.
- Crypton is not the size of a corporation like Yamaha, and so can't have that kind of resources. Some of you might be surprised to know the difference in size between Crypton and Yamaha. And just recently Crypton hired a few more staff for Piapro Studio UI, and they also renewed the office space a little. Everything takes time, and is normal during a development that there are some delays and changes.
- Crypton keeps supporting previous versions of Vocaloid, and for NT they are doing their best, and is not fair to compare them with other voice synth companies when it comes to software development. They can't take risks others might take, the user base and the number of songs made with Miku and all Piapro characters is just different.
 

kimiworld

New Fan
Jul 11, 2018
10
I understand why some fans might feel disappointed, but let's not forget some things:
- Wataru Sasaki during the NT announcement made it clear that it wasn't an easy path for them, but it was needed. It was simply that Vocaloid of Yamaha was moving in a direction different from Crypton.
- wat-san is responsible for everything regarding Miku, both the software side and the collaboration with other companies. And he's not a PR person, so what he says is what truly is. If the next update is in 6 months from now, he says it.
- Crypton is not the size of a corporation like Yamaha, and so can't have that kind of resources. Some of you might be surprised to know the difference in size between Crypton and Yamaha. And just recently Crypton hired a few more staff for Piapro Studio UI, and they also renewed the office space a little. Everything takes time, and is normal during a development that there are some delays and changes.
- Crypton keeps supporting previous versions of Vocaloid, and for NT they are doing their best, and is not fair to compare them with other voice synth companies when it comes to software development. They can't take risks others might take, the user base and the number of songs made with Miku and all Piapro characters is just different.
I think at this point, no matter how much difficulties or obstacles that they have encountered and explained to us, we need to admit that the NT-related stuff is subpar and underdeveloped. Once the company released the Piapro NT Studio they should bear any consequences associated with it. Do not forget that the ones who suffer the most at the end of the day are those who purchased and used the software, and they have the full right to criticize the company for the product.
 

mobius017

Aspiring ∞ Creator
Apr 8, 2018
2,012
I understand why some fans might feel disappointed, but let's not forget some things:
- Wataru Sasaki during the NT announcement made it clear that it wasn't an easy path for them, but it was needed. It was simply that Vocaloid of Yamaha was moving in a direction different from Crypton.
- wat-san is responsible for everything regarding Miku, both the software side and the collaboration with other companies. And he's not a PR person, so what he says is what truly is. If the next update is in 6 months from now, he says it.
- Crypton is not the size of a corporation like Yamaha, and so can't have that kind of resources. Some of you might be surprised to know the difference in size between Crypton and Yamaha. And just recently Crypton hired a few more staff for Piapro Studio UI, and they also renewed the office space a little. Everything takes time, and is normal during a development that there are some delays and changes.
- Crypton keeps supporting previous versions of Vocaloid, and for NT they are doing their best, and is not fair to compare them with other voice synth companies when it comes to software development. They can't take risks others might take, the user base and the number of songs made with Miku and all Piapro characters is just different.
Some of this is a little conjecture on my part, since my info is the same as anyone else's. But this post reminded me of a few things, too.

To begin with, CFM is involved with a lot of different areas, but until they started work on NT, I don't believe they worked directly on creating a vocal synth engine from the ground up. They would have worked with Yamaha in some capacity during the development of the Cryptonloids, but that work would have relied on the vocal synth engine that Yamaha had already created. Which I assume, since Yamaha basically invented it, they did at their leisure and released when it was as ready as they wanted.

Why NT was created/released in the timeframe it was, I couldn't tell you. The vocal synth market was getting much more crowded then, and apparently there was some reason that it was decided that it was best to start making the transition to a Yamaha-independent engine at that point based on some knowledge of Yamaha's plans. We'll probably never know all the details, so it's hard to second-guess those decisions--perhaps they were good, perhaps something could have been done better.

Second, technology only looks like magic when it works. I've had the opportunity to interact with technologists from a number of fields at various times, and the truth is this: there is no magic. When tech works, it can be smooth and seamless. When it doesn't, it can be infuriating, inflexible, and impenetrably obtuse. Anyone who has struggled with their computer, dvd/blu-ray player, Alexa, or what have you will have some familiarity with this. A second bit of truth is that it's little different for the tech workers who work with it daily. Sure, they have hopefully been taught the principles of how to work with whatever it is (although often not; it's basically a given that they'll have to learn on-the-fly by doing and figuring stuff out, even if that just means filling in all the things that wouldn't get included in a class), but everything beyond that is experience--learning how to work with the platform they have available and avoid all the little gotchas that are part of creating in that world. Because, remember, the platform they're working with was created by people, too, so it's not perfect, either.

The number of people with first-hand experience creating a vocal synth engine from scratch must be very small. And even for one of them, I imagine the task of trying to do that on their own would have been quite daunting, since Yamaha probably had a team of people doing the job, each working on their own individual parts. To take any one/a few of them and ask them to recreate the whole would be a large ask.

- Crypton keeps supporting previous versions of Vocaloid, and for NT they are doing their best, and is not fair to compare them with other voice synth companies when it comes to software development. They can't take risks others might take, the user base and the number of songs made with Miku and all Piapro characters is just different.
NT's compatibility with the Vocaloid-based stuff is something I've noticed since the NT page appeared on Sonicwire. CFM seems to have gone to a bit of trouble to try to create continuity between the older generation and the new one:
  • Maintaining the working relationship with Yamaha (compatibility isn't necessarily the only reason for this, but it might be part of it)
  • The fact that NT can use VSQx files
  • NT's continuing use of X-SAMPA
NT is basically being asked to be a new-built engine that doesn't lean on Vocaloid that achieves improved results while still being able to work with the outputs of things created with Vocaloid. Otherwise, the new platform would basically wipe the slate and relegate all the Vocaloid-based content to legacy status. For whatever difference it makes, it's also continuing to use the original Miku samples. That seems to me like something of a tall ask, as well. We can argue for/against the merits of this backwards compatibility, but I think there's some merit to not wanting to trash those 16 years of vocal synth content, as well as leave cover artists with only the option of creating stuff from scratch. On the flip side, that does mean that I'd guess the software will probably never convert to using Arpabet exclusively; possibly it could be made bilingual somehow?

Having said all that, a lot of people feel understandably disappointed. It's a dear wish of mine that the platform will enjoy a turnaround and develop into what we hoped it would be. My primary focus is really on hoping to see that happen and how it can happen without stirring up the negative feelings that accompany each small announcement like this. Because I really don't know enough to second-guess the various decisions that were made along the way, nor do I particularly want to dwell mentally in that space.
 

Yuenos

empty in the head
Jul 26, 2021
3
Brazil
I have to say how much I admire how patient and positive some of you guys are when it comes to NT, because as a fan who's been here since 2009, it breaks my heart to see another 31/08 pass and absolutely nothing relevant is done to save Miku's voice from oblivion.

What I think people forget quite often, and that is really important for understanding how Crypton chooses to be absent sometimes, is the fact that Piapro Studio was first released back in the KaitoV3 days. So Crypton has had the upper hand for their own soft since 2013! There was plenty of time to have a useful product by now, which NT definitely is not. And even before that, Crypton had been active in vocaloid development when vocaloid 1 was still a thing. They own the very first Japanese vocaloids in history. So how can a corporation that not only shares most of its history with OG vocaloid developers but also has been responsible for the most influential vocaloid of all time be considered small or unprepared to deal with creating a vocal synth software from scratch?

I believe that, in reality, Crypton was never able to keep up. They were just lucky that their marketing team was good. Look at the Rin/Len Act 1 fiasco and how Act 2 failed miserably to provide voices that weren't choppy at best. Look at Luka V2's English and how 'roadroller' became the joke of the century. Look at Meiko V3 and how bland every single one of her voicebanks sounds to this very day. Look at any of Miku's bilingual voicebanks. And now, NT. I understand that Crypton isn't as big as Yamaha, but neither were AHS or Internet Co., and they are still here, bringing updates for their characters and keeping the producer community alive.

It really breaks my heart to see vocal synthesizing software enter its golden years with AI while Crypton makes no effort to be part of it and instead chooses to make irrelevant marketing deals slapping Miku's name on random objects and calling it a day (yes, officially licensed Miku's nail trimmers, I'm looking at you). Every single day there's something new on the market; it's 2011 all over again, but better! Hyperrealistic voices that are fluent in every language. Speaking and singing models that can be done by anyone in the comfort of their homes using their own voices. Indie developers are coming up with new ways to work with vocal sampling. And amongst all this, we get a Miku x Pokemon collaboration?

Like, are we a joke for crypton or something?

Miku was supposed to be a leading force in the vocal synth community. But Crypton prefers to sell her fanbase to the highest bidder instead of improving their product. And that is a fact that hurts. We've seen Miku perform in ice blocks, projected in the clouds, in the water, alongside Lady Gaga, inside symphony halls, on virtual reality, everywhere you can imagine Miku has been. But what is the point of all this if the people who make her sing do not have the proper tools to do so? I'm 100% sure no one will show up to Suntory Hall in Tokyo with a Miku song rendered in NT. A trumpet solo would do a better job at this point. So I don't understand why Crypton isn't taking this seriously.
 

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Blue Of Mind

The world that I do not know...
Apr 8, 2018
717
Unless Crypton ever gets bought out by a larger company that's willing to push them towards modernising their character VBs, I doubt we'll ever see something really exciting like Miku AI on the horizon. I've said before they remind me more and more of modern Game Freak (ironic considering the Miku x Pokemon collab going on right now) - they own extremely profitable IPs that would benefit greatly from larger studios, yet they still try to operate like small companies or indies when they should be long past their humble origins. (It's also disconcerting to see the Miku/Crypton fandom behave more like the current Pokemon fandom, or even the Sonic fandom just a decade ago).
 

Chuchu

Luka enthusiast
Jul 18, 2018
83
I have to say how much I admire how patient and positive some of you guys are when it comes to NT, because as a fan who's been here since 2009, it breaks my heart to see another 31/08 pass and absolutely nothing relevant is done to save Miku's voice from oblivion.

What I think people forget quite often, and that is really important for understanding how Crypton chooses to be absent sometimes, is the fact that Piapro Studio was first released back in the KaitoV3 days. So Crypton has had the upper hand for their own soft since 2013! There was plenty of time to have a useful product by now, which NT definitely is not. And even before that, Crypton had been active in vocaloid development when vocaloid 1 was still a thing. They own the very first Japanese vocaloids in history. So how can a corporation that not only shares most of its history with OG vocaloid developers but also has been responsible for the most influential vocaloid of all time be considered small or unprepared to deal with creating a vocal synth software from scratch?

I believe that, in reality, Crypton was never able to keep up. They were just lucky that their marketing team was good. Look at the Rin/Len Act 1 fiasco and how Act 2 failed miserably to provide voices that weren't choppy at best. Look at Luka V2's English and how 'roadroller' became the joke of the century. Look at Meiko V3 and how bland every single one of her voicebanks sounds to this very day. Look at any of Miku's bilingual voicebanks. And now, NT. I understand that Crypton isn't as big as Yamaha, but neither were AHS or Internet Co., and they are still here, bringing updates for their characters and keeping the producer community alive.

It really breaks my heart to see vocal synthesizing software enter its golden years with AI while Crypton makes no effort to be part of it and instead chooses to make irrelevant marketing deals slapping Miku's name on random objects and calling it a day (yes, officially licensed Miku's nail trimmers, I'm looking at you). Every single day there's something new on the market; it's 2011 all over again, but better! Hyperrealistic voices that are fluent in every language. Speaking and singing models that can be done by anyone in the comfort of their homes using their own voices. Indie developers are coming up with new ways to work with vocal sampling. And amongst all this, we get a Miku x Pokemon collaboration?

Like, are we a joke for crypton or something?

Miku was supposed to be a leading force in the vocal synth community. But Crypton prefers to sell her fanbase to the highest bidder instead of improving their product. And that is a fact that hurts. We've seen Miku perform in ice blocks, projected in the clouds, in the water, alongside Lady Gaga, inside symphony halls, on virtual reality, everywhere you can imagine Miku has been. But what is the point of all this if the people who make her sing do not have the proper tools to do so? I'm 100% sure no one will show up to Suntory Hall in Tokyo with a Miku song rendered in NT. A trumpet solo would do a better job at this point. So I don't understand why Crypton isn't taking this seriously.
CFM does deserve their fair share of criticism for their handling of NT, but I just want to clarify some misconceptions. Their main function was to find other companies (Powerfx & Zero-G) who would be on board to develop English DBs during the V1 era and to commercially distribute them. That was all the collaboration between Yamaha and CFM was about, they had zero involvement in the development of Meiko V1 & Kaito V1, or the Vocaloid engine for that matter. They just owned the character design of Meiko and Kaito.

The V2 era was probably the first time CFM even got a Vocaloid dev kit in their hands if there was no Luka V3 scenario with Miku then.

And during the V3&V4 era, CFM had to pay Yamaha to use the Vocaloid API so that they could bundle it as Piapro Studio with their DBs. Sure, they tried to create some custom features with Evec, but they still worked with the dev kit Yamaha provided them.

NT is literally their first try at creating their own engine. It might be incorrect, but I remembered reading somewhere that they just began working on NT after they were done with V4X and their growing dissatisfaction with V5, so the dev time couldn't be that long before they released Miku NT in 2020. It's understandable that it can take years to develop a somewhat functional engine, especially for the first iteration, but it's CFM's own fault for releasing Piapro & Miku NT too soon.

But their timing is also unfortunate, in my opinion. They released NT when standard voicebanks were still... well the standard not long ago, but now with Ai they would have to overhaul the Piapro NT engine completely.

Tin foil hat time: Maybe the big update in 6 months that Wat mentioned will have Piapro NT compatible with AI. Like, go the Una V6 and Zola V6 route to make the AI Cryptonloids sound as faithful as possible to their std DBs counterparts. They should do the "buy the standard NT voicebanks and get the AI version for free" if they want to win some goodwill from their customer base again and not waste all the effort put into the standard banks. I know that many producers still use and like standard voicebanks but right now there's no demand for new commercial std banks.

Maaaybe they could collaborate with Sega and develop an NT version of the project Sekai characters. It would make sense because Crypton needs something else besides their loids to get a good chunk of the overcrowded synth market now. They have a good relationship with Sega and the characters are popular whose NT version can be incorporated into the game back.

It could attract other companies who want to develop voicebanks for Piapro NT in the future.

Will such a scenario happen? Probably not but many things happened that weren't on my vocal synth bingo card this year.
 
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Herohero

New Fan
Sep 3, 2023
7
Sp
The team in charge of the vocal synthesis software is not involved in animation (they're not artists), that's Graphics India's job andthe Crypton CEO is just overseeing it. Crypton has several departments for different duties, but they're always up to multiple things at once (ex: apps, collabs, software, concerts, etc).



I would say Beef Jerky was a personal project (the vocoder for iPhone using corpus voices). Cherry Pie got at least 1 award and had more than 1 poster presentation, so it seems like a waste to go through the trouble of making Miku, Len, and Rin compatible with it, then just casting it aside. I would've thought they would at least use it for concerts and collab audio, but they haven't seemed to touch it since?


(Sorry for being negative about Crypton today, I'm just annoyed.)
Speaking of Cherry Pie, whatever happened to that thing?

I feel like Yamaha bought that technology from Crypton and integrated it into V6 with their Vocalochanger feature. Notice how we never got anything related to Cherry Pie even now.
 

MagicalMiku

♡Miku♡
Apr 13, 2018
1,518
Sapporo
pretty nice important news :miku_ani_lili::luka_lili::len_smile_lili::rin_smile_lIlI::kaito_ani_lili::meiko_ani_lili:
As of Monday, July 1, 2024, we have repackaged our singing voice synthesis software products, including Hatsune Miku, Kagamine Rin, Kagamine Len, Megurine Luka, MEIKO and KAITO✨

In 2024, Crypton will be celebrating its 20th anniversary of the singing voice synthesis software business, and we are preparing to release even more new products by the end of the year...!
Please stay tuned for further updates ♪
new products announcements next month, August 1st, from Sonicwire blog:
Crypton Future Media, Inc. has repackaged its six current singing voice synthesis software products as of Monday, July 1, 2024. With the repackaging, the DAW software included with each product has been changed to Steinberg's "Cubase LE" .

In addition, the two titles being repackaged this time, "Hatsune Miku V4X" and "Kagamine Rin & Len V4X," will come standard with the English voice library, which was previously sold separately, while keeping the price the same.

As part of the repackaging, the corresponding English voice library will be provided free of charge for a limited time to users who purchase the standard versions of "Hatsune Miku V4X" or "Kagamine Rin & Len V4X" on SONICWIRE after July 1, 2023, or who have registered a license on the EC Crypton site.
In conjunction with the repackaging, we will be distributing a 4,000 yen discount coupon that can be used for shopping at SONICWIRE to users who purchase the Hatsune Miku V4X Bundle or Kagamine Rin & Len V4X Bundle on SONICWIRE or register a license on the EC Crypton site between Monday, April 1, 2024 and Monday, July 15, 2024.

In addition, we plan to offer special prices on the new products to users who own Crypton virtual singer software products that use VOCALOID3 (V3) or VOCALOID4 (V4).

The installation media for each packaged version has been changed from DVD-ROM to a download card, making it easier for those who do not have an optical drive to install.

We are sure that the singing voices of the newly dressed Hatsune Miku will continue to accompany your creative endeavors!

Crypton will celebrate its 20th anniversary of the singing voice synthesis software business in 2024, and is preparing to release more new products this year. We plan to announce new products on Thursday, August 1, 2024.
I think there will be hands-on demo and session talks during Magical Mirai in Fukuoka, Tokyo and Osaka(●'◡'●)🎁🎈
 
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Vector

Passionate Fan
Mar 6, 2022
142
Going back to Cubase, interesting. Bundling a DAW definitely is beneficial to the DAW vendor...I was using Reaper before buying Miku, and I ended up buying the full version of the bundled Presonus Studio One, because I liked it that much. (It's also a fraction of the price of Ableton.)

I get the impression that Cubase is fairly popular in Japan, though less so in the west these days, among hobbyists at least. I do see Dr Mix and some other music-related YouTube personalities using it a bit.

Simplifying the EN/JP bank sales is also a great move.
 

Chuchu

Luka enthusiast
Jul 18, 2018
83
Got Rin/Len V4X English from the promo and I noticed that my Miku NT version is also labelled as discontinued like my Rin/Len V4X registration.

Rin/Len makes sense because they'll be replaced but Crypton either messed up the Miku NT listing or they might announce a new Miku NT & Piapro NT version on the 1st august that will replaced the current one.

Or they'll give up on NT and migrate to Vocaloid 6/SynthV/Cevio AI/Voisona/etc. which is doubtful. (Ngl, I'd be pretty salty if it happens because I bought Miku NT with the expectation that she'll be regularly updated and become a decent Std bank lol)
Screenshot_20240702-020940~2.png
 

WyndReed

Dareka tasukete!
Apr 8, 2018
327
26
???, New York
As much as I’d miss the vbs being on a disc in the physical packages, the english vbs in the bundles were already download only. I guess you could always burn the vbs to a disc, stick it in a jewel case, and put it in the package to get the same effect.
Edit: Now if only they’d sell Miku’s V3 English vb as a standalone download. You still have to hunt down a Miku V3 bundle package if you want it, which is really ridiculous.
 
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Leon

AKA missy20201 (Elliot)
Apr 8, 2018
996
My only problem with the move to download versions that a lot of things and companies are moving to, is that if/when the site sever goes down, so does the product. No more picking old software up at a yard sale from 30 years ago and installing it anyway, it's just gone unless you can find an archive somewhere. It kills me. I burn all my download stuff to a disc
 

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